Hive Novel Discourse

	Main Index Search Register Login Who's Online FAQ Links
	Main Index Search Register Login Who's Online FAQ Links

	1 Online, 0 Active		You are not logged in

This is a historical archiveThe forum is read-only. Private information has been removed. It is not possible to login.

	Novel Discourse

All 5 posts Subject: Possible new GHB synthesis starting from MSG Please login to post Down

wolff_kishner
(Stranger)
06-22-04 05:08
No 514731
      Possible new GHB synthesis starting from MSG

SWIM proposes a possible new method to GHB using simple reactions and OTC chemicals. The starting precursor, is monosodium glutamate, more commonly known as MSG, easily available in any grocery store. Sodium hypochlorite is available as bleach, and aluminum isopropoxide can be made from mercury, aluminum, and isopropanol, all available OTC.

This is a very preliminary guide; nothing beyond the basic reactions are given. SWIM wants to know if there is anything that will cause the following to not work properly.

Note that SWIM leaves the sodium salt as-is. This is because he figures that the Meerwein et al. Reduction would deprotonate the acid anyway due to the strongly basic conditions, so there is no reason to acidify the sodium salt of the resulting aldehyde-acid created through the Strecker degradation. SWIM does not know if the sodium salt will dissolve satisfactorily in the isopropanol for the Meerwein reduction, but figures that it probably dissolves to some extent.

Any thoughts on this or any other aspects of this proposal would be greatly appreciated.

Step #1: Monosodium glutamate is converted into an aldehyde with one fewer carbon atom using sodium hypochlorite (Strecker Degradation)

NaOOC-(CH₂)₂CH(NH₂)COOH + NaOCl --------> NaOOC-(CH₂)₂CHO

Step #2: The resulting aldehyde is reduced to GHB using aluminum isopropoxide dissolved in isopropanol (Meerwein-Pondorf-Verley reduction)

NaOOC-(CH₂)₂CHO + CH₃CHCH₃ ---(Al[OCH₃CHCH₃]₃)----> NaOOC-(CH₂)₃OH

If anyone can point out errors, oversights, or improvements, that would be greatly appreciated.

pericles
(Hive Bee)
06-22-04 22:45
No 514844
      UTFSE

This idea was discussed pretty throughly starting here Post 364034 (Chromic: "msg -> ghb?", Chemistry Discourse).

ApprenticeCook
(Hive Bee)
06-23-04 02:38
No 514878
      Yes it has been covered in that thread but it...

Yes it has been covered in that thread but it didnt end up being answered... if you read the thread it ends with:
Chromic: So, I gather we're all pretty sure that there's no easy way to decarboxylate MSG?
And no-one answered chromic on it....

GABA and GBL are long gone hopes in oz as they are no class 1 substances... if msg could be used with the above method (doubtfull, seems too simple....) or the nitrous acid method mentioned in the linked thread it would be excellent...

Could someone please give a sum up final comment on msg use for reactions to form ghb/gaba?
Work or not?

-AC

Its just my opinion, but no-one listens to me anyway, and rightly so...

wolff_kishner
(Stranger)
06-23-04 03:33
No 514892
      Re:UTFSE

This idea was discussed pretty throughly starting here Post 364034 (Chromic: "msg -> ghb?", Chemistry Discourse).

No, it hasn't been throughly discussed. The post you supplied proposes a completely different method to convert MSG into GHB and is therefore not relevant to this method. There is no nitrous acid deamination involved in this reaction, only a strecker degradation and an aluminum isopropoxide reduction.

fierceness
(Hive Addict)
06-23-04 23:10
No 515059
      Not to be an echo, but he's right.

Not to be an echo, but he's right. The aforementioned reaction was a msg->gbl reaction, but it used nitric acid.

	https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org	the-hive@erowid.org



Powered by Australian Embassies v2.00, 2019. Protected by U.S. and international laws.
Links Erowid Rhodium

	All 5 posts		Subject: Possible new GHB synthesis starting from MSG		Please login to post		Down


		wolff_kishner (Stranger) 06-22-04 05:08 No 514731				Possible new GHB synthesis starting from MSG
						SWIM proposes a possible new method to GHB using simple reactions and OTC chemicals. The starting precursor, is monosodium glutamate, more commonly known as MSG, easily available in any grocery store. Sodium hypochlorite is available as bleach, and aluminum isopropoxide can be made from mercury, aluminum, and isopropanol, all available OTC. This is a very preliminary guide; nothing beyond the basic reactions are given. SWIM wants to know if there is anything that will cause the following to not work properly. Note that SWIM leaves the sodium salt as-is. This is because he figures that the Meerwein et al. Reduction would deprotonate the acid anyway due to the strongly basic conditions, so there is no reason to acidify the sodium salt of the resulting aldehyde-acid created through the Strecker degradation. SWIM does not know if the sodium salt will dissolve satisfactorily in the isopropanol for the Meerwein reduction, but figures that it probably dissolves to some extent. Any thoughts on this or any other aspects of this proposal would be greatly appreciated. Step #1: Monosodium glutamate is converted into an aldehyde with one fewer carbon atom using sodium hypochlorite (Strecker Degradation) NaOOC-(CH₂)₂CH(NH₂)COOH + NaOCl --------> NaOOC-(CH₂)₂CHO Step #2: The resulting aldehyde is reduced to GHB using aluminum isopropoxide dissolved in isopropanol (Meerwein-Pondorf-Verley reduction) NaOOC-(CH₂)₂CHO + CH₃CHCH₃ ---(Al[OCH₃CHCH₃]₃)----> NaOOC-(CH₂)₃OH If anyone can point out errors, oversights, or improvements, that would be greatly appreciated.



		pericles (Hive Bee) 06-22-04 22:45 No 514844				UTFSE
						This idea was discussed pretty throughly starting here Post 364034 (Chromic: "msg -> ghb?", Chemistry Discourse).



		ApprenticeCook (Hive Bee) 06-23-04 02:38 No 514878				Yes it has been covered in that thread but it...
						Yes it has been covered in that thread but it didnt end up being answered... if you read the thread it ends with: Chromic: So, I gather we're all pretty sure that there's no easy way to decarboxylate MSG? And no-one answered chromic on it.... GABA and GBL are long gone hopes in oz as they are no class 1 substances... if msg could be used with the above method (doubtfull, seems too simple....) or the nitrous acid method mentioned in the linked thread it would be excellent... Could someone please give a sum up final comment on msg use for reactions to form ghb/gaba? Work or not? -AC Its just my opinion, but no-one listens to me anyway, and rightly so...



		wolff_kishner (Stranger) 06-23-04 03:33 No 514892				Re:UTFSE
						This idea was discussed pretty throughly starting here Post 364034 (Chromic: "msg -> ghb?", Chemistry Discourse). No, it hasn't been throughly discussed. The post you supplied proposes a completely different method to convert MSG into GHB and is therefore not relevant to this method. There is no nitrous acid deamination involved in this reaction, only a strecker degradation and an aluminum isopropoxide reduction.



		fierceness (Hive Addict) 06-23-04 23:10 No 515059				Not to be an echo, but he's right.
						Not to be an echo, but he's right. The aforementioned reaction was a msg->gbl reaction, but it used nitric acid.

All 5 posts	End of thread	Top