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All 21 posts Subject: Ghetto FB extraction w/ 80% + returns Please login to post Down

evilscripter69
(Hive Bee)
10-10-04 00:57
No 535119
User Picture       Ghetto FB extraction w/ 80% + returns

how does 12.5 g. FB return from 6/20 ct generic 120's sound ?
also tested on 60's with chlor and or trip, as well as highly gakked red hots.
follow directions closely because too much NH3 will fuck it up, causing a large yeild loss
This is a variation on the Tetra Trap method and has also been very successful using only sodium carbonate without TCE,although this required adding a small amount of NH3 when the pillmass started to clump while heating,only add enough to make it pasty again a spray bottle on mist setting works best
the pills can be combined with same results
#1combine all the pills with an equal amount of sodium carbonate and grind to a fine powder in a heavy duty coffee grinder or blender. let it sit for 5 minutes
#2place pillmass in visionware/corningware casserole dish,spray a small amount of TCE into it, enough to slightly wetten the pillmass,it should still be dry and clumpy at this point
#3cover pillmass with a minimum of 1" Xylene/Toulene(dont use naptha or the return will not be as high) now add NH3 while gently heating, A spray bottle on mist setting works very well.Stir contiunously while adding NH3 until the pill mass becomes a fluid paste,Keep stirring and increase heat until a gentle boil starts, this allows the NH3 to evaporate, SWIM uses a respirator while doing this, suggest you do too.while still hot filter the NP through 1 coffee filter.Immediately add more NP to cover pilmass to a minimum of 1/3 inch. More than that is ok but evaporating solvents is a nasty task.quickly bring this up to a boil and filter through same coffee filter
#4evaporate the NP in front of a box fan or however you prefer to do it,heating the NP solution to about 95 deg one time before evapping it speeds up process
#4come back later to find a solid carpet of good size FB crystals,
Short Path Distillation of the FB will eliminate any gakk as long as you dont rush things and overheat the pillmass
be sure to evap all the solvent from the FB before starting SPD,failure to do so will prevent the snowstorm effect making it more difficult to fine tune temp. as well as causing the FB to stick to the sides of the horizontal pipe and flask making it more difficult to get the FB out when finished, a small aquarium pump as a air supply will work, but a vacuum source is better becauese theres fewer clogs of the pipe and better control of the flow.
#5[/red]bring up temperature slowly untill you see what looks like snowflakes falling out in flsk, when this hapens start up airflow untill you see q flow of glittery xtals moving down pipe and slowly falling out to bottom of tube. If you get this right most of the FB will be in the tube dry and ready to react, this eliminates a final solvent evaporation and is the exact temperature desired.
Any suggestions to the design are welcome.
Enjoy some real fine FB to react ghetto as hell and also the most effective methos SWIM has found, unlike KOH all the pills can be processed together brand name, other actives have not had any effects so far, even used the blue tabs with diphenhydramine, although that required the filtering of the large gakk free FB crystals from the xylene while evapping at room temp, these crash out before the fine sugary diphenhydramine xtals did. By the way these were found to be gakk free with burn test without need of spd! cleanest burning pfed SWIM has seen this year, turned clear as water and just vanished, SWIM encourages more rersearch using pills with other actives, as this has worked on every brand and type tested so far

wareami
(Hive Addict)
10-10-04 16:53
No 535204
User Picture       Nice Work...

Nice work Bro!
However I will finish reading it if I figure out how to transport the post to the 51" bigscreen TV blush laugh

You should have editting still active.
I resized it fer ya!
Put this:
3692-setup02.jpg
in it's place inbetween the upload tags. wink

If the shoe_throws fits...Ware It_out

geezmeister
(Of Counsel)
10-10-04 17:15
No 535206
      Kudos

Kudos on following up on the concept and establishing a workable solution! This is actually much easier and much less complex than it seems at first. Your polish on Prepuce's concept is another example of clandestine chemists exchanging ideas and interacting to solve the common problems. Great work..!

mostly harmless

abominator
(Hive Bee)
10-15-04 09:41
No 535943
User Picture       Yet another great FB yield

From all the info swim has gathered seems that FB rxns are preferable to pseudo HCl rxns. Geezmeister said at first he thought the yields with FB were better, but with experience he found that he could get the same yields with Hcl. Jacked says it(freebase pfed) makes better dope in a recent post, that was enough for swim to dream FB in the future.

Makes me stand UP/ move around

evilscripter69
(Hive Bee)
10-18-04 13:10
No 536349
User Picture       dry ice

Latest modification... use dry ice to cool the horizontal tube, also use cold naptha in recieving flask. this keeps the FB in precipitation, easily filtered, the dry ice allows faster airflow and condenses the fb before it hits the trap. keeping it from dissolving in the naptha

abominator
(Hive Bee)
10-19-04 18:59
No 536651
User Picture       Great idea

You suggest keeping the Naptha cold in the recieving flask. I assume you are talking about an icebath for it? Good idea, keep the FB precipitated.

Wonder just how cold the Naptha must bee before it gives UP the pfed?

Makes me stand UP/move around

₆9

geezmeister
(Of Counsel)
10-19-04 20:16
No 536671
      naptha temp

room temperature naptha will dissolve a small amount of pseudo freebase. Even ice cold, not all of the pseudo freebase will crystallize out of the naptha... some remains dissolved. If you don't believe me, gas the naptha after you filter the pseudo freebase crystals out, or titrate it.

Cold naptha just doesn't hold as much pseudo freebase, and the difference is significant... but never assume that ice cold naptha will not dissolve some freebase pseudo.

mostly harmless

bigdumbnut
(Newbee)
10-22-04 18:52
No 537184
      NH3

When you refer to spraying NH3 on the pill mass you are refering to a water ammonia solution aren't you?

geezmeister
(Of Counsel)
10-22-04 19:38
No 537188
      yep...

He means for you to use ammonium hydroxide, not anhydrous ammonia. Non-sudsing household ammonia will work. A stronger version is available at outlets for janitorial supplies.

mostly harmless

lsd
(Stranger)
10-23-04 22:53
No 537339
      steps please

After reading I am confused. Am told to dissolve etc but were does the apparatus come into play?Sorry but I just don't follow.

thinkpol
(Stranger)
10-24-04 07:45
No 537443
      TCE replacement?

For those in places where TCE is hard to obtain, is there any replacement that would be suited?

Any suggestions would be much appreciated :)

To bee or not to be

abominator
(Hive Bee)
10-24-04 14:22
No 537473
User Picture       Re: This is a variation on the Tetra Trap...

This is a variation on the Tetra Trap method and has also been very successful using only sodium carbonate without TCE,

As far as swim knows, there is no solvent that will replicate what TCE does. Maybe try it without the TCE?

DCM is another chlorinated solvent, but no substitute for tetra.

Makes me stand UP/move around

₆9

lsd
10-26-04 02:56
      new gaaks!!!
(Rated as: insignificant)

Xavl2
(Hive Bee)
10-27-04 01:40
No 538021
      Questions

A few questions:

* What exactly is the purpose of ammonia water? Suzy is already freebased with sodium carbonate?

* When you pull the NP, wouldn't you pull a bit of TCE with it too and get the gakks dissolved in TCE? Is TCE miscible with NP (swim never used TCE)?

* You say this works WITHOUT TCE also. Without pre-boils in acetone and toluene, prior to basing, wouldn't the toluene pull the gakks together with freebase suzy when you mix with sodium carbonate?

Xavl2
(Hive Bee)
10-27-04 01:42
No 538023
      And another one...

* How do you get rid of the antihistamines? Swim thought acetone boils was the only way prior to basing.

geezmeister
(Of Counsel)
10-27-04 05:01
No 538041
      why ammonia water

Sodium carbonate needs to dissolve in water to be really effective as a base. The water in the ammonium hydroxide will do that. The ammonia is also a base. It has, s Prepuce noted, a distinct effect on the pill mass. While we do not know in particular why it works as it does, if you give it a try you may be surprised.

The TCE is used to keep the pill mass fluid and to hang onto the polys it loves to attach to. it helps hold them in the pill mass rather than releasing them to the extraction solvent.

Or so I understand the concept, anyway.

mostly harmless

Xavl2
(Hive Bee)
10-27-04 06:48
No 538061
      Hmmm... so what happened to waterless ...

Hmmm... so what happened to waterless extractions? Swim thought it was old news that water activates some gakks?

Swim soaks PM in acetone over night, then 3 boils in toluene. Then mix with sodium carbonate and added MeOH to make the pill mass moist. MeOH dissolves suzy and lets it react with solid carbonate. 3 Tol pulls yield 70% - 75% freebase that leaves a minute tiny stain on glass when burnt.

thinkpol
(Stranger)
10-27-04 12:36
No 538100
      If TCE is not used..

Should an alternative per se be utilised to wetten the pillmass, or should this step be ignored?

To bee or not to be

geezmeister
(Of Counsel)
10-27-04 15:40
No 538113
      different approaches

Xavl2-- Gakk-saturated TCE cannot hold the pseudo that elutes as the base is mobilized by the addition of water; the water is added in small amounts to a pill mass that is just saturated with the water-immiscible solvent. The binders which would release when wetted are either saturated with TCE and do not release, or the foilants released by water are held by the TCE in the pill mass slurry. TCE is poorly miscible in most nonpolar solvents, and practically immiscible in naptha and xylene. The TCE holds the pill mass in a slurry, the slurry holds most gakks, and the freebase pseudo elutes to the extraction solvent. The method allows the use of some in basing the pseudo even when water activated encapsulators are present in the pill formula.

Your yields appear to be optimal for the method you use. smile

mostly harmless

evilscripter69
(Hive Bee)
10-29-04 09:35
No 538500
User Picture       Blue 60's with diphenhydramine

ungakked pills may be utilized, the benadryl use Tetra Trap procedure with toluene and heat the filtered NP close to boiling. Set out the pan in a ventilated location, as the NP evaportates the pfed crashes out first cool

evilscripter69
(Hive Bee)
11-03-04 10:12
No 539408
User Picture       SWIM hasn't found a pill

that he wasn't able to pull smile SPD has not been unecessary when the pseudo was filtered from the tolly as soon as it crashed out of solution, and a following rinse with cold dH2O was performed,

More coming later.

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	All 21 posts		Subject: Ghetto FB extraction w/ 80% + returns		Please login to post		Down


		evilscripter69 (Hive Bee) 10-10-04 00:57 No 535119				Ghetto FB extraction w/ 80% + returns
						how does 12.5 g. FB return from 6/20 ct generic 120's sound ? also tested on 60's with chlor and or trip, as well as highly gakked red hots. follow directions closely because too much NH3 will fuck it up, causing a large yeild loss This is a variation on the Tetra Trap method and has also been very successful using only sodium carbonate without TCE,although this required adding a small amount of NH3 when the pillmass started to clump while heating,only add enough to make it pasty again a spray bottle on mist setting works best the pills can be combined with same results #1combine all the pills with an equal amount of sodium carbonate and grind to a fine powder in a heavy duty coffee grinder or blender. let it sit for 5 minutes #2place pillmass in visionware/corningware casserole dish,spray a small amount of TCE into it, enough to slightly wetten the pillmass,it should still be dry and clumpy at this point #3cover pillmass with a minimum of 1" Xylene/Toulene(dont use naptha or the return will not be as high) now add NH3 while gently heating, A spray bottle on mist setting works very well.Stir contiunously while adding NH3 until the pill mass becomes a fluid paste,Keep stirring and increase heat until a gentle boil starts, this allows the NH3 to evaporate, SWIM uses a respirator while doing this, suggest you do too.while still hot filter the NP through 1 coffee filter.Immediately add more NP to cover pilmass to a minimum of 1/3 inch. More than that is ok but evaporating solvents is a nasty task.quickly bring this up to a boil and filter through same coffee filter #4evaporate the NP in front of a box fan or however you prefer to do it,heating the NP solution to about 95 deg one time before evapping it speeds up process #4come back later to find a solid carpet of good size FB crystals, Short Path Distillation of the FB will eliminate any gakk as long as you dont rush things and overheat the pillmass be sure to evap all the solvent from the FB before starting SPD,failure to do so will prevent the snowstorm effect making it more difficult to fine tune temp. as well as causing the FB to stick to the sides of the horizontal pipe and flask making it more difficult to get the FB out when finished, a small aquarium pump as a air supply will work, but a vacuum source is better becauese theres fewer clogs of the pipe and better control of the flow. #5[/red]bring up temperature slowly untill you see what looks like snowflakes falling out in flsk, when this hapens start up airflow untill you see q flow of glittery xtals moving down pipe and slowly falling out to bottom of tube. If you get this right most of the FB will be in the tube dry and ready to react, this eliminates a final solvent evaporation and is the exact temperature desired. Any suggestions to the design are welcome. Enjoy some real fine FB to react ghetto as hell and also the most effective methos SWIM has found, unlike KOH all the pills can be processed together brand name, other actives have not had any effects so far, even used the blue tabs with diphenhydramine, although that required the filtering of the large gakk free FB crystals from the xylene while evapping at room temp, these crash out before the fine sugary diphenhydramine xtals did. By the way these were found to be gakk free with burn test without need of spd! cleanest burning pfed SWIM has seen this year, turned clear as water and just vanished, SWIM encourages more rersearch using pills with other actives, as this has worked on every brand and type tested so far



		wareami (Hive Addict) 10-10-04 16:53 No 535204				Nice Work...
						Nice work Bro! However I will finish reading it if I figure out how to transport the post to the 51" bigscreen TV You should have editting still active. I resized it fer ya! Put this: 3692-setup02.jpg in it's place inbetween the upload tags. If the shoe_throws fits...Ware It_out



		geezmeister (Of Counsel) 10-10-04 17:15 No 535206				Kudos
						Kudos on following up on the concept and establishing a workable solution! This is actually much easier and much less complex than it seems at first. Your polish on Prepuce's concept is another example of clandestine chemists exchanging ideas and interacting to solve the common problems. Great work..! mostly harmless



		abominator (Hive Bee) 10-15-04 09:41 No 535943				Yet another great FB yield
						From all the info swim has gathered seems that FB rxns are preferable to pseudo HCl rxns. Geezmeister said at first he thought the yields with FB were better, but with experience he found that he could get the same yields with Hcl. Jacked says it(freebase pfed) makes better dope in a recent post, that was enough for swim to dream FB in the future. Makes me stand UP/ move around



		evilscripter69 (Hive Bee) 10-18-04 13:10 No 536349				dry ice
						Latest modification... use dry ice to cool the horizontal tube, also use cold naptha in recieving flask. this keeps the FB in precipitation, easily filtered, the dry ice allows faster airflow and condenses the fb before it hits the trap. keeping it from dissolving in the naptha



		abominator (Hive Bee) 10-19-04 18:59 No 536651				Great idea
						You suggest keeping the Naptha cold in the recieving flask. I assume you are talking about an icebath for it? Good idea, keep the FB precipitated. Wonder just how cold the Naptha must bee before it gives UP the pfed? Makes me stand UP/move around ₆9



		geezmeister (Of Counsel) 10-19-04 20:16 No 536671				naptha temp
						room temperature naptha will dissolve a small amount of pseudo freebase. Even ice cold, not all of the pseudo freebase will crystallize out of the naptha... some remains dissolved. If you don't believe me, gas the naptha after you filter the pseudo freebase crystals out, or titrate it. Cold naptha just doesn't hold as much pseudo freebase, and the difference is significant... but never assume that ice cold naptha will not dissolve some freebase pseudo. mostly harmless



		bigdumbnut (Newbee) 10-22-04 18:52 No 537184				NH3
						When you refer to spraying NH3 on the pill mass you are refering to a water ammonia solution aren't you?



		geezmeister (Of Counsel) 10-22-04 19:38 No 537188				yep...
						He means for you to use ammonium hydroxide, not anhydrous ammonia. Non-sudsing household ammonia will work. A stronger version is available at outlets for janitorial supplies. mostly harmless



		lsd (Stranger) 10-23-04 22:53 No 537339				steps please
						After reading I am confused. Am told to dissolve etc but were does the apparatus come into play?Sorry but I just don't follow.



		thinkpol (Stranger) 10-24-04 07:45 No 537443				TCE replacement?
						For those in places where TCE is hard to obtain, is there any replacement that would be suited? Any suggestions would be much appreciated :) To bee or not to be



		abominator (Hive Bee) 10-24-04 14:22 No 537473				Re: This is a variation on the Tetra Trap...
						This is a variation on the Tetra Trap method and has also been very successful using only sodium carbonate without TCE, As far as swim knows, there is no solvent that will replicate what TCE does. Maybe try it without the TCE? DCM is another chlorinated solvent, but no substitute for tetra. Makes me stand UP/move around ₆9



		lsd 10-26-04 02:56				new gaaks!!! (Rated as: insignificant)



		Xavl2 (Hive Bee) 10-27-04 01:40 No 538021				Questions
						A few questions: * What exactly is the purpose of ammonia water? Suzy is already freebased with sodium carbonate? * When you pull the NP, wouldn't you pull a bit of TCE with it too and get the gakks dissolved in TCE? Is TCE miscible with NP (swim never used TCE)? * You say this works WITHOUT TCE also. Without pre-boils in acetone and toluene, prior to basing, wouldn't the toluene pull the gakks together with freebase suzy when you mix with sodium carbonate?



		Xavl2 (Hive Bee) 10-27-04 01:42 No 538023				And another one...
						* How do you get rid of the antihistamines? Swim thought acetone boils was the only way prior to basing.



		geezmeister (Of Counsel) 10-27-04 05:01 No 538041				why ammonia water
						Sodium carbonate needs to dissolve in water to be really effective as a base. The water in the ammonium hydroxide will do that. The ammonia is also a base. It has, s Prepuce noted, a distinct effect on the pill mass. While we do not know in particular why it works as it does, if you give it a try you may be surprised. The TCE is used to keep the pill mass fluid and to hang onto the polys it loves to attach to. it helps hold them in the pill mass rather than releasing them to the extraction solvent. Or so I understand the concept, anyway. mostly harmless



		Xavl2 (Hive Bee) 10-27-04 06:48 No 538061				Hmmm... so what happened to waterless ...
						Hmmm... so what happened to waterless extractions? Swim thought it was old news that water activates some gakks? Swim soaks PM in acetone over night, then 3 boils in toluene. Then mix with sodium carbonate and added MeOH to make the pill mass moist. MeOH dissolves suzy and lets it react with solid carbonate. 3 Tol pulls yield 70% - 75% freebase that leaves a minute tiny stain on glass when burnt.



		thinkpol (Stranger) 10-27-04 12:36 No 538100				If TCE is not used..
						Should an alternative per se be utilised to wetten the pillmass, or should this step be ignored? To bee or not to be



		geezmeister (Of Counsel) 10-27-04 15:40 No 538113				different approaches
						Xavl2-- Gakk-saturated TCE cannot hold the pseudo that elutes as the base is mobilized by the addition of water; the water is added in small amounts to a pill mass that is just saturated with the water-immiscible solvent. The binders which would release when wetted are either saturated with TCE and do not release, or the foilants released by water are held by the TCE in the pill mass slurry. TCE is poorly miscible in most nonpolar solvents, and practically immiscible in naptha and xylene. The TCE holds the pill mass in a slurry, the slurry holds most gakks, and the freebase pseudo elutes to the extraction solvent. The method allows the use of some in basing the pseudo even when water activated encapsulators are present in the pill formula. Your yields appear to be optimal for the method you use. mostly harmless



		evilscripter69 (Hive Bee) 10-29-04 09:35 No 538500				Blue 60's with diphenhydramine
						ungakked pills may be utilized, the benadryl use Tetra Trap procedure with toluene and heat the filtered NP close to boiling. Set out the pan in a ventilated location, as the NP evaportates the pfed crashes out first



		evilscripter69 (Hive Bee) 11-03-04 10:12 No 539408				SWIM hasn't found a pill
						that he wasn't able to pull SPD has not been unecessary when the pseudo was filtered from the tolly as soon as it crashed out of solution, and a following rinse with cold dH2O was performed, More coming later.

All 21 posts	End of thread	Top