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All 11 posts Subject: Freebase RP/I Reaction Success Please login to post Down

tina_craig
(Hive Bee)
11-10-04 16:57
No 540844
User Picture       Freebase RP/I Reaction Success

Switc did it!! 2 gram FB rxn, dam that mother has some kick. Followed Jacked's writeup, thought switc screwed up because at one point flask filled with red-orange smoke and wouldn't let switc get it back under control. It worked out just fine though, using hose and balloon and switc let it cook for about 2.5 hours peaking the temp at the end to around 200 degrees Celsius. It made some fire ass shit!!! Still waiting for mailorder KOH, so took Fester's tip about a quick bake before using the bleach/KOH drain cleaner and it gave switc what appeared to be usable KOH, the really weird thing is no layers formed during boil, still left about a 1/8 of an inch in the bottom of the beaker, but pseudo and gear came out great anyway. FB is pretty kickass and switc is going to stick with it from now on!! Thanx Jacked!!
As far as ratios:
2 grams FB Pseudo/2 grams I/2.5 grams MBRP
Iodine from tinc was fresh so no h2o was added.

Tina Craig worked for me!!

voodoochild
(Stranger)
11-10-04 17:45
No 540859
      LWR Freebase

Do you gain anything by using a lwr with freebase or is the reaction actually totally completed in such a short timeframe? And if so, what should the approximate ratios be plus how much water?

dextro
(Newbee)
11-10-04 17:54
No 540864
      please describe the bioassay compared to your...

please describe the bioassay compared to your other (first) rxn. did you perform a lwr at any time?

thx

geezmeister
(Of Counsel)
11-10-04 19:03
No 540877
      on the lwr with freebase

The long wet reflux provides the same product over a little more time, but without the risk of the exothermia damaging the pseudo... I am not saying that Jacked's writeup doesn't work... it does. I've done it. The caution that one exercises with the reaction at its outset in his writeup is absent in a wet start reflux reaction with freebase pseudo. You get the great product, and fantastic yields, at lower risk of failure. All it takes is a little patience.

Patience pays.

mostly harmless

oxyprazolam
11-10-04 19:28
      boy does it ever.
(Rated as: redundant)

tina_craig
(Hive Bee)
11-10-04 20:26
No 540901
User Picture       Switc has had about 10 successful Hot dry fast

Switc has had about 10 successful Hot dry fast rxns using the Pseudo HCl and now 1 success with the freebase. Quality and yield did improve from switc's prior successes, IMHO. Switc thinks that it could have been even better but the rxn got away from him a little halfway through the start. The FB rxn when doing a hot fast dry is a whole new ballgame compared to the HCl. When switc lost control for a second was worried that it was all going to be a loss, because when switc lost control the FB took 100% control until Ibee got it cooled down, the entire flask filled with red-orange smoke which ibee has been informed by the man (Jacked) that this is to be avoided. Jacked is the man on this one, switc will answer to the best of his knowledge but this one is new to ibee too. However, will be performing FB rxns. from now on.

Tina Craig worked for me!!

geezmeister
(Of Counsel)
11-10-04 22:12
No 540919
      and my point

Switc thinks that it could have been even better but the rxn got away from him a little halfway through the start. The FB rxn when doing a hot fast dry is a whole new ballgame compared to the HCl.

And my point is that if you use freebase pseudo in a wet reflux, you have none of the risk you detail above, along with minimal risks of byproduct formation, which will lead you to fewer failures and cleaner product in the long run.

I don't dispute that one can do the freebase reaction per Jacked's posts on doing them. I have done them successfully, in fact, I don't recall having a failure doing them that way, and watching the reaction start from the heat of the palm of your hand is rather fascinating.

Video Editor, intriqued by Jacked's work, experimented with using water to combat the exothermia encountered both in making the HI from rP and I2 but the exothermia which accompanies the freebase pseudo being converted to pseudo HI... another salt form of the pseudo... when the reaction becomes acidic with the HI produced. He noted no problems with "tender" freebase pseudo. I tried the freebase reaction wet, and found it foolproof, at least against this fool. I never felt compelled after that first reflux with freebase to return to the more difficult task of doing a dry reaction with freebase pseudo.

One other point I might make, and I don't make this for Jacked, who is more than able to express his points... his writeups on freebase reaction preceeded the swing of opinion to reflux type reactions. I don't know that he would advocate doing the reaction the same way if he were posting on doing freebase reactions today. I leave the answer to that question where it belongs, with him.

I will reiterate some advice I keep giving, which seems to be appreciated by a lot of bees who send me pm's saying thanks for steering them the way I did... and that advice is that the easiest, most foolproof way to make top quality meth with high yields while avoiding byproduct formation and the formation of incomplete intermediates and dimers is a long wet reflux. Take the time to do one, just one, and let it convince you that it is in every way far easier and more effective than any shorter, dryer reaction using rP and I2.

mostly harmless

voodoochild
11-10-04 23:08
      ratois
(Rated as: UTFSE!)

geezmeister
(Of Counsel)
11-11-04 00:10
No 540937
      not in my experience

While it seems logical to me that since the freebase uses some of the HI to change the form of the pseudo to pseudo HI, and the reaction should require more HI than one with pseudo HCl, experience does not bear this out. If you use the same ratios as you would for the HCl form, you will have good succes. Whether the pseudo HI reacts more easily than the pseudo HCl or whether the HCl is an adulterant in the reaction I do not know. I do know from experience that the ratios of red phosphorous and iodine and water I use for the HCl work for the freebase just as well. I reflux, though.

mostly harmless

Jacked
(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
11-11-04 13:59
No 541022
      reply

It was MnM that turned me on the the reflux with freebase a few years back in ozbee's chat room..
The main reason Swim started working with freebase in the push pull was to get an otherwise stalled reaction off the ground, at the time many failed reaction was being posted and Swim figured it might be an answer to help the weaker OTC reagents fire off better for some bees. It worked and as an added bonus the shit was top notch gear. I'm sorry you guys haven't figured out that a push pull reaction is not a hot dry reaction if done right. Swim is just an observer in this dispute.
Thank god no one told the locals this shit was no good they would have had a fight on there hands. The shit is still talked about today so there is Merritt in the majority, just not the hive majority.. I got tired of the majority of the hive knocking swims shit never once even trying any or even asking to.. I did succumb to the pressure ands so did swim. On paper anyway. Remember the thread Eye candy? My how quick some forget. Fortunate for Worlock is that no one argued with him and his methods giving him a title of tweaker God no less. It must be because his name was in red.. Only us worker bees were being thrashed about without even one person asking exactly what Jacked was doing, only assuming he was as skilled as those who ran a few push pulls in there day.. Few being under a hundred and Many being over the 600 mark by estimation.. I understand exactly were everyone is getting there presumptions of what is normally done and there disputes over ones inability to take a reaction over and beyond boundary's to look for change in outcome not being satisfied with the standard. Before Swim worked out the freebase reaction no one ever ran it in a push pull.. It to was evolved into a better reaction by an intrigued bee who experimented with it.. Always looking to improve. Jacked was always doing exactly that as well, who knows he just might have figured out something you guys didn't.. It's not open for argument as long as it stays with in his camp and so it lays today.
The reflux is the way to go as we have stated and all is in agreement on. There are reasons I state this and believe it to be true. Swim did experience better yields and just for arguments sake better shit (compared to first titration and not after recrystallizing:)
I would recommend the reflux to any newbee over a push pull any day but my reasons are not the same as the majority and to save from stomping on toes and hurting feelings that reason will remain in camp as well.. I ain't stating this to start any shit or to disrespect anyone so please no one bee should take this personal, consider it just an old built up rant us old timers are entitled to every now and again while watching their day in the light pass..
It ain't easy being Jacked but someone's got to do it..

Tighten Up! (UH)

placebo
(arrogant bee of the day)
11-12-04 07:38
No 541184
User Picture       word

You speak the truth, jacked! The push/pull(or Nazi/biker) method was addictive because of the explosive reactions! The initial first reaction fires off! Then the final reaction fires! You know you got the shit! It's addictive! The reflux, which is the proper method, is well, let's face it, fucking boring, but the most effective path to complete reduction of ephedrine.
Reflux, fractional and steam distillation, hydrolysis. These are procedures members need to adopt and become familiar with. These are the procedures used by the original cooks from the '60s, and now, with the sorry source pills have become, necessary skills today!

Yeah, this is Android!

It's not really me, it's Android in disguise!

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	All 11 posts		Subject: Freebase RP/I Reaction Success		Please login to post		Down


		tina_craig (Hive Bee) 11-10-04 16:57 No 540844				Freebase RP/I Reaction Success
						Switc did it!! 2 gram FB rxn, dam that mother has some kick. Followed Jacked's writeup, thought switc screwed up because at one point flask filled with red-orange smoke and wouldn't let switc get it back under control. It worked out just fine though, using hose and balloon and switc let it cook for about 2.5 hours peaking the temp at the end to around 200 degrees Celsius. It made some fire ass shit!!! Still waiting for mailorder KOH, so took Fester's tip about a quick bake before using the bleach/KOH drain cleaner and it gave switc what appeared to be usable KOH, the really weird thing is no layers formed during boil, still left about a 1/8 of an inch in the bottom of the beaker, but pseudo and gear came out great anyway. FB is pretty kickass and switc is going to stick with it from now on!! Thanx Jacked!! As far as ratios: 2 grams FB Pseudo/2 grams I/2.5 grams MBRP Iodine from tinc was fresh so no h2o was added. Tina Craig worked for me!!



		voodoochild (Stranger) 11-10-04 17:45 No 540859				LWR Freebase
						Do you gain anything by using a lwr with freebase or is the reaction actually totally completed in such a short timeframe? And if so, what should the approximate ratios be plus how much water?



		dextro (Newbee) 11-10-04 17:54 No 540864				please describe the bioassay compared to your...
						please describe the bioassay compared to your other (first) rxn. did you perform a lwr at any time? thx



		geezmeister (Of Counsel) 11-10-04 19:03 No 540877				on the lwr with freebase
						The long wet reflux provides the same product over a little more time, but without the risk of the exothermia damaging the pseudo... I am not saying that Jacked's writeup doesn't work... it does. I've done it. The caution that one exercises with the reaction at its outset in his writeup is absent in a wet start reflux reaction with freebase pseudo. You get the great product, and fantastic yields, at lower risk of failure. All it takes is a little patience. Patience pays. mostly harmless



		oxyprazolam 11-10-04 19:28				boy does it ever. (Rated as: redundant)



		tina_craig (Hive Bee) 11-10-04 20:26 No 540901				Switc has had about 10 successful Hot dry fast
						Switc has had about 10 successful Hot dry fast rxns using the Pseudo HCl and now 1 success with the freebase. Quality and yield did improve from switc's prior successes, IMHO. Switc thinks that it could have been even better but the rxn got away from him a little halfway through the start. The FB rxn when doing a hot fast dry is a whole new ballgame compared to the HCl. When switc lost control for a second was worried that it was all going to be a loss, because when switc lost control the FB took 100% control until Ibee got it cooled down, the entire flask filled with red-orange smoke which ibee has been informed by the man (Jacked) that this is to be avoided. Jacked is the man on this one, switc will answer to the best of his knowledge but this one is new to ibee too. However, will be performing FB rxns. from now on. Tina Craig worked for me!!



		geezmeister (Of Counsel) 11-10-04 22:12 No 540919				and my point
						Switc thinks that it could have been even better but the rxn got away from him a little halfway through the start. The FB rxn when doing a hot fast dry is a whole new ballgame compared to the HCl. And my point is that if you use freebase pseudo in a wet reflux, you have none of the risk you detail above, along with minimal risks of byproduct formation, which will lead you to fewer failures and cleaner product in the long run. I don't dispute that one can do the freebase reaction per Jacked's posts on doing them. I have done them successfully, in fact, I don't recall having a failure doing them that way, and watching the reaction start from the heat of the palm of your hand is rather fascinating. Video Editor, intriqued by Jacked's work, experimented with using water to combat the exothermia encountered both in making the HI from rP and I2 but the exothermia which accompanies the freebase pseudo being converted to pseudo HI... another salt form of the pseudo... when the reaction becomes acidic with the HI produced. He noted no problems with "tender" freebase pseudo. I tried the freebase reaction wet, and found it foolproof, at least against this fool. I never felt compelled after that first reflux with freebase to return to the more difficult task of doing a dry reaction with freebase pseudo. One other point I might make, and I don't make this for Jacked, who is more than able to express his points... his writeups on freebase reaction preceeded the swing of opinion to reflux type reactions. I don't know that he would advocate doing the reaction the same way if he were posting on doing freebase reactions today. I leave the answer to that question where it belongs, with him. I will reiterate some advice I keep giving, which seems to be appreciated by a lot of bees who send me pm's saying thanks for steering them the way I did... and that advice is that the easiest, most foolproof way to make top quality meth with high yields while avoiding byproduct formation and the formation of incomplete intermediates and dimers is a long wet reflux. Take the time to do one, just one, and let it convince you that it is in every way far easier and more effective than any shorter, dryer reaction using rP and I2. mostly harmless



		voodoochild 11-10-04 23:08				ratois (Rated as: UTFSE!)



		geezmeister (Of Counsel) 11-11-04 00:10 No 540937				not in my experience
						While it seems logical to me that since the freebase uses some of the HI to change the form of the pseudo to pseudo HI, and the reaction should require more HI than one with pseudo HCl, experience does not bear this out. If you use the same ratios as you would for the HCl form, you will have good succes. Whether the pseudo HI reacts more easily than the pseudo HCl or whether the HCl is an adulterant in the reaction I do not know. I do know from experience that the ratios of red phosphorous and iodine and water I use for the HCl work for the freebase just as well. I reflux, though. mostly harmless



		Jacked (Ancient Alchemist Delux) 11-11-04 13:59 No 541022				reply
						It was MnM that turned me on the the reflux with freebase a few years back in ozbee's chat room.. The main reason Swim started working with freebase in the push pull was to get an otherwise stalled reaction off the ground, at the time many failed reaction was being posted and Swim figured it might be an answer to help the weaker OTC reagents fire off better for some bees. It worked and as an added bonus the shit was top notch gear. I'm sorry you guys haven't figured out that a push pull reaction is not a hot dry reaction if done right. Swim is just an observer in this dispute. Thank god no one told the locals this shit was no good they would have had a fight on there hands. The shit is still talked about today so there is Merritt in the majority, just not the hive majority.. I got tired of the majority of the hive knocking swims shit never once even trying any or even asking to.. I did succumb to the pressure ands so did swim. On paper anyway. Remember the thread Eye candy? My how quick some forget. Fortunate for Worlock is that no one argued with him and his methods giving him a title of tweaker God no less. It must be because his name was in red.. Only us worker bees were being thrashed about without even one person asking exactly what Jacked was doing, only assuming he was as skilled as those who ran a few push pulls in there day.. Few being under a hundred and Many being over the 600 mark by estimation.. I understand exactly were everyone is getting there presumptions of what is normally done and there disputes over ones inability to take a reaction over and beyond boundary's to look for change in outcome not being satisfied with the standard. Before Swim worked out the freebase reaction no one ever ran it in a push pull.. It to was evolved into a better reaction by an intrigued bee who experimented with it.. Always looking to improve. Jacked was always doing exactly that as well, who knows he just might have figured out something you guys didn't.. It's not open for argument as long as it stays with in his camp and so it lays today. The reflux is the way to go as we have stated and all is in agreement on. There are reasons I state this and believe it to be true. Swim did experience better yields and just for arguments sake better shit (compared to first titration and not after recrystallizing:) I would recommend the reflux to any newbee over a push pull any day but my reasons are not the same as the majority and to save from stomping on toes and hurting feelings that reason will remain in camp as well.. I ain't stating this to start any shit or to disrespect anyone so please no one bee should take this personal, consider it just an old built up rant us old timers are entitled to every now and again while watching their day in the light pass.. It ain't easy being Jacked but someone's got to do it.. Tighten Up! (UH)



		placebo (arrogant bee of the day) 11-12-04 07:38 No 541184				word
						You speak the truth, jacked! The push/pull(or Nazi/biker) method was addictive because of the explosive reactions! The initial first reaction fires off! Then the final reaction fires! You know you got the shit! It's addictive! The reflux, which is the proper method, is well, let's face it, fucking boring, but the most effective path to complete reduction of ephedrine. Reflux, fractional and steam distillation, hydrolysis. These are procedures members need to adopt and become familiar with. These are the procedures used by the original cooks from the '60s, and now, with the sorry source pills have become, necessary skills today! Yeah, this is *Android! It's not really me, it's Android* in disguise!

All 11 posts	End of thread	Top