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All 30 posts Subject: Ecstasy related deaths Please login to post Down

zephler
(Newbee)
05-31-00 17:00
No 11818
      Ecstasy related deaths

So far this year in Canada, there has been I think 5 official deaths due to ecstasy. What is this due to, simply the LD50 of MDMA? Overexahuastion? Once I was told safrole is posionous to 1 in like 250 000 people due to some kind of genetic predisopostion to it. I hope that it's not possible for that characteristic to be brought through to MDMA, hopefully not intensifying along the way. I know if one of my friends were to take some locally produced MDMA and die...well that would be pretty heavy.

johny
(Hive Bee)
05-31-00 21:12
No 11907
      Post deleted by johny

placebo
(Hive Addict)
05-31-00 21:41
No 11921
User Picture       Re: Ecstasy related deaths

It is due to a genetic abnormality!
It is extremely rare and the chances of being hit by a 747 falling from the sky are better!
So do not be alarmed by the media hype!
and keep a lookout above!

My tag was too good, and upset some people

Antibody2
(Hive Bee)
06-02-00 13:49
No 12806
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

Antibody thinks they ate something other than X. Antibody can power through well over a g of X and not come near to overdoing it. He probably looks a little stunned though. All kindza shit gettin passed off as X these days. Antibody remembers swapping goodies (bad bad bad idea) in the can of bar once and went FUCKING BLIND for 6 hours! You want to talk about scarry, antibody kept wondering when, if ever the blindness would wear off.

BTW - bees got any idea what antibody may have swallowed that time, he still had his peripheral vision just nothing except a black blob front and centre.

Antibody doesn’t eat out anymore!

Antibody can only repeat what antibody has gleaned from used condom wrappers!

LD_50
(Stranger)
07-20-00 12:29
No 30890
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

to put things in perspective: the average LD of caffien ,for adults, is 10,000mg<or 10g>

the average amt is 100mg/cup of arabica coffee
less for expreso
or ~100 cups
or 100 wake up pills

mdma is a thermalretainer and many rave drugs are as well<meth,k etc..> many of the deaths where thought to be caused by unpure adulterated x and lack of ventilation and water.

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
07-20-00 12:49
No 30894
User Picture       Re: Ecstasy related deaths

Recently, two club kids from denmark died from taking Mitsubishis. The problem was that they didn't contain any MDMA, but instead a mixture of PMA and PMMA. I think many deaths can be attributed to various junk in the tablets, rather than MDMA overdose.

http://rhodium.lycaeum.org

blaztoff
(Hive Bee)
07-21-00 05:41
No 31191
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

People mostly die from something other than e in thier pills if any at all. A lot of pills might have only 30-40 mg of real e in them. Also look at all the other drugs they are taking at the same time. Basically your body can only handle so much at once and mixing any drug is dangerous but that accumilated with other facts ,heat etc are the real danger. Me ive accidentely swallowed almost 2 grams before and well aside from bieng the most intense trip of my life and bieng high for 3 days im fine,(Pure i made it so i know it was)

aquagirl
(Hive Bee)
07-21-00 07:04
No 31213
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

I'm not as up on MDMA pharmacology as I am on amphetamine pharmacology- but there seems to be more idiosynchratic responses clinically than you'd expect (typically to dexedrine, as that's whats administered usually). Dosage can really vary psychological as well as physiologically. I imagine we will be seeing more documentation on this as the rampant abuse of the amphetamines spreads.

Is this a potential factor? Or is the dose:response curve pretty even across the board on MDMA? I know you don't get the constant re-administration of E like you do on meth for the bulk of the population (too costly).

Another afterthought- I've been noticing that yohimbine (or maybe just yohimbe extract) is popping up in more and more "smart drinks" here in the US. This presents is a very real danger of hyperthermia that the meth crowd seems to be aware of- I imagine the same warnings should apply to the E consuming rave crowd, yet I've never seen it mentioned in any of the "harm reduction" material (although admittedly I don't see nearly as much as many of you folks do).

======
retired.
all posts are of a hypothetical nature for academic mental masturbation only.

method
(Hive Bee)
07-21-00 07:25
No 31226
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

Rhodium,
According to www.dancesafe.com those mitsuibishi pills you were referring to were also responsable for deaths in Chicago over here in the US. The said the pills more than likely contained PMA.

Methaco_s_mic
(Newbee)
07-21-00 20:14
No 31445
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

Rhodium – Later they changed their mind and said the kids in Denmark died from pills containing 4-MTA. But I think that PMA/PMMA is more likely. The pills were a little less than 250mg each I believe (detailed newspaper!). Ha, today a man at the “social department” in Denmark said he thought they should legalize MDMA and that the manufactureing and selling should be government controlled. I don’t believe this will happen any time soon, to bad!

-Methaco(s)mic

consonant
(Stranger)
07-22-00 01:01
No 31467
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

are 4-mta and pma not one and the same?

250mg is a *shitload* of pma, is it not? _ouch_, i'm surprised more problems didn't happen at that dosage.

how high up was the man in the "social department" who suggested that mdma be made legal? god i can't wait to live in europe... people seem to actually think in the right direction!

(on that topic, messages from any dutch bees who know anything about immigration would be much appreciated! i get the feeling that the official papers and promo info i have don't really give the best real-world perspective on getting into the country.

hell, if any dutch bees could talk to me, period.. ! ;P   my father was born there, but is now a naturalized australian - hopefully my hopes of getting in are still better than none..)

(oh and apologies for the essentially useless post... just enjoyed my first meth iv rush (after shooting quite a few times now) and had to post *something* goddammit!!)

psyloxy
(Hive Bee)
07-22-00 01:33
No 31474
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

4-MTA is 4-methylthioamphetamine. Looks just like PMA only with an S in place of the O. 4-MTA is a MAOI (which makes it so dangerous). There's good article on 4-MTA on ecstasy.org.

--psyloxy--

Methaco_s_mic
(Newbee)
07-24-00 17:57
No 32615
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

consonant – Well I don’t know how high up in the organization he was, but this was an unacceptable stand even in Denmark. In the more serious media (not the “head line type”) it was pointed out that this was his PERSONAL opinion and NOT the opinion of the social department…

The 4-MTA nonsense story is probable due to a recent bust of this drug in my country, and the media believes this was the “bad drug” in Denmark too.

-Methaco(s)mic

consonant
(Newbee)
07-25-00 04:43
No 32704
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

optimism says that if enough health problems are caused by 4-mta/pma/dxm/whatever in "E", the powers that be will eventually notice that there are essentially no fatalities due to the MDMA that so many folks are popping week after week.

eventually someone in power must realise that prohibition is killing kiddies...!

LD_50
(Stranger)
07-25-00 10:41
No 32816
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

there really is no evidence that x is bad or good,many of the studies are not controlled<they do not administer x, the test subjects do and as such the scientists do not have any controll over what the x the subjects gets might contain>. The instance of hospital emerg visits where the patient says the drug is x is increasing at an alarming rate, but blood tests are often not performed to validate the drug was actually x. but the really shitty thing is that gangs and cartels are starting to controll x and often mix meth and pcp with it in hopes of selling the better profit making meth instead of x. X is not addictive and is expensive so it is much better to sell meth and get your customers coming back again. Shit so much problems arise from the illigalization of some drugs...esp. when the gangs and cartels get involved...

bizarium
(Stranger)
07-25-00 14:13
No 32872
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

what do we know about these deaths? Compared to what, i ask? There is never a double blind test.
I'm guessing you could have a rave wherein everyone stayed straight as an arrow, and someone would eventually die. Death happens. It can't always bee blamed on something. Sometimes, people just up and keel over. At the original woodstock, according to statistics, it is safer to trip naked and dance in the mud to weird bands than it is to stay home in the suburbs. The mother of all wars, in the gulf, was safer for our troops, by far, than staying home in the ghetto.
Don't know about you all, but if i take too big a dose, i puke, thereby saving myself some trouble...even though, many times it has happened, i still get off about the same, puke or not. Anyone else have this happen?

bizarium
(Stranger)
07-25-00 14:21
No 32876
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

which really makes me wonder about the action of mdma. Its like a switch being thrown in the brain.
In my experience, which has only been with the pure substance and too many times, over too many years,
i always take about 1/6th gram. Sometimes i puke, sometimes not...the effects always being pretty similar. The bizarre part, to me, and the part i'd like to hear some feedback on, is this: when i puke, i can taste the nasty drug coming up. (Very distinctive flavor) The first many times it happened, i recall thinking "Oh, shit! I just lost my dose! now i won't get off well. But, always get off anyway. This is trying to tell me something.
Anyone else have this experience? Anyone else wonder about the dynamic in the brain/stomach?

Osmium
(Moderator)
07-25-00 14:26
No 32877
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

When you throw up you took too much.
Wasted material.

placebo
(Hive Addict)
07-25-00 14:53
No 32886
User Picture       Re: Ecstasy related deaths

I find that if you throw up it is generally a result of the drug having been taken, and it starting to take effect. So I can throw up without fear of losing product as I know it is the result of it having been absorbed already!
I have never thrown up before it coming on.
I find the feeling like, someone has a hand around my stomach and slowly strangling it, same as large dose of meth! I can only imagine it has something to do with blood flow around stomach.
The taste or aftertaste you speak of is only a residual effect and has never been any product to me. Kinda like a smelly burp hours after smelly food!

One horny Bee!

bizarium
(Stranger)
07-25-00 16:29
No 32902
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

osmium. Like i said, always take same amount, always get off about the same, puke or not. Have tried lowereing dose to where there is no chance of puke, but find that i don't get off there.
Still, part that intrigues me, which placebo addressed, is that i can taste the stuff coming up. Gotta admit, anyone who has tasted the straight stuff, that its pretty damned distinctive. Plus, i don't roll on a full stomach. True, i don't puke till i'm starting to get off. That's why i thought the mechanism might be like a switch...that once it starts, it keeps going, even if some of the material was removed.
you guys are probably right. Still like to hear from others who have blew lunch on a roll.
And somebody dose Hey-Man, will you? No need to bee that hostile. Plus, in the case i mentioned, he was dead wrong. Let's write it off to computor malfuntion, shall we? They are almost human, and seem to fuck up. Sorry to bring this up here, but heyman locked the other thread right after insulting me. Cheap stunt.
You aren't my ex-wife, are you?

bizarium
(Stranger)
07-25-00 16:39
No 32904
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

i suppose, before sugesting some half-baked theory, that i would collect the puke next time and analyse it. not that romantic...plus i'm afraid the scientific curiosity at that moment might make me want to see puke with product, which is what i don't want to happen. Placebo...you sounded pretty surethat you lost no product. Did you test the barf? When i puke (hope this ain't too gross for anyone...i won't bee posting naked lardasses) i usually do it 3 times, and always taste the stuff pretty damn hard.
More weird science is this: just writing this is making me feel like i'm getting off; and my stomach is queezy.

Dick_Fitzbetter
(Hive Bee)
07-25-00 16:48
No 32905
User Picture       Re: Ecstasy related deaths

Next time you barf, try a/b'ing it and see what you get. Actually, you could probably just do a base extraction since the barf will already have a lot of HCl in it... wink

ф¿ф

Osmium
(Moderator)
07-25-00 21:12
No 33003
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

You take your drugs on a full or semi full stomach???

Don't! Don't eat anything for several hours prior to taking the drug! A full stomach will absorb way too much of it, that's why you puke at all and it tastes like honey. Take it on an empty stomach and you will need much less and be just as high.

Thought that were obvious to everybody.

xyzibe3
(Newbee)
07-26-00 01:17
No 33109
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

It is one of the only times when you feel deluxe when you puke. I always tell 1st time xers not to be surprised if they puke. I tell them if the urge hits don't fight it cause it will be the finest blow they ever had.

HAVE YOU LICKED YOUR FROG LATELY ?

Penis_Seinfeld
(Hive Bee)
07-26-00 01:37
No 33118
User Picture       Re: Ecstasy related deaths

Stimulation of 5-HT3 receptors causes vomitting (emesis). MDMA, as you all know, is a fairly potent releaser of serotonin. Why it only happens sometimes, I dunno. Could be your diet during that particular week, etc...

So if you atart vomitting, you can be sure that a good portion of the goodies has already been absorbed.

PS
--
Chairman of the IAADCMSWMC and President of the MH Society

bizarium
(Stranger)
07-26-00 03:03
No 33154
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

osmium: no, i said i don't roll on a full stomach. Not that stupid. But i'm willing to drop this line of questioning, as it seems to bee causing misunderstanding. I'll agree though, that puking while getting off on a roll, is the best pukin one could ask for. In my case, it usually comes out of nowwhere, with almost no warning, and is over just as quick...utterly unlike preying to the porcelin goddess. For me, the difference between a full dose and less than that is quite significant. Half doses, for instance, in my experience, are worse than no dose at all. All the side effects without the empathy; all dressed up and nowhere to go.
I'm not someone with a touchy stomach either. Oddly, i have taken 400 mg. without puking, and gotten no higher than a more appropriate dose. Anyone else notice a ceiling of effects on this substance?
I was lucky (or not) to get in on some guinae pigging for chemists looking for feedback.

LD_50
(Stranger)
07-26-00 17:00
No 33404
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

I was reading that mdma releases all of the seratonin reserves into the synaptic cleft. So it would seem likely that a higher dose would do little. I guess mdma is also partially responsible for blocking serotonin reductase?or pluging the reuptake neuro transmiters.

psyloxy
(Hive Bee)
07-26-00 17:15
No 33408
      Re: Ecstasy related deaths

If you take more MDMA then there is 5HT left, it will only feel like speed.

--psyloxy--

lugh
(Moderator)
08-14-04 00:07
No 525335
      Preventing Problems in Ecstasy Users
(Rated as: excellent)

This article from Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 34(2) pp 145-152 (2002) provides a compilation of the results of various studies on reducing harmful effects from ingesting MDMA wink

Preventing Problems in Ecstasy Users: Reduce Use to Reduce Harm
Matthew J. Baggott, B.A.
Abstract
Increasing use of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetantine (MDMA, "Ecstasy") has been accompanied by concern about acute and possible long-term toxicity. This article discusses acute serious toxicity, chronic toxicity, and common problems associated with Ecstasy use, as well as the implications of these areas for prevention programs targeted at current Ecstasy users. The low incidence of serious adverse events in users creates difficulties for attempts to develop harm reduction recommendations. Many hypothesized risk factors for serious adverse events cannot be confirmed or denied and may not be associated with dramatic elevations in risk. Research on chronic toxicity in users provides strong evidence of neurophysiological changes and suggestive evidence of possible neurocognitive changes. Because these worrisome changes are clinically subtle, users may not be influenced by concerns of neurotoxicity. In contrast, common Ecstasy-related complaints are relatively well documented and have identified risk factors, including factors relating to extent of Ecstasy use (such as "binges"). Common complaints include modest acute and subacute adverse effects, some lasting several days, and problems in life. The apparent willingness of users to modify drug use and other behaviors to decrease these common problems could be used by harm reduction or other prevention programs to encourage users to decrease the extent of Ecstasy use.

cool

Chemistry is our Covalent Bond

Xaja
(Hive Bee)
08-14-04 20:10
No 525421
      SWIX's friend was second death attributed...

SWIX's friend was the second death attributed to X overdose in a certain country. SWIX wasn't with him at the party that night but according to both toxicology and friends present at said party it seems he had taken magic mushrooms, X, lots and lots and lots of alcohol, smoked few joints, and may have taken an acid trip also. Another contributing factor (or perhaps even the major cause) was that hell fell and hit his head hard on concrete or other hard surface shortly before he began convulsing and died.

The authorities contributed the death to X.

What a fucken joke! Its analogous to someone driving a car at high speed in wet conditions with bald tyres on a smooth surface road, crashing fatally, and attributing the death to the fact that one of the headlights wasn't working. It may have contributed, but it is non-sensical to claim it was the major cause without very clear evidence.

But the beez are used to such bullshit by now and will take it in stride while the flask refluxes. wink

A side point: SWIX has had the odd X tab that just makes him sweat like hell and feel kinda poisoned. Although mildly pleasant in some way def not X but one of the analogues or something else. People who do this suck if they do not let the buyer know what they are getting! mad

***FriedPiper***

"Fuck you and the horse you rode in on"

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	All 30 posts		Subject: Ecstasy related deaths		Please login to post		Down


		zephler (Newbee) 05-31-00 17:00 No 11818				Ecstasy related deaths
						So far this year in Canada, there has been I think 5 official deaths due to ecstasy. What is this due to, simply the LD50 of MDMA? Overexahuastion? Once I was told safrole is posionous to 1 in like 250 000 people due to some kind of genetic predisopostion to it. I hope that it's not possible for that characteristic to be brought through to MDMA, hopefully not intensifying along the way. I know if one of my friends were to take some locally produced MDMA and die...well that would be pretty heavy.



		johny (Hive Bee) 05-31-00 21:12 No 11907				Post deleted by johny




		placebo (Hive Addict) 05-31-00 21:41 No 11921				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						It is due to a genetic abnormality! It is extremely rare and the chances of being hit by a 747 falling from the sky are better! So do not be alarmed by the media hype! and keep a lookout above! My tag was too good, and upset some people



		Antibody2 (Hive Bee) 06-02-00 13:49 No 12806				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						Antibody thinks they ate something other than X. Antibody can power through well over a g of X and not come near to overdoing it. He probably looks a little stunned though. All kindza shit gettin passed off as X these days. Antibody remembers swapping goodies (bad bad bad idea) in the can of bar once and went FUCKING BLIND for 6 hours! You want to talk about scarry, antibody kept wondering when, if ever the blindness would wear off. BTW - bees got any idea what antibody may have swallowed that time, he still had his peripheral vision just nothing except a black blob front and centre. Antibody doesn’t eat out anymore! Antibody can only repeat what antibody has gleaned from used condom wrappers!



		LD_50 (Stranger) 07-20-00 12:29 No 30890				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						to put things in perspective: the average LD of caffien ,for adults, is 10,000mg<or 10g> the average amt is 100mg/cup of arabica coffee less for expreso or ~100 cups or 100 wake up pills mdma is a thermalretainer and many rave drugs are as well<meth,k etc..> many of the deaths where thought to be caused by unpure adulterated x and lack of ventilation and water.



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 07-20-00 12:49 No 30894				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						Recently, two club kids from denmark died from taking Mitsubishis. The problem was that they didn't contain any MDMA, but instead a mixture of PMA and PMMA. I think many deaths can be attributed to various junk in the tablets, rather than MDMA overdose. http://rhodium.lycaeum.org



		blaztoff (Hive Bee) 07-21-00 05:41 No 31191				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						People mostly die from something other than e in thier pills if any at all. A lot of pills might have only 30-40 mg of real e in them. Also look at all the other drugs they are taking at the same time. Basically your body can only handle so much at once and mixing any drug is dangerous but that accumilated with other facts ,heat etc are the real danger. Me ive accidentely swallowed almost 2 grams before and well aside from bieng the most intense trip of my life and bieng high for 3 days im fine,(Pure i made it so i know it was)



		aquagirl (Hive Bee) 07-21-00 07:04 No 31213				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						I'm not as up on MDMA pharmacology as I am on amphetamine pharmacology- but there seems to be more idiosynchratic responses clinically than you'd expect (typically to dexedrine, as that's whats administered usually). Dosage can really vary psychological as well as physiologically. I imagine we will be seeing more documentation on this as the rampant abuse of the amphetamines spreads. Is this a potential factor? Or is the dose:response curve pretty even across the board on MDMA? I know you don't get the constant re-administration of E like you do on meth for the bulk of the population (too costly). Another afterthought- I've been noticing that yohimbine (or maybe just yohimbe extract) is popping up in more and more "smart drinks" here in the US. This presents is a very real danger of hyperthermia that the meth crowd seems to be aware of- I imagine the same warnings should apply to the E consuming rave crowd, yet I've never seen it mentioned in any of the "harm reduction" material (although admittedly I don't see nearly as much as many of you folks do). ====== retired. all posts are of a hypothetical nature for academic mental masturbation only.



		method (Hive Bee) 07-21-00 07:25 No 31226				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						Rhodium, According to www.dancesafe.com those mitsuibishi pills you were referring to were also responsable for deaths in Chicago over here in the US. The said the pills more than likely contained PMA.



		Methaco_s_mic (Newbee) 07-21-00 20:14 No 31445				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						Rhodium – Later they changed their mind and said the kids in Denmark died from pills containing 4-MTA. But I think that PMA/PMMA is more likely. The pills were a little less than 250mg each I believe (detailed newspaper!). Ha, today a man at the “social department” in Denmark said he thought they should legalize MDMA and that the manufactureing and selling should be government controlled. I don’t believe this will happen any time soon, to bad! -Methaco(s)mic



		consonant (Stranger) 07-22-00 01:01 No 31467				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						are 4-mta and pma not one and the same? 250mg is a shitload of pma, is it not? _ouch_, i'm surprised more problems didn't happen at that dosage. how high up was the man in the "social department" who suggested that mdma be made legal? god i can't wait to live in europe... people seem to actually think in the right direction! (on that topic, messages from any dutch bees who know anything about immigration would be much appreciated! i get the feeling that the official papers and promo info i have don't really give the best real-world perspective on getting into the country. hell, if any dutch bees could talk to me, period.. ! ;P my father was born there, but is now a naturalized australian - hopefully my hopes of getting in are still better than none..) (oh and apologies for the essentially useless post... just enjoyed my first meth iv rush (after shooting quite a few times now) and had to post something goddammit!!)



		psyloxy (Hive Bee) 07-22-00 01:33 No 31474				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						4-MTA is 4-methylthioamphetamine. Looks just like PMA only with an S in place of the O. 4-MTA is a MAOI (which makes it so dangerous). There's good article on 4-MTA on ecstasy.org. --psyloxy--



		Methaco_s_mic (Newbee) 07-24-00 17:57 No 32615				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						consonant – Well I don’t know how high up in the organization he was, but this was an unacceptable stand even in Denmark. In the more serious media (not the “head line type”) it was pointed out that this was his PERSONAL opinion and NOT the opinion of the social department… The 4-MTA nonsense story is probable due to a recent bust of this drug in my country, and the media believes this was the “bad drug” in Denmark too. -Methaco(s)mic



		consonant (Newbee) 07-25-00 04:43 No 32704				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						optimism says that if enough health problems are caused by 4-mta/pma/dxm/whatever in "E", the powers that be will eventually notice that there are essentially no fatalities due to the MDMA that so many folks are popping week after week. eventually someone in power must realise that prohibition is killing kiddies...!



		LD_50 (Stranger) 07-25-00 10:41 No 32816				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						there really is no evidence that x is bad or good,many of the studies are not controlled<they do not administer x, the test subjects do and as such the scientists do not have any controll over what the x the subjects gets might contain>. The instance of hospital emerg visits where the patient says the drug is x is increasing at an alarming rate, but blood tests are often not performed to validate the drug was actually x. but the really shitty thing is that gangs and cartels are starting to controll x and often mix meth and pcp with it in hopes of selling the better profit making meth instead of x. X is not addictive and is expensive so it is much better to sell meth and get your customers coming back again. Shit so much problems arise from the illigalization of some drugs...esp. when the gangs and cartels get involved...



		bizarium (Stranger) 07-25-00 14:13 No 32872				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						what do we know about these deaths? Compared to what, i ask? There is never a double blind test. I'm guessing you could have a rave wherein everyone stayed straight as an arrow, and someone would eventually die. Death happens. It can't always bee blamed on something. Sometimes, people just up and keel over. At the original woodstock, according to statistics, it is safer to trip naked and dance in the mud to weird bands than it is to stay home in the suburbs. The mother of all wars, in the gulf, was safer for our troops, by far, than staying home in the ghetto. Don't know about you all, but if i take too big a dose, i puke, thereby saving myself some trouble...even though, many times it has happened, i still get off about the same, puke or not. Anyone else have this happen?



		bizarium (Stranger) 07-25-00 14:21 No 32876				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						which really makes me wonder about the action of mdma. Its like a switch being thrown in the brain. In my experience, which has only been with the pure substance and too many times, over too many years, i always take about 1/6th gram. Sometimes i puke, sometimes not...the effects always being pretty similar. The bizarre part, to me, and the part i'd like to hear some feedback on, is this: when i puke, i can taste the nasty drug coming up. (Very distinctive flavor) The first many times it happened, i recall thinking "Oh, shit! I just lost my dose! now i won't get off well. But, always get off anyway. This is trying to tell me something. Anyone else have this experience? Anyone else wonder about the dynamic in the brain/stomach?



		Osmium (Moderator) 07-25-00 14:26 No 32877				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						When you throw up you took too much. Wasted material.



		placebo (Hive Addict) 07-25-00 14:53 No 32886				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						I find that if you throw up it is generally a result of the drug having been taken, and it starting to take effect. So I can throw up without fear of losing product as I know it is the result of it having been absorbed already! I have never thrown up before it coming on. I find the feeling like, someone has a hand around my stomach and slowly strangling it, same as large dose of meth! I can only imagine it has something to do with blood flow around stomach. The taste or aftertaste you speak of is only a residual effect and has never been any product to me. Kinda like a smelly burp hours after smelly food! One horny Bee!



		bizarium (Stranger) 07-25-00 16:29 No 32902				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						osmium. Like i said, always take same amount, always get off about the same, puke or not. Have tried lowereing dose to where there is no chance of puke, but find that i don't get off there. Still, part that intrigues me, which placebo addressed, is that i can taste the stuff coming up. Gotta admit, anyone who has tasted the straight stuff, that its pretty damned distinctive. Plus, i don't roll on a full stomach. True, i don't puke till i'm starting to get off. That's why i thought the mechanism might be like a switch...that once it starts, it keeps going, even if some of the material was removed. you guys are probably right. Still like to hear from others who have blew lunch on a roll. And somebody dose Hey-Man, will you? No need to bee that hostile. Plus, in the case i mentioned, he was dead wrong. Let's write it off to computor malfuntion, shall we? They are almost human, and seem to fuck up. Sorry to bring this up here, but heyman locked the other thread right after insulting me. Cheap stunt. You aren't my ex-wife, are you?



		bizarium (Stranger) 07-25-00 16:39 No 32904				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						i suppose, before sugesting some half-baked theory, that i would collect the puke next time and analyse it. not that romantic...plus i'm afraid the scientific curiosity at that moment might make me want to see puke with product, which is what i don't want to happen. Placebo...you sounded pretty surethat you lost no product. Did you test the barf? When i puke (hope this ain't too gross for anyone...i won't bee posting naked lardasses) i usually do it 3 times, and always taste the stuff pretty damn hard. More weird science is this: just writing this is making me feel like i'm getting off; and my stomach is queezy.



		Dick_Fitzbetter (Hive Bee) 07-25-00 16:48 No 32905				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						Next time you barf, try a/b'ing it and see what you get. Actually, you could probably just do a base extraction since the barf will already have a lot of HCl in it... ф¿ф



		Osmium (Moderator) 07-25-00 21:12 No 33003				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						You take your drugs on a full or semi full stomach??? Don't! Don't eat anything for several hours prior to taking the drug! A full stomach will absorb way too much of it, that's why you puke at all and it tastes like honey. Take it on an empty stomach and you will need much less and be just as high. Thought that were obvious to everybody.



		xyzibe3 (Newbee) 07-26-00 01:17 No 33109				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						It is one of the only times when you feel deluxe when you puke. I always tell 1st time xers not to be surprised if they puke. I tell them if the urge hits don't fight it cause it will be the finest blow they ever had. HAVE YOU LICKED YOUR FROG LATELY ?



		Penis_Seinfeld (Hive Bee) 07-26-00 01:37 No 33118				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						Stimulation of 5-HT3 receptors causes vomitting (emesis). MDMA, as you all know, is a fairly potent releaser of serotonin. Why it only happens sometimes, I dunno. Could be your diet during that particular week, etc... So if you atart vomitting, you can be sure that a good portion of the goodies has already been absorbed. PS -- Chairman of the IAADCMSWMC and President of the MH Society



		bizarium (Stranger) 07-26-00 03:03 No 33154				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						osmium: no, i said i don't roll on a full stomach. Not that stupid. But i'm willing to drop this line of questioning, as it seems to bee causing misunderstanding. I'll agree though, that puking while getting off on a roll, is the best pukin one could ask for. In my case, it usually comes out of nowwhere, with almost no warning, and is over just as quick...utterly unlike preying to the porcelin goddess. For me, the difference between a full dose and less than that is quite significant. Half doses, for instance, in my experience, are worse than no dose at all. All the side effects without the empathy; all dressed up and nowhere to go. I'm not someone with a touchy stomach either. Oddly, i have taken 400 mg. without puking, and gotten no higher than a more appropriate dose. Anyone else notice a ceiling of effects on this substance? I was lucky (or not) to get in on some guinae pigging for chemists looking for feedback.



		LD_50 (Stranger) 07-26-00 17:00 No 33404				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						I was reading that mdma releases all of the seratonin reserves into the synaptic cleft. So it would seem likely that a higher dose would do little. I guess mdma is also partially responsible for blocking serotonin reductase?or pluging the reuptake neuro transmiters.



		psyloxy (Hive Bee) 07-26-00 17:15 No 33408				Re: Ecstasy related deaths
						If you take more MDMA then there is 5HT left, it will only feel like speed. --psyloxy--



		lugh (Moderator) 08-14-04 00:07 No 525335				Preventing Problems in Ecstasy Users (Rated as: excellent)
						This article from Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 34(2) pp 145-152 (2002) provides a compilation of the results of various studies on reducing harmful effects from ingesting MDMA Preventing Problems in Ecstasy Users: Reduce Use to Reduce Harm Matthew J. Baggott, B.A. Abstract Increasing use of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetantine (MDMA, "Ecstasy") has been accompanied by concern about acute and possible long-term toxicity. This article discusses acute serious toxicity, chronic toxicity, and common problems associated with Ecstasy use, as well as the implications of these areas for prevention programs targeted at current Ecstasy users. The low incidence of serious adverse events in users creates difficulties for attempts to develop harm reduction recommendations. Many hypothesized risk factors for serious adverse events cannot be confirmed or denied and may not be associated with dramatic elevations in risk. Research on chronic toxicity in users provides strong evidence of neurophysiological changes and suggestive evidence of possible neurocognitive changes. Because these worrisome changes are clinically subtle, users may not be influenced by concerns of neurotoxicity. In contrast, common Ecstasy-related complaints are relatively well documented and have identified risk factors, including factors relating to extent of Ecstasy use (such as "binges"). Common complaints include modest acute and subacute adverse effects, some lasting several days, and problems in life. The apparent willingness of users to modify drug use and other behaviors to decrease these common problems could be used by harm reduction or other prevention programs to encourage users to decrease the extent of Ecstasy use. Chemistry is our Covalent Bond



		Xaja (Hive Bee) 08-14-04 20:10 No 525421				SWIX's friend was second death attributed...
						SWIX's friend was the second death attributed to X overdose in a certain country. SWIX wasn't with him at the party that night but according to both toxicology and friends present at said party it seems he had taken magic mushrooms, X, lots and lots and lots of alcohol, smoked few joints, and may have taken an acid trip also. Another contributing factor (or perhaps even the major cause) was that hell fell and hit his head hard on concrete or other hard surface shortly before he began convulsing and died. The authorities contributed the death to X. What a fucken joke! Its analogous to someone driving a car at high speed in wet conditions with bald tyres on a smooth surface road, crashing fatally, and attributing the death to the fact that one of the headlights wasn't working. It may have contributed, but it is non-sensical to claim it was the major cause without very clear evidence. But the beez are used to such bullshit by now and will take it in stride while the flask refluxes. A side point: SWIX has had the odd X tab that just makes him sweat like hell and feel kinda poisoned. Although mildly pleasant in some way def not X but one of the analogues or something else. People who do this suck if they do not let the buyer know what they are getting! *FriedPiper* "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on"

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