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All 8 posts   Subject: Electro solvent   Please login to post   Down

 
    masterofpuppets
(Hive Bee)
12-31-01 01:23
No 251467
User Picture 
      Electro solvent     

If one was having difficulty finding a solvent to disolve a substance, could a certain bee just use a solvent with a similar specific gravity to the substance to hold it, and then carry out an electrolysis reaction.

I guess that simply, what I am asking is whether or not a substance has to be disolved in a solvent for it to be electrically reduced.

You are unique....just like everyone else.......
 
 
 
 
    terbium
(Old P2P Cook)
12-31-01 06:09
No 251530
      Re: Electro solvent     

If one was having difficulty finding a solvent to disolve a substance, could a certain bee just use a solvent with a similar specific gravity to the substance to hold it, and then carry out an electrolysis reaction.
No.

I guess that simply, what I am asking is whether or not a substance has to be disolved in a solvent for it to be electrically reduced.
Yes.


Still trying to electroreduce phenylalanine?
 
 
 
 
    masterofpuppets
(Hive Bee)
01-01-02 07:42
No 251710
User Picture 
      Re: Electro solvent     

Hey, why would I ever want to electro reduce phenylalanine???  I mean, what would be the point of that??? tongue

Although, if one did want to do that, how would u suggest that one solves the problem of a solvent?

Oh, found an electro chem book that mentioned that in concentrated sulfuric acid (60+%) that carboxylic acids could be reduced at a lead electrode.  Anyone heard/tried this??

You are unique....just like everyone else.......
 
 
 
 
    Prdy2GO
(Hive Bee)
01-02-02 06:08
No 251891
      Re: Electro solvent     

Oh, found an electro chem book that mentioned that in concentrated sulfuric acid (60+%) that carboxylic acids could be reduced at a lead electrode.  Anyone heard/tried this??

Yes what about it?

Don't look at me I didn't do it!
 
 
 
 
    joyman
(Hive Bee)
01-02-02 07:43
No 251910
      Re: Electro solvent     

master,

whats wrong with propelyene carbonate?. from what i read although phenylalanine is only slightly soluble, wouldnt it make sense to just use small ammounts gaa to keep the ratio in molar order (ie a 1/3 phenylalanine to acetic - need an excess to avoid phenylalanine forming a dimer with itself). you would then have very weak solution of phenylalanine and gaa. you could continuously add the acetic acid as it gets used up and as more phenylalanine disolves. i dont see that the fact phenylalanine is only slightly soluble is a real problem (make it a process of continuously adding phenylalanine and gaa). - but then im no chemist.

whats this reduction your talking about? - sounds interesting - is it to an alcohol or all the way to Me.
 
 
 
 
    foxy2
(Distinctive Doe)
01-02-02 07:59
No 251917
      Re: Electro solvent     

Ummm, Are these guys trying to do what master wants?
laughsmilecool  This article looks like the shit

Strategy for controlling the Kolbe electrosynthesis in the presence of aromatic fragments and amino groups in the molecule.    
Smirnova, N. V.; Neganova, E. G.; Astaf'ev, E. A.; Petrii, O. A.; Tsirlina, G. A.; Beletskaya, I. P.   
Southern Russian State Technical University,  Russia.
Russ. J. Electrochem.  (2001),  37(9),  893-898. 
Journal  written in English.   

Abstract
A general characteristic of processes that occur during anodic oxidn. of phenylacetic and phenylpropionic acids and derivs. of a- and b-amino acids on platinum electrodes in methanol and mixed pyridine-methanol solns. is given.  From preparative electrolyzes in stagnant and flow-through reactors, conditions are detd. under which the dimerization (Kolbe electrosynthesis) is least complicated by the formation of polymer products.  Properties of removed electrodes, on which stable polymer films formed during the electrosynthesis, are examd.  For films formed in certain conditions on the cathode, the presence of a quasi-reversible redox transition is demonstrated.  Such films contain disperse platinum codeposited with polymer as a result of the anode dissoln. in the cells with common compartments.  In principle, the film-modified electrodes can be used for controlling anodic decarboxylation.

Citations
1) Schafer, H; Comprehensive Organic Synthesis: Selectivity, Strategy, and Efficiency in Modern Organic Chemistry 1991, 3, 633
2) Eberson, L; Organic Electrochemistry: An Introduction and a Guide 1973
3) Weiper-Idelmann, A; Acta Chem Scand 1998, 52, 672
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13) Andrieux, C; J Am Chem Soc 1997, 119, 4292
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21) Anon; Electroactive Polymer Electrochemistry 1994
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22) Fedorova, A; Elektrokhimiya 1967, 3, 742



Emulsion electrosynthesis in the presence of power ultrasound. Biphasic Kolbe coupling processes at platinum and boron-doped diamond electrodes.    
Wadhawan, J. D.; Del Campo, F. J.; Compton, R. G.; Foord, J. S.; Marken, F.; Bull, S. D.; Davies, S. G.; Walton, D. J.; Ryley, S.   
Physical and Theoretical Chemistry Laboratory,  Oxford University,  Oxford,  UK.   
J. Electroanal. Chem.  (2001),  507(1-2),  135-143.
 
Abstract
The electrochem. oxidn. of aliph. carboxylic acids, hexanoic, heptanoic, and lauric acid, under biphasic conditions was studied as a model system for ultrasound enhanced Kolbe electrosynthesis processes.  Power ultrasound was used to generate an in situ emulsified medium and to remove reaction products continuously from the electrode surface.  A clean and highly efficient process at platinum electrodes with formation of 'one electron' products only occurs in marked contrast to processes in monophasic media.  For hexanoic acid the Kolbe dimer product R-R is formed in up to 75% yield with 45% current efficiency at 0.18 A cm-2 c.d. and in the presence of 190 W cm-2 ultrasound.  The mechanism is explained in terms of a dynamically modified electrode surface, at which hydrophobic products are immediately 'trapped' via partitioning into a nonpolar org. phase and transported away into the emulsion system.  Kolbe electrosynthesis is undertaken both at platinum electrodes and at free-standing polycryst. boron-doped diamond electrodes, to minimize the surface erosion effect induced by power ultrasound.  The type and yield of products obtained from the biphasic Kolbe electrolysis process at diamond electrodes are essentially identical to those obsd. at platinum and based on this observation, the presence of a biphasic reaction layer at the electrode surface is postulated to govern the process. 

Citations
1) Fees, H; Techniques of Electroorganic Synthesis Part 3 1981, 81
2) Rusling, J; J Electroanal Chem 1997, 439, 89
3) Carrero, H; Electrochim Acta 1999, 45, 503
4) Schweizer, S; Chemosphere 1994, 28, 961
5) Marken, F; Chem Commun 1997, 955
6) Marken, F; Electrochim Acta 1998, 43, 2157
7) Ackermans, R; Chem Commun 1999, 1115
8) Atobe, M; Denki Kagaku 1998, 66, 556
9) Behrend, O; Ultrason Sonochem 2000, 7, 77
10) Ludwig, H; Wiss Z Techn Univ Dresden 1990, 39, 163
11) Walton, D; Adv Sonochem 1996, 4, 205
12) Compton, R; Electroanalysis 1997, 9, 509
13) Marken, F; J Electroanal Chem 1996, 415, 55
14) Kado, Y; Electrochemistry 2000, 68, 262
15) Mason, T; Sonochemistry: Theory, Applications and Uses of Ultrasound in Chemistry 1988
16) Atobe, M; Electrochemistry 1999, 67, 1114
17) Fujiwara, H; J Chin Chem Soc 1998, 45, 175
18) Chyla, A; Chem Commun 1989, 603
19) Walton, D; Ultrason Sonochem 1994, 1, S23
20) Pleskov, Y; Russ Chem Rev 1999, 68, 381
21) Swain, G; MRS Bull 1998, 23, 56
22) Fujishima, A; J Electroanal Chem 1999, 473, 179
23) Goeting, C; J Electroanal Chem 1998, 442, 207
24) Angus, J; Front Carbon Technol 1999, 9, 175
25) Okino, F; Electrochem Solid State Lett 1999, 2, 382
26) Goeting, C; New Diam Front Carbon Technol 1999, 9, 207
27) Gandini, D; New Diam Front Carbon Technol 1999, 9, 303
28) Marken, F; Ultrason Sonochem 1996, 3, S131
29) Compton, R; Chem Commun 1998, 1961
30) Saterlay, A; Electroanalysis 1999, 11, 1083
31) Jacob, S; Thesis Oxford University 1997
32) Fichter, F; Helv Chim Acta 1927, 10, 869
33) Fichter, F; Helv Chim Acta 1935, 18, 445
34) Brockman, C; Electroorganic Chemistry 1926
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39) Saterlay, A; Analyst 1999, 124, 1791
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41) Utley, J; Techniques of Electroorganic Synthesis Part 1 1981
42) Buback, M; Z Phys Chem 1997, 199, 229
43) Fujimori, K; Organic Peroxides 1992, 319
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Novel synthesis of some specialty chemicals by electroorganic reaction.     Nishiguchi, Ikuzo; Hirahsima, Tsuneaki; Shundo, Ryushi; Matsubara, Yoshiharu.    Osaka Munic. Tech. Res. Inst.,  Osaka,  Japan.  Editor(s): Little, R. Daniel; Weinberg, Norman L.    Electroorg. Synth., [Manuel M. Baizer Meml. Symp.]  (1991),  Meeting Date 1990,     331-9.  Publisher: Dekker,  New York, N. Y
General Review  written in English.
  
Abstract
New electrosynthetic methods are reviewed for some specialty chems., such as synthesis of Nojigiku alc. from tricyclene, stereoselective cleavage of polycyclic methylcyclopropanes by anodic oxidn. synthesis of bis(4-nitrophenyl)sulfone and bis(4-nitrophenyl)sulfoxide by anodic oxidn. and synthesis of penicillanic acid derivs. by electrooxidn.  Novel synthesis of 1-triacontanol by mixed Kolbe's coupling and electroreductive C-acylation of arom. carboxylic acids and epinephrine derivs. are described.

 

Foxy STILL needs to get laid!!!
 
 
 
 
    masterofpuppets
(Hive Bee)
01-03-02 08:05
No 252182
User Picture 
      Re: Electro solvent     

Prdy2GO: I was curious if it would "go all the way" to reducing the cooh to ch3.

Everyone else although both DMF and propylene carbonate work as solvents, I am attempting to find ways to make this synth work which is totally OTC/just using very common chems - therefore preventing restriction by the nasty authorities.



You are unique....just like everyone else.......
 
 
 
 
    PolytheneSam
(Master Searcher)
06-03-02 00:03
No 316963
User Picture 
      >Oh, found an electro chem book that mentioned ...     

>Oh, found an electro chem book that mentioned that in concentrated sulfuric acid (60+%) that carboxylic acids could be reduced at a lead electrode.  Anyone heard/tried this??

I have a reference on an experiment where benzoic acid (in dilute sulfuric acid) is reduced electrochemically to benzyl alcohol using a prepared lead cathode.

http://www.geocities.com/dritte123/PSPF.html
The hardest thing to explain is the obvious
 
 

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