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All 18 posts Subject: 2C-H - N-(2-(2,5-dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalimide Please login to post Down

del72
(Stranger)
07-04-03 05:08
No 444411
      2C-H - N-(2-(2,5-dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalimide

Well it may not be novel but I certainly could not find any info on tfse or google that outlined this exact synthesis so if not novel enough I suppose it can be moved.

This is by no means the most efficient way to produce 2CH but aquiring the needed materials is much easier, and there are less opportunities for failure.
In Shulgins 2CI preparation he iodinates this:    (N-(2-(2,5-dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalamide) using iodine monochloride and then using hydrazine hydrate in IPA gets 2CI. Swid hears that one make 2CH using this intermediate. So swid assumes that if one did not iodonate this but went ahead and followed the rest of the proceedure ala' Shulgin(adjusting molar ratios accordingly of course) then one would be left with 2CH correct?

As I said if the yeilds are similar to the 2CI yeilds reported from this reaction then this is not the most efficient route to 2CH, but it is VERY easy, and the precursers are not listed, and it does not take a lot of time. The 2CH may cost twice as much in the end but it is still dirt fucking cheap so wtf.

Just wanted to run this one by the pro's and and get some feedback. If this indeed sounds good then it is a wonderfully easy route to 2CH for us semi-newbies.

Any suggestions/warnings/flames/etc are welcome!

enlightenment through chemistry

del72
(Stranger)
07-04-03 05:29
No 444414
      Ok swid feels really stupid now.

Ok swid feels really stupid now. The reason there was no info when he utfse is because he spelled N-(2-(2,5-dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalimide) wrong. Ever so sorry for posting this already discussed topic on the novel routes forum.

But if anybody cares to answer the question feel free to anyway- so one would simply skip the iodination and proceed with the hydrazine hydrate to yeild 2CH? (again assuming that the molar ratios are adjusted properly?)

thanks

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
07-04-03 15:23
No 444501
User Picture       Removal of N-phtalimido protection groups

Yes, if you want to get 2C-H, then that's the way. But if you want to make 2C-B it's much better to brominate the N-phtalimido substituted 2C-H and hydrolyze afterwards. The phtalimido group will protect the nitrogen from reacting with the bromine.

del72
(Stranger)
07-04-03 19:48
No 444539
      Ok so since swid finally spelt the shit right...

Ok so since swid finally spelt the shit right he comes upon a post discussing the us of ethanolamine to hydrolyze. Swid is ever hesitant to go charging ahead without a layed out synthesis. Vibrating lights posted this workup in Post 404393 (Vibrating_Lights: "Will the ring of the phlactamide group also...", Chemistry Discourse)

15 gms(.048m) of N-(2-(2,5 Dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalimide is placed into 50ml MEOH with 1.02gms(.01m)KBr. Then the solution is stirred while .01m of Oxone(aq) is added. The solution is stirred till completeion. 2ml of (aq)Sodiumbisulfite is added then the rxn is basified with 25%NaOH and extracted 3x50ml of DCM. Dcm extracts are washed with Bisulfate again then once with NaHCO2. The Dcm is removed under vaccume to give N-(2-(4
bromo-2,5-Dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalimide. (.048m) 15 gms N-(2-(4 Bromo-2,5-Dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalimide Is refluxed in ethanolamine for 20 mins. Then the rxn is flooded with water. The amine is extractred with 3x50ml of dcm and the residue distilled under N2 to give 2CB. 2CB freebase is then treated with .045m of 20% HCL.

Ok well this is a somewhat experimental workup. If the above indeed sounds good, what amount of ethanolamine would you bees suggest? Does the above sound good to more experienced bee's?   Also does anybody that has tried making 2CH or halogenated phenethylamine using this route(with ethanolamine) have any suggestions for a less experienced bee?

Swids friend has few hundred g's of the N-(2-(2,5 Dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalimide coming next week. There is no turning back now without losing money out the ass. If swid can post a success with this project then ANYBODY who is semi competant will be assured success. Will post results, when results are known.

Many thanks

ApOstLe oF cHaoS

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
07-05-03 00:03
No 444575
User Picture       Link & Search

Could you please link to the post you are talking about (you do that by putting the post number in square brackets, [XXXXXX]

Also, if you search for ethanolamine and phtalimide you will find the original patent where Vibrating_Lights pulled that procedure from, and there you can probably find the details you are looking for.

del72
(Stranger)
07-05-03 01:01
No 444591
      The post I was referring to was: Post 404393...

The post I was referring to was:
Post 404393 (Vibrating_Lights: "Will the ring of the phlactamide group also...", Chemistry Discourse)

There was a link to the patent office from that thread, I have not done much searching on that website, but when I clicked the link there are no details about quantities or anything like that, it simply says that alkanolamines can be used to hydrolyze pthalimides, but I did not find any specific proceedures, perhaps I missed something, I will check. Thanks

ApoStLe oF cHaoS

Antibody2
(Hive Addict)
07-05-03 01:32
No 444597
      0.01m KBr is not eneough to brominate 0.048m...

0.01m KBr is not eneough to brominate 0.048m of your precurser. also the mol weight of the brominated product will be much greater.

Eh? ma faut n'exist pas.

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
07-05-03 02:11
No 444606
User Picture       Suggested amounts

The patent listed by PolytheneSam at the top of that thread does indeed give suggested amounts of ethanolamine to use. I have posted the relevant parts of that patent in Post 444604 (Rhodium: "Cleavage of phthalimides to amines w/ Ethanolamine", Chemistry Discourse) - but to get all the details you should read the patent itself (link available in my post)

del72
(Stranger)
07-05-03 08:40
No 444656
      Rhodium- Thanks much for that link to your...

Rhodium- Thanks much for posting that reply in the thread relating to that patent. That cleared things up. The reason I did not find that info when I clicked the link to the patent office is because I failed to click the desc tab or any others for that matter. All you get when you click the link is a quick description(you can tell I do not search patents much). I need to increase my fse skills, I simply searched for the pthalimide compound that I was talking about using instead of searching for info on hydrolyzing phalimides in general OR searching for the use of ethanolamine, as a result I missed a lot of needed info. Ok good deal, I will post results as soon as my friend has them.

Thanks for the input! smile

Enlightenment through chemistry

Lilienthal
(Moderator)
07-05-03 10:43
No 444667
User Picture       Ethanolamine phthalimide cleavage

Ethanolamine has been used in phthalimide cleavage with yields from 82 to 90% for 2 h at 60°C in:

J. Med. Chem. 42(9): 1648 (1999)

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
07-05-03 22:07
No 444763
User Picture       Cleavage of phtalimides to primary amines
(Rated as: good read)

Ethanolamine has been used in phthalimide cleavage with yields from 82 to 90% for 2 h at 60°C in:

Cleavage of Phtalimide protection groups to primary amines
J. Med. Chem. 42(9), 1648-1660 (1999) (https://www.rhodium.ws/pdf/phtalimide.removal.ethanolamine.pdf)

del72
(Stranger)
07-05-03 23:12
No 444775
      Your link is not working

Hey rhodium, that link is not working, all I get is an error message that says that the page requsted is not found on this server or something like that. I will just do a search from your site and see if that pulls it up.

Enlightenment through chemistry

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
07-06-03 00:29
No 444792
User Picture       The link has been fixed.

The link has been fixed.

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
12-08-03 12:37
No 475416
      Mild Phtalimide Deprotection using NaBH4
(Rated as: excellent)

An Exceptionally Mild Phtalimide Deprotection of Amines
J. O. Osby, M. G. Martin & B. Ganem
Tet. Lett. 25(20) 2093-96 (1984) (https://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/phtalimide.deprotection.nabh4.html)

Summary
Phthalimides are converted to primary amines in an efficient, two-stage, one-flask operation using NaBH4/2-propanol, then acetic acid.

Xicori
(Hive Bee)
12-08-03 13:42
No 475425
      nice one, Rhodium! ;) are there good ways to...

nice one, Rhodium! ;)

are there good ways to alkylate p-Dimethoxybenzene with N-(2-Bromoethyl)-phthalimide ala Friedel Craft in a relatively good yield?

i couldnt find good procedures using TFSE... crazy

best wishes,
xicori

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
12-08-03 15:12
No 475441
User Picture       N-(2-Bromoethyl)-phthalimide FC

I have never seen any friedel-crafts reactions involving N-(2-Bromoethyl)-phthalimide - have you?

Xicori
(Hive Bee)
12-08-03 15:47
No 475450
      yes, i think to remember something like ...

yes, i think to remember something like that...

wouldn´t it be possible with a very mild lewis acid as catalysator?

Edit:

Here is the post i´ve been searching for:
Post 414539 (ChemisTris: "Abstract", Novel Discourse)
But they use substituted phenoles as substrate. It may be possible with plain 1,4-Dimethoxybenzene too.

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
12-08-03 19:06
No 475475
User Picture       not dimethoxy, but what about hydroquinone?

Well, take a look at the comments made in Post 414798 (Antoncho: "Some useful additions to the posted above....", Novel Discourse)

As a side note, .... It is obvious that the low yield in the 1st amino alkylation is due to the low reactivity of the starting phenol, not to its sensitivity..... Bad news.....(that is, we can't use fully methylated precursors).

I don't think you would be able to exceed 50% yield even by using 4-Methoxyphenol - but then again, why not alkylate hydroquinone with N-(2-Bromoethyl)-Phtalimide? Methylation followed by removal of the phtalimide group could very well give high yields of 2C-H.

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	All 18 posts		Subject: 2C-H - N-(2-(2,5-dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalimide		Please login to post		Down


		del72 (Stranger) 07-04-03 05:08 No 444411				2C-H - N-(2-(2,5-dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalimide
						Well it may not be novel but I certainly could not find any info on tfse or google that outlined this exact synthesis so if not novel enough I suppose it can be moved. This is by no means the most efficient way to produce 2CH but aquiring the needed materials is much easier, and there are less opportunities for failure. In Shulgins 2CI preparation he iodinates this: (N-(2-(2,5-dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalamide) using iodine monochloride and then using hydrazine hydrate in IPA gets 2CI. Swid hears that one make 2CH using this intermediate. So swid assumes that if one did not iodonate this but went ahead and followed the rest of the proceedure ala' Shulgin(adjusting molar ratios accordingly of course) then one would be left with 2CH correct? As I said if the yeilds are similar to the 2CI yeilds reported from this reaction then this is not the most efficient route to 2CH, but it is VERY easy, and the precursers are not listed, and it does not take a lot of time. The 2CH may cost twice as much in the end but it is still dirt fucking cheap so wtf. Just wanted to run this one by the pro's and and get some feedback. If this indeed sounds good then it is a wonderfully easy route to 2CH for us semi-newbies. Any suggestions/warnings/flames/etc are welcome! enlightenment through chemistry



		del72 (Stranger) 07-04-03 05:29 No 444414				Ok swid feels really stupid now.
						Ok swid feels really stupid now. The reason there was no info when he utfse is because he spelled N-(2-(2,5-dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalimide) wrong. Ever so sorry for posting this already discussed topic on the novel routes forum. But if anybody cares to answer the question feel free to anyway- so one would simply skip the iodination and proceed with the hydrazine hydrate to yeild 2CH? (again assuming that the molar ratios are adjusted properly?) thanks



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 07-04-03 15:23 No 444501				Removal of N-phtalimido protection groups
						Yes, if you want to get 2C-H, then that's the way. But if you want to make 2C-B it's much better to brominate the N-phtalimido substituted 2C-H and hydrolyze afterwards. The phtalimido group will protect the nitrogen from reacting with the bromine.



		del72 (Stranger) 07-04-03 19:48 No 444539				Ok so since swid finally spelt the shit right...
						Ok so since swid finally spelt the shit right he comes upon a post discussing the us of ethanolamine to hydrolyze. Swid is ever hesitant to go charging ahead without a layed out synthesis. Vibrating lights posted this workup in Post 404393 (Vibrating_Lights: "Will the ring of the phlactamide group also...", Chemistry Discourse) 15 gms(.048m) of N-(2-(2,5 Dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalimide is placed into 50ml MEOH with 1.02gms(.01m)KBr. Then the solution is stirred while .01m of Oxone(aq) is added. The solution is stirred till completeion. 2ml of (aq)Sodiumbisulfite is added then the rxn is basified with 25%NaOH and extracted 3x50ml of DCM. Dcm extracts are washed with Bisulfate again then once with NaHCO2. The Dcm is removed under vaccume to give N-(2-(4 bromo-2,5-Dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalimide. (.048m) 15 gms N-(2-(4 Bromo-2,5-Dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalimide Is refluxed in ethanolamine for 20 mins. Then the rxn is flooded with water. The amine is extractred with 3x50ml of dcm and the residue distilled under N2 to give 2CB. 2CB freebase is then treated with .045m of 20% HCL. Ok well this is a somewhat experimental workup. If the above indeed sounds good, what amount of ethanolamine would you bees suggest? Does the above sound good to more experienced bee's? Also does anybody that has tried making 2CH or halogenated phenethylamine using this route(with ethanolamine) have any suggestions for a less experienced bee? Swids friend has few hundred g's of the N-(2-(2,5 Dimethoxyphenyl)ethyl)phthalimide coming next week. There is no turning back now without losing money out the ass. If swid can post a success with this project then ANYBODY who is semi competant will be assured success. Will post results, when results are known. Many thanks ApOstLe oF cHaoS



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 07-05-03 00:03 No 444575				Link & Search
						Could you please link to the post you are talking about (you do that by putting the post number in square brackets, [XXXXXX] Also, if you search for ethanolamine and phtalimide you will find the original patent where Vibrating_Lights pulled that procedure from, and there you can probably find the details you are looking for.



		del72 (Stranger) 07-05-03 01:01 No 444591				The post I was referring to was: Post 404393...
						The post I was referring to was: Post 404393 (Vibrating_Lights: "Will the ring of the phlactamide group also...", Chemistry Discourse) There was a link to the patent office from that thread, I have not done much searching on that website, but when I clicked the link there are no details about quantities or anything like that, it simply says that alkanolamines can be used to hydrolyze pthalimides, but I did not find any specific proceedures, perhaps I missed something, I will check. Thanks ApoStLe oF cHaoS



		Antibody2 (Hive Addict) 07-05-03 01:32 No 444597				0.01m KBr is not eneough to brominate 0.048m...
						0.01m KBr is not eneough to brominate 0.048m of your precurser. also the mol weight of the brominated product will be much greater. Eh? ma faut n'exist pas.



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 07-05-03 02:11 No 444606				Suggested amounts
						The patent listed by PolytheneSam at the top of that thread does indeed give suggested amounts of ethanolamine to use. I have posted the relevant parts of that patent in Post 444604 (Rhodium: "Cleavage of phthalimides to amines w/ Ethanolamine", Chemistry Discourse) - but to get all the details you should read the patent itself (link available in my post)



		del72 (Stranger) 07-05-03 08:40 No 444656				Rhodium- Thanks much for that link to your...
						Rhodium- Thanks much for posting that reply in the thread relating to that patent. That cleared things up. The reason I did not find that info when I clicked the link to the patent office is because I failed to click the desc tab or any others for that matter. All you get when you click the link is a quick description(you can tell I do not search patents much). I need to increase my fse skills, I simply searched for the pthalimide compound that I was talking about using instead of searching for info on hydrolyzing phalimides in general OR searching for the use of ethanolamine, as a result I missed a lot of needed info. Ok good deal, I will post results as soon as my friend has them. Thanks for the input! Enlightenment through chemistry



		Lilienthal (Moderator) 07-05-03 10:43 No 444667				Ethanolamine phthalimide cleavage
						Ethanolamine has been used in phthalimide cleavage with yields from 82 to 90% for 2 h at 60°C in: J. Med. Chem. 42(9): 1648 (1999)



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 07-05-03 22:07 No 444763				Cleavage of phtalimides to primary amines (Rated as: good read)
						Ethanolamine has been used in phthalimide cleavage with yields from 82 to 90% for 2 h at 60°C in: Cleavage of Phtalimide protection groups to primary amines J. Med. Chem. 42(9), 1648-1660 (1999) (https://www.rhodium.ws/pdf/phtalimide.removal.ethanolamine.pdf)



		del72 (Stranger) 07-05-03 23:12 No 444775				Your link is not working
						Hey rhodium, that link is not working, all I get is an error message that says that the page requsted is not found on this server or something like that. I will just do a search from your site and see if that pulls it up. Enlightenment through chemistry



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 07-06-03 00:29 No 444792				The link has been fixed.
						The link has been fixed.



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 12-08-03 12:37 No 475416				Mild Phtalimide Deprotection using NaBH4 (Rated as: excellent)
						An Exceptionally Mild Phtalimide Deprotection of Amines J. O. Osby, M. G. Martin & B. Ganem Tet. Lett. 25(20) 2093-96 (1984) (https://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/phtalimide.deprotection.nabh4.html) Summary Phthalimides are converted to primary amines in an efficient, two-stage, one-flask operation using NaBH4/2-propanol, then acetic acid.



		Xicori (Hive Bee) 12-08-03 13:42 No 475425				nice one, Rhodium! ;) are there good ways to...
						nice one, Rhodium! ;) are there good ways to alkylate p-Dimethoxybenzene with N-(2-Bromoethyl)-phthalimide ala Friedel Craft in a relatively good yield? i couldnt find good procedures using TFSE... best wishes, xicori



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 12-08-03 15:12 No 475441				N-(2-Bromoethyl)-phthalimide FC
						I have never seen any friedel-crafts reactions involving N-(2-Bromoethyl)-phthalimide - have you?



		Xicori (Hive Bee) 12-08-03 15:47 No 475450				yes, i think to remember something like ...
						yes, i think to remember something like that... wouldn´t it be possible with a very mild lewis acid as catalysator? Edit: Here is the post i´ve been searching for: Post 414539 (ChemisTris: "Abstract", Novel Discourse) But they use substituted phenoles as substrate. It may be possible with plain 1,4-Dimethoxybenzene too.



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 12-08-03 19:06 No 475475				not dimethoxy, but what about hydroquinone?
						Well, take a look at the comments made in Post 414798 (Antoncho: "Some useful additions to the posted above....", Novel Discourse) As a side note, .... It is obvious that the low yield in the 1st amino alkylation is due to the low reactivity of the starting phenol, not to its sensitivity..... Bad news.....(that is, we can't use fully methylated precursors). I don't think you would be able to exceed 50% yield even by using 4-Methoxyphenol - but then again, why not alkylate hydroquinone with N-(2-Bromoethyl)-Phtalimide? Methylation followed by removal of the phtalimide group could very well give high yields of 2C-H.

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