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	Methods Discourse

	All 33 posts		Subject: Synthesis of para-fluoro-(4-methylaminorex)		Please login to post		Down

		Bandil (you can always take some more) 10-14-03 21:25 No 464621				Synthesis of para-fluoro-(4-methylaminorex) (Rated as: good read)
						Para-fluoro-(4-methylaminorex) writeup Theoretical route: The synthesis of the title compound is intended to proceed from the precursor para-flurobenzaldehyde. Using the following method (https://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/phenyl-2-nitropropanol.html), the nitroalcohol is to be formed. A 1:1,2:1 molar ratio of benzaldehyde : nitroethane : triethylamine will be used in a proper solvent. The product is to be reduced with Zn/formic acid to the aminoalcohol, which is to be reacted with sodiumcyanate, to make the carbamyl-intermediate. This may or may not be isolated and then further reacted with hydrochlorid acid, to form the oxazoline ring. Practical experience: Condensation: 10 grammes(0,0806 moles) of para-fluorobenzaldehyde(99%+ purity, 124,11 g/mole) was mixed with 15 mL’s of methanol in a 100 mL Erlenmeyer flask, and put in the fridge and refrigerated till the temperature was –10 degrees celcius. Fortunately the benzaldehyde was soluble at these low temperatures, which means that the reaction can be conducted as originally intended. In a separate beaker, 7,3 grammes(0,0967 moles) of nitroethane(75 g/mole) was mixed with 8,14 grammes(0,0806 moles) of triethylamine(99%+ purity, 101 g/mole). This was also cooled to –10 degrees. Once the mixture was cooled satisfyingly, the contents from the beaker with nitroethane/triethylamine was poured into the Erlenmeyer flask with the fluoro-benzaldehyde. This was swirled a few times, and put back in the freezer. Once every 30 min’s it was taken out and swirled. The color of the mixture went from totally clear to yellowish over the course of the 2½ hours, which the reaction was allowed to run. Once the reaction was complete(2½ hours), the amine was quenched with an 1,1 equimolar amount of GAA., while the reaction mixture was still cool. It is very important to quench the reaction while it is still very cold, as the isomers will reach an equilibrium once the temperature rises, if there still is active catalyst present. Most of the solvent was stripped under vacuum, and the remains where dissolved in DCM and washed two times with water and once with brine. The DCM was stripped, leaving behind about 15 grammes of the crude nitroalcohol. Reduction: The nitroalcohol was reduced in the usual manner, by Zn/formic acid. This (https://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/nitro2amine.zn-formate.html) method was used, with the following amounts: 15 grammes crude nitroalcohol 100 mL methanol 18,6 grammes of Zinc 70 mL’s of formic acid After filtering the reaction mixture, a slightly reddish liquid remained. Most of the solvent was stripped, and the remains where dissolved in 100 mL’s water and acidified with hydrochloric acid to pH 2(for some reason it was almost neutral, even though a huge excess of formic acid was used; maybe the zinc ate most of it?). The mixture was nearly pink at this point. This was washed twice with DCM to give a very pale red-tinted solution. Upon basification of this mixture, a lot of inorganic salts precipitated. This has probably been some Zinc salts of some sort.  The whole lot was extracted once with chloroform and twice with DCM. After the first chloroform extraction and addition of DCM, the whole lot was filtered to remove the inorganic salts. The combined organic phases where stripped of solvents and left 7,6 grammes of para-fluoro-norephedrine(42,5 mmole) freebase as a pale yellow liquid. Reaction with cyanate: The para-fluoro-norephedrine was poured into 70 mL’s of water and titrated with hydrochloric acid, until weakly acidic, where after the while lot dissolved. 3,5 grams (44 mmoles) of KOCN was added to this in one portion. The mixtures was refluxed in an oil bath for 2½ hour. After this time a clear oil was present at the top of the refluxing water. After completion of the reaction, the mixture was put in the freezer in order to isolate the carbamoyl intermediate. A slightly reddish oil precipitated on the bottom of the flask, but no crystals formed. It was decided, simply to do the reaction as a one pot synth. Formation of the oxazoline ring: The reaction mixture was mixed with a 3 times molar excess of hydrochloric acid and refluxed for 2½ hour. After this time, the flask was removed from the oil-bath and cooled. No oil was present anymore, so a reaction has definately occurred. At 40 degrees celcius, sodium carbonate as a 20% solution was added to part of the solution. The mixture turned opaque and white upon basification, but no real formation of crystals could be noted right away. This was late in the evening, so the mixture was allowed to stand a low temperatures and cool of (and hopefully provide some neat crystals.). The mixture smelled somewhat of ammonia after basification. Hopefully this is not due to breakdown of aminorex to the norephedrine and HOCN. 3,4-Dimethylaminorex is supposed to do this in contact with NaOH. Anyone have some ideas if this could be the case here? The workup will be performed within a few days, and hopefully it will be positive news! It's probably a good idea to cool of the solution before basifying, to get the unreacted carbamoyl compound, originating from the wrong isomer, out of the solution first. After this the extraction of the compound it some 'clean'. Keep your limbs crossed for a successfull extraction and bioassay I just love the smell of bromine in the morning!
		Manichi (Stranger) 10-14-03 23:05 No 464638				Good job!
						Good luck!
		Megatherium (Hive Bee) 10-15-03 02:55 No 464673				Great.
						The mixture smelled somewhat of ammonia after basification. Hopefully this is not due to breakdown of aminorex to the norephedrine and HOCN. 3,4-Dimethylaminorex is supposed to do this in contact with NaOH. Anyone have some ideas if this could be the case here? Do not worry.  This is good news.  Upon cyclization NH3 is liberated, which means the product is formed . My sincere congratulations, this is some really excellent work .  I believe you just made my day .
		Bandil (you can always take some more) 10-15-03 08:18 No 464738				Liberation of ammonia
						Don't see where that ammonia should have come from? Water is liberated upon cyclization, but no ammonia according to my reaction schemes... Anyone have a good idea on how to check for the difference between the fluoromethylaminorex, and fluoro-norpephedrine(other than HPLC-MS and other expensive gadgets like that)? I just love the smell of bromine in the morning!
		Bandil (you can always take some more) 10-15-03 10:36 No 464767				There should be about 30% of the (R,R),(S,S)...
						There should be about 30% of the (R,R),(S,S) isomer which should form an amide when subjected to the synthesis. Couldn't the ammonia smell result in a hydrolysis of this compound caused by the basic environment? Regards Bandil I just love the smell of bromine in the morning!
		Megatherium (Hive Bee) 10-15-03 12:04 No 464780				You 're right, sorry about the screwup.
						You 're right, sorry about the screwup.  Well, it was early in the morning (this bee was partying all night & got over-excited when reading your post). Upon second thought, I 'm pretty sure that the the ammonia smell is due to the hydrolysis of the residual isocyanic acid (--> NH3 + CO2). After all, the intermediate wasn't isolated.
		Bandil (you can always take some more) 10-15-03 12:21 No 464785				Megatherium> No problem ;-) ; after all...
						Megatherium> No problem ; after all life is more fun if you punish your body from time to time. But i really can't understand where the isocyanic acid should have come from. All of the excess cyanate was destroyed upon addition of hydrochloric acid. Also the product did not smell like ammonia before being basified. Could it result from the amide some how? Regards Bandil I just love the smell of bromine in the morning!
		Bandil (you can always take some more) 10-15-03 12:33 No 464789				Hydrolysis of oxazolines
						According to this (https://www.rhodium.ws/pdf/poos.aminorex-1.pdf) document, many of the oxazolines, will hydrolyse in the presence of mineral acids like hydrochloric acids or even plain water. How is this consistent with the nice yields obtained by relfluxing the carbamoyl compounds in a large excess of hydrochloric acid? The oxazoline ring should be torn to pieces almost immediately after being formed? Regards Bandil I just love the smell of bromine in the morning!
		Megatherium (Hive Bee) 10-15-03 13:46 No 464794				But i really can't understand where the ...
						But i really can't understand where the isocyanic acid should have come from. All of the excess cyanate was destroyed upon addition of hydrochloric acid. Also the product did not smell like ammonia before being basified. 42.5 mmol p-fluoro-norephedrine was reacted with 44 mmol in situ generated isocyanic acid.  Assuming that the yield of the N-carbamyl compound is 57.7 % (like in the J Chem Soc (1952) p 850 article), 1.5 + (42.3% x 42.5) mmol of unreacted isocyanic acid is still present in the solution.  Upon HCl acidification, the isocyanic acid is converted to ammonium chloride & upon basification the NH3 is liberated.  Hence the smell. I still think the synthesis will be a bashing success. For the workup, mabey a cold crystallization would work fine.  If the crude solid (after evaporation) dissolves in ether, I 'd add dropwise petroleum ether until the solution becomes turbid & put it in the fridge.
		Bandil (you can always take some more) 10-15-03 13:53 No 464796				Ahhhh, yes of course 8-) I could kiss you...
						Ahhhh, yes of course I could kiss you Megatherium; you really made my day! I'll do the workup saturday and let you all know of the outcome! I just love the smell of bromine in the morning!
		SPISSHAK (Hive Addict) 10-16-03 04:23 No 464909				another explanation
						not contradicting what Megatherium said, if your starting material is racemic (erythro, and threo isomers) when the oxazolidone by-product is formed NH3 is a reaction product of that cyclization, and yes the cyanic acid decomposition will happen too. See the stereochemcal course of conversion of carbamates to amino oxazines document on Rhodium's page. Curious, what is the Fluoro analog Like???
		Megatherium (Hive Bee) 10-16-03 05:49 No 464920				Curious, what is the Fluoro analog Like???
						Curious, what is the Fluoro analog Like??? It should be rather potent  - but we 're going to know it for sure within a few days .
		Bandil (you can always take some more) 10-18-03 19:55 No 465464				Continuation of the saga...
						Continued from the first post. Post reaction workup The post reaction mixture was washed twice with 30 mL's of DCM to remove any amide present. After discarding the DCM the water phase was acidified with sodium carbonate and a little sodium hydroxide. The solution turned nice and cloudy . This was extracted with 3 times 30 mL's of DCM. The DCM was evaporated under reduced pressure and 2,6 grammes of slighly yellow oil remained. The oil was negative on marquis test. The overall yield from the fluorobenzaldehyde was 19%, the yield of the first step was 53% and the last was 35%. It's somewhat on the low side, but if this compound turns out to be mega potent it's not to bad. The synthesis is very easy and it's obtainable chemicals that are used. Bioassay will be conducted during the forthcoming week The first dosage will probably be 200 mcg's of the freebase to check for toxcity! So all in all, this has been yet another cool success Regards Bandil I just love the smell of bromine in the morning!
		Vitus_Verdegast (Hive Addict) 10-18-03 22:22 No 465483				Great!!!
						__> <__ Very promising! Looking forward for bioassay details After discarding the DCM the water phase was acidified with sodium carbonate and a little sodium hydroxide  --> typo, probably the excitement A Dream Within A Dream (http://www.poedecoder.com/Qrisse/works/dreamw.html)
		Bandil (you can always take some more) 10-19-03 01:43 No 465522				Re: After discarding the DCM the water phase...
						After discarding the DCM the water phase was acidified with sodium carbonate and a little sodium hydroxide  --> typo, probably the excitement typo, probably the LSD I just love the smell of bromine in the morning!
		Prometheuz (Hive Bee) 10-21-03 10:04 No 465920				First series of bioassays
						A solution of the aforementioned freebaseoil was made. 700 mg dissolved in 350 ml 40% alcohol. (2mg/ml) 200 µg was tried first, and no effect, positive or negative was felt. The same day, a total of 2,5 mg was ingested, in small amounts over the entire day. No definate effect was felt. The solution had a definate taste of benzaldehyde...? Today, a dose of 5 mg was ingested 2 hours earlier. Some degree of stimulation is felt, but definately not more than 12 mg of 4-MAR would give. First conclusion: Either the compound is impure, or it is not very potent. More to come.... To fathom Hell or soar angelic Just take a pinch of psychedelic
		SPISSHAK (Hive Addict) 10-23-03 22:04 No 466402				I think the halo derivatives
						have a greater affinity for 5HT which explains the weaker stimulant properties.
		SPISSHAK (Hive Addict) 11-20-03 15:52 No 471989				Bioassay???
						So Bandil remember me back when we used to pm about this and that. You never gave a full bioassay report we here at the hive would like to hear more Certiorari??? (latin: we wish to be informed!) P.S. I'd like to hear more about the qualitative aspects of this hypothetical expierience as compared to regular 4-MAR
		Bandil (you can always take some more) 11-20-03 17:18 No 472002				Bioassay
						Well that's because i havn't tried the stuff yet :) I really busy at the moment and i only just now got mentally fit to test new compounds... But i will of course report back as soon as i junk it into my groin, which hopefully will be soon! Regards Bandil I just love the smell of bromine in the morning!
		suttleila (Stranger) 11-28-03 09:23 No 473591				4-methylaminorex
						swim has been playing around with chemistry for a couple of years and has mastered methamphetamine now swim wants to move on to 4-methylaminorex is there an easy method with easy to find precursors swim wants the best of the best and is sick of playing with hi or nh3 please advise it would make my day to finally have ice!!!!!!!!!!!! It would bee great to have 4-meth!!
		Lucid_Dreamer (Hive Bee) 11-28-03 10:22 No 473604				Depends on your country, and which isomer of... (Rated as: good read)
						Depends on your country, and which isomer of 4-mar you want, you can make cyanate easily, and you can make different isomers with different precursors, If it isn't already illegal to posess PPA then you can make the trans isomer, if not, then you can use ephedrine as a precursor to get the trans too, I am still pondering the idea of substituting pseudo in the cyanate syth which might result in the N-methyl isomer, but I think the pseudo can't be cleaned enough for the reaction, I say go for it, let us know. Read all of the following first, and I mean all of it. Post 212038 (Rhodium: "4-Methylaminorex Synth w/o CNBr", Novel Discourse) Post 354295 (Bandil: "trans-4-MAR synth w/o cyanogenbromide writeup!", Methods Discourse) Post 458588 (Bandil: "One pot synthesis of 4-methylaminorex", Novel Discourse) Post 214057 (foxy2: "NaOCN and KOCN Production", Novel Discourse) Post 442105 (DRIVEN: "NaOCN from urea and sodium carbonate", Methods Discourse) Try reading all of the threads for best results, I couldn't find the thing that tells you that you can get pulminary hypertension from ice and die with high doses. But you get the idea right? --Word on the street is, You Reap What You Sow
		Bandil (you can always take some more) 11-28-03 10:43 No 473608				Lucid_Dreamer> I'd think twice about ...
						Lucid_Dreamer> I'd think twice about playing around with the 3,4-dimethylaminorex(which would be the result from using ephedrine in the reaction). Read Post 354971 (Rhodium: "PPA synthetic routes + 3,4-DMAR Note", Methods Discourse) as a cautionary note! Now let's keep this thread on-topic again for the fluoro version. I have a feeling a few bioassays will be added soon Regards Bandil Drugs = Fun; Drugs <> Money
		Vitus_Verdegast (Hive Addict) 11-28-03 11:07 No 473612				Be careful with 3,4-dimethylaminorex! (Rated as: good read)
						Pseudoephedrine will not give 3,4-dimethylaminorex, but 3,4-dimethyl-5-phenyl-oxazolid-2-one (the amide). You will need ephedrine for the aminorex analogue. Isomerization from pseudoephedrine to ephedrine and back is possible using conc. HCl. Post 299256 (SPISSHAK: "isomerization of amino acohols", Novel Discourse) Post 423903 (Rhodium: "Russian articles beyond my reach", Russian HyperLab) (<- if someone has access to the journal) Beware of 3,4-dimethylaminorex, it is less active and more toxic than 4-MAR. Post 462392 (Rhodium: "N-Methyl-4-Methylaminorex/3,4-dimethylaminorex", General Discourse) Post 460413 (akdov: "similar study, different article.", General Discourse) Post 464400 (Rhodium: "Apples & Oranges", Methods Discourse) Post 450130 (Vibrating_Lights: "Future amphetamines and a little Purple Jewl", Serious Chemistry) Post 212184 (Rhodium: "Re: 4-Methylaminorex Synth w/o CNBr", Novel Discourse) This is the 4-MAR pulmonary hypertension post by Megatherium: Post 456788 (Megatherium: "A word of caution ...  & another KOCN patent", Methods Discourse) also read: Post 346726 (Dr_Heckyll: "4-Methylaminorex Dangers", General Discourse) Flight of the Bumble Bee (http://www.geocities.com/eric_vornoff/BumbleBee.mp3)
		suttleila (Stranger) 11-28-03 11:46 No 473617				4-mar
						lucid which one of those would be the easiest and would less likely kill you lol because most of them release ammonia and everything else i am looking for a method that takes all the danger out and would end up with a decent but not perfect yield keep in mind the only thing i can produce is meth either the e/rp/i2 or ammonia/li method i am trying to learn something better but its a fucking bitch because all the chemist i know or people that showed me how are in prison now!!!!
		Lucid_Dreamer (Hive Bee) 11-28-03 11:58 No 473622				You want the trans or the cis- isomer, but you
						You want the trans or the cis- isomer, but you would have to find a good source of PPA, judging by your southern euphanism, you might just live in a border town, and if you do your a lucky mofo, don't try it with the ephedrine, even if you have a source, and with pseudo all you will get is the amide, although I really like that link to switching to and from ephedrine-pseudo, thanks Vitus. To put your ammonia worries to rest, it just produces nh3 and co2 because that's what urea is made from, and the cyanate also uses carbons and urea, nh3 isn't as bad as some stuff, and it won't be produced rapidly and isn't flammible, it is way better than before ppa was regulated when you had to use cyanogen bromide, now that was danger. --Word on the street is, You Reap What You Sow
		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 11-28-03 14:50 No 473637				pseudoephedrine isomerization
						Vitus: The pseudoephedrine isomerization article has been retrieved: Post 425116 (Flogiston: "Изомеризация псевдоэфедрина в эфедрин.", Russian HyperLab) Here is a rough machine tanslation (courtesy of Promt Online (http://translation2.paralink.com)) which creates a document readable to me at least, but the experimental part contained too many technical words for the translation to be useful. We'll have to ask one of our Russian friends to edit this translation for clarity, and to translate the experimental part in its entirety. IZOMERIZATSIJA PSEVDOEFEDRINA IN EFEDRIN M.I.Gorjaev, E.I.Satdarova  For last decade efedrin has found wide application in To medical practice, in particular at treatment of a bronchial asthma and as the agent stimulating blood circulation [1]; diastereoizomer it alkaloida ? psevdoefedrin ? on action it is similar with efedrinom, but is much weaker and consequently in medicine it is not applied. Efedrin and psevdoefedrin usually accompany each other in plants. These alkaloidy are widely enough distributed; they meet in efedre and in other kinds of plants [2,3,4,5,6]. From them only the few have industrial value. Now in a plenty two kinds are prepared: Åphedra equisetina and Åðhådra intermedia which contain up to 3 % alkaloidov (efedrina and psevdoefedrina). Other kinds contain less alkaloidov and besides are insufficiently investigated in chemical botanical attitudes.     In prepared efedre on a share psevdoefedrina 80 % and about 20 % on efedrin are necessary on the average.     Now it is established, that psevdoefedrin and connections of its lines have treo-ksnfiguratsiju, and efedrin ? an eritro-configuration [7,8]. Ability to mutual transformation of these alkaloidov has been established for a long time. In 1906. Schmidt [9] at attempt to prepare ratsemat efedrina kipjacheniem from 25-percents a hydrochloric acid has received psevdoefedrin. From here there was an idea on an opportunity of transformation efedrina in psevdoefedrin and back. Mutual izomerizatsija these alkaloidov long time it was studied by Schmidt and Emde [10,11,12,13].     It is necessary to note work Kallisa and Schmidt [14] whom as they assert, it was possible to transform completely psevdoefedrin in efedrin, heating up a hydrochloride psevdoefedrina in the sealed - in tubes with baritovoj water at addition of powder Va (IT) 2; within 8 hours sweat pressure at temperature 170-180.     Now it is necessary to consider established, that transformations of these alkaloidov are connected to inversion of It-group at the carbon atom located about fenilnsgo of a radical as at restoration both alkaloida pass in same dszoksiefedrin [15,16]. Izomerizatsija, connected to inversion of It-group, can be osushchestvleva various ways. So, at processing N-ацетилэфедрина by a hydrochloric acid boiling by 5-percents the mix of hydrochlorides efedrina and psevdoefedrina in a provisional parity 38:62 [18] turns out. Mitchel [19] has received the same results, but only alkaloidy have been submitted in a return parity (2 parts efedrina and 1 part psevdoefedrina).     This izomerizatsija, touching alpha-carbon atom at efedrina, does not meet at N-ацетилпсевдоэфедрина which at acid and shelochaom hydrolysis gives only psevdoefedrin. It is typical, that similar izomerizatsija it was observed Kanao [20] at heating with concentrated hydrochloric acid N-бензоил-нор-dl-эфедрина. As a result of reaction it turned out only О-бензоил-нор-dl-псевдоэфедрин; Reaction was accompanied by migration benzoilnoj groups from N to About. At hydrolysis individual chlorine both bromproizvodnyh efedrina and psevdoefedrina, turning out at replacement with haloid gidroksila, also is formed a mix efedrina and psevdoefedrina.     From works Emde [21, 22] it is visible, that chloride and bromide psevdoefedrina are steadier at hydrolysis, than the same derivatives efedrina.     However these data demand additional check whereas the parity alkaloidov was defined only on the basis of specific rotation of a mix after hydrolysis chlorine and bromproizvodnyh.     In some cases izomerizatsija psevdoefedrina and efedrina it is accompanied by formation of by-products which are investigated in an insufficient degree. So, the cold sulfuric acid forms with both alkaloidami the same ether psevdoefedrina [12, 14, 17] which at hydrolysis in boiling water or with a hydrochloric acid gives a mix efedrina and psevdoefedrina [13]. At more long action of the concentrated sulfuric acid (5 days, at 15 °) turn out some by-products among which, in particular, has been found metilamin and Others. At a usual, factory method izomerizatsii psevdoefedrina in 50-percents the sulfuric acid manages 10?15 % of pitch and other products of irreversible change which studying can give a material for finding-out of the mechanism izomerizatsii psevdoefedrina in efedrin. It is possible, that izomerizatsija to mineral acids occurs with obrazevaniem intermediate products, such, as hlorefedringidrohlorid at action of a hydrochloric acid, bromefedringidrobromid with bromistovodorodnoj an acid and a corresponding ether at action of a sulfuric acid. Hlorefedringidrohlorid easily enough it turns out At action of a smoking hydrochloric acid on efedringidrohlorid [22].       Similar should be, apparently, and action of alkalis on efedrin and psevdoefedrin, however message Kallisa and Schmidt [14] about full transformation psevdoefedrina in efedrin under action of hydrate okisi barium has not proved to be true our experiences and experiences of others Authors [23].     From the patent literature it is known, that efedrin and psevdoefedrin it is easy ratsemizirujutsja at heating with alkaline alkogoljatami. From ratsematov it is possible to receive again initial opticheski active components [24, 25, 26].     Complex connections of metals and their salts with alkaloidami efedry, probably, influence also on a course of reaction izomerizatsii. Complex connections of these alkaloidov with ÑuSÎ4 (is more true, with Ñu (IT) 2в presence of alkali) are received and described Grade Tung-fengom [27]; To regret, the author ve results their structure.     Formation of complex connection, probably, is connected to obligatory presence of two functional groups at these alkaloidov ? it and-NÍÑÍ3; so, according to Hailey [28], dezoksiefedrin this complex does not give.     The question about izomerizatsii psevdoefedrina in efedrin has got from us great value after works of Item. С. Màññàãåòîâà [29, 30], opened in 30th years in Kazakhstan and Central Asia big promyshlen nye thrickets efedry.     The method izomerizatsii, used on Chimkent himfarmzavode, developed VNIHFI, leads to to loss up to 50 % psevdoefedrina. With the purpose of improvement of an output efedrina at izomerizatsii psevdoefedrina the given work also has been undertaken. Experimental part Work on izomerizatsii psevdoefedrina in efedrin was carried out in three directions. 1. Izomerizatsija psezdoefedrina in efedrin in exact conformity with a factory method with a potion of definition of possible blanks in factory technology and receptions of products of irreversible change, Which should give a material for construction of a hypothesis about the mechanism izomerizatsii. 2. Izomerizatsija from 50-percents a sulfuric acid, as well as in the previous case, but at entering various additives as additional catalysts. As additives various substances which could give complex connections on metilaminnoj and gidroksilnoj to groups have been tested, creating stericheskie obstacles for connection gidroksila from party SNz-MN-gruppy. 3. Studying influence of other agents promoting izomerizatsii psevdoefedrina in efedrin.
		Prometheuz (Hive Bee) 12-12-03 22:30 No 476482				Latest advances...
						The p-F-4-MAR was bioassayed at 20 mg recently, and no definate effect was noticed. SOME stimulation was almost definately there, but not more than 10 mg of 4-MAR would do. Good mood and energy, but nothing euphoric and "drug-like" could be pinpointed. SWIM doesn't feel like taking larger amounts of chemicals of unknown purity, so a GC/MS will be done sometime next week. I'll make sure to post the results. Was the synth a fuck-up, or is the compound rather inactive? Hope to know soon. To fathom Hell or soar angelic Just take a pinch of psychedelic
		Bandil (The Archetypical "Good Guy") 01-11-04 15:54 No 481815				Activity confirmation
						Well last night this compound was found to be VERY active! The bioassay was done by Prometheus, and i suspect he will post a report tomorrow or so, but i can give some pointers of the effects he described untill then: The dose was 40 mg's of the freebase, and was ingested together with a bottle of red wine. After about one hour, there where observed a fuzzy MDMA-like come on which continued to climb for another two hours. Subjectively he compared the climb comparable to perhaps 80 mg's of MDMA. At the three hour mark 80% of all motor control was lost within few minutes. Very odd ideed. It was not a problem to make normal conversation with him. No shaking / shivering where observer. From the 3.5 hour mark it seemed to reach a plateau. The effects where described as "valium-MDMA". Quite emphatogenic but perhaps not the ideal dance drug. Ill look forward to his report within the next few days; i suspect it will be posted in this thread! I'll try it out at the 40 mg's level on thursday and post my own experiences! But this stuff definately targets the seretonin system more than regular 4-mar. Perhaps a combination of the fluoro version and the regular one could provide a great party drug :) Regards Bandil Drugs = Fun; Drugs <> Money
		Prometheuz (Hive Bee) 01-12-04 10:41 No 481988				para-Fluoro-4-MAR: Confirmed activity! (Rated as: good read)
						Well, after a long period of being too busy to do any bioassaying, the p-F-4-MAR was subject to trial again. I have been building up from 0,5 mg, doubling the dose each time when nothing distinct effect was felt. At 20 mg there was a subtle SOMETHING, but very weak indeed, and might be just placebo. Saturday I ingested 40 mg dissolved in vodka. At T=2:00 I started to feel some kind of definate effect, but subtle, and hard to define. A warm, fuzzy feeling, not unlike MDMA, with pleasant chills and all, but no energetic feeling at all, and no increased psychomotor-activity. 20 mg 4-MAR was ingested about this point to add some energy for partying. Under the come-up 1 bottle of red wine, a couple of beers and a bit of gin was ingested. In the taxi on the way to the party (T~3:00) definate serotonine-related effects were felt. Later, physical coordination was quite impaired, even though there was absolutely no shaking of the hands or clenching of the jaws. Mood was good, but there was no push at all for dancing or too much social interaction. At T~5:30 I took a cab home, and aborted the experiment with a bit of zopiclone to get some sleep - even though it might not have been neccesary. No hangover or after-effects were noticed the day after. Konklusion: The compound has no real stimulant effect, but seems to work in a quite unique way on the serotonine-system. The next experiment will NOT be with the double dose.. ...And I'll make sure to keep it in a more controlled setting, and for once be a good scientist. P.S.: The GC/MS-test was rather inconclusive due to poor sample preparation; had to do it rather quick and dirty. A nice peak did seem to confirm that the desired product was produced, though. Can't say anything about purity yet, but another, more careful run will be done sometime within too long, I hope. To fathom Hell or soar angelic Just take a pinch of psychedelic
		Bandil (The Archetypical "Good Guy") 01-17-04 17:10 No 483041				Final evaluation (Rated as: good read)
						Subjective evaluation the title compound. Background: No other drugs was ingested prior to taking the fluoro-methylaminorex. During dinner two glasses of red wine was ingested (i usually drink quite a bit, so it did not interfer). The mindset was very good in all the subjects. No serious(serious as in causing resistance, such as 4-mar and MDMA) drugs had been taken in the week before. My body weigth is approximately 92 kg´s, mostly distributed as muscular tissue. Dosage: I ingested 44 mg´s of the freebased compound dissolved in ethylalcohol and Prometheus took 48. His girlfriend took 30 mg´s. The experience chronologically described: At 19:30 in the evening the compound was ingested. An hour later it was obvious that something was in the system. The bloodpressure felt quite raised and continued to climb during the next hour. Nothing to alarming, but it was enough to be felt. At the T+2 hrs mark a fuzzy feeling was noted in all the subjects. It felt like the come up on MDMA, but more smooth. A slightly annoying headache was present in the two male subjects at this point. The blood pressure felt quite annoying. This was accompanied by a tight feeling in the chest. The mood was a little giggly, but not nice enough to make up for the body load. At three hours the fuzzy feeling had faded, but the body load(headache, chest pressure and high blood pressure) remained. The pulse was not affected by the drug. I headed home at T+5:00 hours. I went by bike with really nice music on my walkman. To test the "going out" potential i walked through the main street of the capital city and gazed at the night life. Nothing interesting. I was just plainly annoyed by the body load. At T+6:00 hours the body load had faded somewhat, but sleep was still not possible. At T+7:00 i was at baseline again and went to sleep at T+7:30 hrs. The day after i was not hung over or anything. No afterglow was noted. Conclusion: This is the aminorex version of PMA / PMMA. Hardly any nice effects are present, but there sure is body load. I would be hesitant with increasing the dosage further, as the body-effects where quite high. Unfortunately this compound is not worth a damn thing. It might do as some killer-street-ecstasy substitute, but thats not for me! To look on the brigth side(as you always should try to do), a compound has been tested and although it is not usefull as recreational drug it has limited the large spectrum of aminorex analogues possible with one. So dont waste your money and time on this compound. Have a nice weekend! Regards Bandil Drugs = Fun; Drugs <> Money
		Prometheuz (Hive Bee) 01-20-04 13:51 No 483532				Comments on Bandil's report on the bioassay
						The above description of the bioassay fits my experience well. The 40 mg amount I had ingested a week ago, with apparently better result, is probably because of potentiation of the other compounds taken; alcohol, THC and 4-MAR. It might seem that p-F-4-MAR works like some kind of "catalyst" for other drugs. In itself it isn't interesting at all IMO. No stimulant effect was experienced; no significant empatogenic effect, and definately no psychedelic effects what so ever. Due to the bodyload/effect ratio of this compound, probably no further bioassays will be done. Mainly due to the apparent rise in bloodpressure, there will be no tests at higher doses. Well, this one apparently was a dud. I hope to get a nice analysis done in a month's time, to confirm the purity and identity of the drug produced; it would be a pity if the pure stuff had a useable profile, and everyone just dropped the subject because we fucked up the synth... Anyway, interesting to try out a completely new substance from scratch, without knowing what effects and dosages to expect. IMO we did it in a quite rational and careful way, but always be extremely careful with untested compounds. To fathom Hell or soar angelic Just take a pinch of psychedelic
		Antoncho (Official Hive Translator) 01-20-04 15:45 No 483543				Well done!
						Excellent work, guys! Thank you. Sincerely, Antoncho
		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 02-10-04 17:31 No 487709				3,4-Dimethylaminorex Preparation & Analysis (Rated as: good read)
						Re: Post 473612 (Vitus_Verdegast: "Be careful with 3,4-dimethylaminorex!", Methods Discourse) Liquid Chromatographic and Spectral Analysis of the Stereoisomers of Dimethylaminorex F. Taylor Noggle, Jr, C. Randall Clark And Jack Deruiter Journal of AOAC International 75(3), 423-427 (1992) (https://www.rhodium.ws/pdf/forensic/dimetylaminorex.pdf) Abstract The individual enantiomers of cis- and trans-3,4-dimethylaminorex were prepared by treating ephedrines or pseudoephedrines with cyanogen bromide. These compounds represent potential designer drug modifications of aminorex and 4-methylaminorex, which have appeared recently in the clandestine drug market. The UV spectra for these compounds are typical of phenethylamine-type compounds, and FTIR spectra allow for differentiation of cis- and trans-isomers. The mass spectra for the dimethylaminorex stereoisomers show characteristic fragments at m/z 57, 118, and 190. The cis- and trans-Isomers were separated in a reversed-phase liquid chromatographic system on a C18 stationary phase, with the cis-isomer displaying the higher capacity factor. The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders

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Date: 11-26-24, Release: 1.6 (10-04-15), Links: static, unique