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All 7 posts Subject: Mono and trimethylamine by electrolysis Please login to post Down

Organikum
(Wonderful Personality)
02-15-04 00:41
No 488687
      Mono and trimethylamine by electrolysis

Patent DE148054
Farbwerke Hoechst 1903

translation as good as possible by ORGANIKUM

........
Method for the production of amines by electrolysis
...........
Examples:
Reduction of HMTA to methylamine and trimethylamine

(CH2)6N4 + 12H = 3CH3NH2 +(CH3)3N

1.
Anode and cathode chamber which are divided by an diaphragm are filled with a solution of sodiumsulfate. 140,0 gram of hexamine are dissolved and electrolysed with lead electrodes at a current density of 3Amp/cmxcm, wherby the voltage is about 3.5V. The base which forms at the cathode is permanently neutralized by dropping dil. H2SO4 into the chamber. The cell is cooled so the temperatur is hold at about 20°C. After the needed amount of electricity has passed through the operation is cancelled and the bases of mono and tro-methylamine are distilled out of the solution after basifying with NaOH.
The separation of the tri and mono-methylamine is done in the well known manner.

2.
Instead of sodiumsulfate ammoniumsulfate is used. The cathodechamber has an stirrer and a tube for venting the gases away and is sealed airtight.
Same yields.

3.
Ammoniumsulfate is used and formaldehyde is dropped in in a way that there is always an excess of it at the side of the cathode.
yields same as in example 1.
..........

I remember there was some need for trimethylamine some time ago.......
wink

Shareholder of Paranoid Fucks inc.

sYnThOmAtIc
(Hive Addict)
02-15-04 01:06
No 488696
      Ratio

Does it give metion to the ratios of the methylamines or how to influence the ratio?

Organikum
(Wonderful Personality)
02-15-04 02:20
No 488718
      ?

(CH2)6N4 + 12H = 3CH3NH2 +(CH3)3N

Looking at this equatation I might guess it is 3 to 1 - monomethylamine to trimethylamine and the ratio seems to be fixed in this kind of reaction.

What would you prefer?
More mono or more trimethylamine? smile

Shareholder of Paranoid Fucks inc.

sYnThOmAtIc
(Hive Addict)
02-15-04 06:01
No 488777
      Dumb question!

I overlooked the equation there. Woops...

As of late trimethyl, but I forgot what for crazy

sYnThOmAtIc
(Hive Addict)
02-15-04 19:41
No 488896
      How much electricity?

Does it give mention to how many faradays per mole of hexamine to pass? What about overall yield?

Organikum
(Wonderful Personality)
02-15-04 21:40
No 488910
      No more data given sorry

frown

Shareholder of Paranoid Fucks inc.

roger2003
(Hive Bee)
02-16-04 09:52
No 489011
      How much electricity?

They work with 3,5 V and 3A/qdm. You need 12 Faradays (12 H)/mol

roger2003

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	All 7 posts		Subject: Mono and trimethylamine by electrolysis		Please login to post		Down


		Organikum (Wonderful Personality) 02-15-04 00:41 No 488687				Mono and trimethylamine by electrolysis
						Patent DE148054 Farbwerke Hoechst 1903 translation as good as possible by ORGANIKUM ........ Method for the production of amines by electrolysis ........... Examples: Reduction of HMTA to methylamine and trimethylamine (CH2)6N4 + 12H = 3CH3NH2 +(CH3)3N 1. Anode and cathode chamber which are divided by an diaphragm are filled with a solution of sodiumsulfate. 140,0 gram of hexamine are dissolved and electrolysed with lead electrodes at a current density of 3Amp/cmxcm, wherby the voltage is about 3.5V. The base which forms at the cathode is permanently neutralized by dropping dil. H2SO4 into the chamber. The cell is cooled so the temperatur is hold at about 20°C. After the needed amount of electricity has passed through the operation is cancelled and the bases of mono and tro-methylamine are distilled out of the solution after basifying with NaOH. The separation of the tri and mono-methylamine is done in the well known manner. 2. Instead of sodiumsulfate ammoniumsulfate is used. The cathodechamber has an stirrer and a tube for venting the gases away and is sealed airtight. Same yields. 3. Ammoniumsulfate is used and formaldehyde is dropped in in a way that there is always an excess of it at the side of the cathode. yields same as in example 1. .......... I remember there was some need for trimethylamine some time ago....... Shareholder of Paranoid Fucks inc.



		sYnThOmAtIc (Hive Addict) 02-15-04 01:06 No 488696				Ratio
						Does it give metion to the ratios of the methylamines or how to influence the ratio?



		Organikum (Wonderful Personality) 02-15-04 02:20 No 488718				?
						(CH2)6N4 + 12H = 3CH3NH2 +(CH3)3N Looking at this equatation I might guess it is 3 to 1 - monomethylamine to trimethylamine and the ratio seems to be fixed in this kind of reaction. What would you prefer? More mono or more trimethylamine? Shareholder of Paranoid Fucks inc.



		sYnThOmAtIc (Hive Addict) 02-15-04 06:01 No 488777				Dumb question!
						I overlooked the equation there. Woops... As of late trimethyl, but I forgot what for



		sYnThOmAtIc (Hive Addict) 02-15-04 19:41 No 488896				How much electricity?
						Does it give mention to how many faradays per mole of hexamine to pass? What about overall yield?



		Organikum (Wonderful Personality) 02-15-04 21:40 No 488910				No more data given sorry
						Shareholder of Paranoid Fucks inc.



		roger2003 (Hive Bee) 02-16-04 09:52 No 489011				How much electricity?
						They work with 3,5 V and 3A/qdm. You need 12 Faradays (12 H)/mol roger2003

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