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All 6 posts Subject: Possible new precursor for synthesizing cocaine Please login to post Down

TheMaster
(Stranger)
03-10-04 18:30
No 494233
      Possible new precursor for synthesizing cocaine

There is an interesting property about these new "non-stimulant" medications being sold for ADHD these days. And that property (which does apply to one of them for absolute certainty and the other being still in the preliminary stages) pertains to being a precursor of two of the most stimulating and euphoric stimulant drugs well known and well loved.

The first one I am referring to is the medication-Cylert a.k.a. Pemoline. Which is the perfect precursor for 4-methylaminorex. And the second one I am referring to is the new medication:"Strattera(Atomoxetine Hydrochloride)". It's empirical formula is C₁₇H₂₁NO°HCl with a molecular weight of 291.82. Now if you were to add three atoms of Oxygen to this you get cocaine hydrochloride.

Cocaine hydrochloride's empirical formula is C₁₇H₂₁NO₄°HCl with a molecular weight of 303.4.

The left one is Atomoxetine°HCl.
Now I did a search here for adding Oxygen atoms to a substances Empirical Formula and so far am chasing the wild goose so-to-speak. Same goes for other resources available on the Internet. So I have only waited until now to of post this Topic here at Serious Chemistry in hopes that one of you guys with a greater competency of matters of this nature could possibly help shed some light on this for me.

I do know that new steroid THG that has the Sportsworld up in arms about was given an addition of five Oxygen atoms to its Empirical Formula so as to make it undetectable to the drug tests' library of banned and known substances. So this kind of goes along the lines of that in that this Atomoxetine needs additional atoms of Oxygen as well only instead of five it needs three.

And I have yet to of found the exact means the chemist who created THG used to give those additions so I could get me some kind of relative idea on the methodology.

If this doesn't belong here pardon my placement of this here.

After All Is Said And Done........More Is Said Than Done.

GC_MS
(Hive Addict)
03-10-04 19:06
No 494239
User Picture       euhm...

These two compounds are completely different. There is no way (at least, within 300 steps or so) to make cocaine out of that.

Advanced clitoris massage specialist. 32 years of experience. PM me for a "sample".

ApprenticeCook
(Hive Bee)
03-11-04 04:33
No 494304
      Huh?

How do you propose the synthesis? gc-ms is right you could do it in 300 steps but practically how?

Sounds a bit like swims mate who when seeing mdma as C₁₁H₁₅NO₂ asked "couldn’t you just grab some carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen and do something with it? Sounds easy to me" as you can see swims mate has absolutely no idea....

Blind_Angel
(Hive Bee)
03-11-04 04:39
No 494306
User Picture       Empirical formula is nothing, it's mostly used

Empirical formula is nothing, it's mostly used to know what will be the combustion product of the molecule or to abreviate in chembook, look Acetone and Ethanol the two have C2H6O as an empirical formula but they have no link between them in their chemical property (except maybe being a solvent and common household chemical).
The most important part is actually how atoms are bound between them, look at the two structure that you posted and you'll see that there are almost no link between them

/}/_//\//) /-|/\//¬/=/_

TheMaster
(Stranger)
03-11-04 14:19
No 494395
      Thank you guys

Hey you never know until you try right?! When it comes to the scientific techno-jargon behind chemistry I am as illiterate as they come!! So I submitted this inquirary to resolve this nagging question which you guys did and so I thank you and appreciate the civility displayed in giving me a lesson learned!!

Peace.

After All Is Said And Done........More Is Said Than Done.

ApprenticeCook
(Hive Bee)
03-11-04 22:54
No 494485
      Empirical vs structural formulae

Yeah that’s ok, if you find things with the same empirical formulae they may have the same numbers of different types of atoms in them but the number of ways they can be arranged (isomers of that formula) is huge, especially for something like cocaine.

Look for structural formulaes they show not only what is it the molecule but also which atoms are bound to which other ones, more than likely anything even remotely close to cocaine will be either banned or watched something chronic.

Just a chemistry lesson for you, have fun!
-ApprenticeCook

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	All 6 posts		Subject: Possible new precursor for synthesizing cocaine		Please login to post		Down


		TheMaster (Stranger) 03-10-04 18:30 No 494233				Possible new precursor for synthesizing cocaine
						There is an interesting property about these new "non-stimulant" medications being sold for ADHD these days. And that property (which does apply to one of them for absolute certainty and the other being still in the preliminary stages) pertains to being a precursor of two of the most stimulating and euphoric stimulant drugs well known and well loved. The first one I am referring to is the medication-Cylert a.k.a. Pemoline. Which is the perfect precursor for 4-methylaminorex. And the second one I am referring to is the new medication:"Strattera(Atomoxetine Hydrochloride)". It's empirical formula is C₁₇H₂₁NO°HCl with a molecular weight of 291.82. Now if you were to add three atoms of Oxygen to this you get cocaine hydrochloride. Cocaine hydrochloride's empirical formula is C₁₇H₂₁NO₄°HCl with a molecular weight of 303.4. The left one is Atomoxetine°HCl. Now I did a search here for adding Oxygen atoms to a substances Empirical Formula and so far am chasing the wild goose so-to-speak. Same goes for other resources available on the Internet. So I have only waited until now to of post this Topic here at Serious Chemistry in hopes that one of you guys with a greater competency of matters of this nature could possibly help shed some light on this for me. I do know that new steroid THG that has the Sportsworld up in arms about was given an addition of five Oxygen atoms to its Empirical Formula so as to make it undetectable to the drug tests' library of banned and known substances. So this kind of goes along the lines of that in that this Atomoxetine needs additional atoms of Oxygen as well only instead of five it needs three. And I have yet to of found the exact means the chemist who created THG used to give those additions so I could get me some kind of relative idea on the methodology. If this doesn't belong here pardon my placement of this here. After All Is Said And Done........More Is Said Than Done.



		GC_MS (Hive Addict) 03-10-04 19:06 No 494239				euhm...
						These two compounds are completely different. There is no way (at least, within 300 steps or so) to make cocaine out of that. Advanced clitoris massage specialist. 32 years of experience. PM me for a "sample".



		ApprenticeCook (Hive Bee) 03-11-04 04:33 No 494304				Huh?
						How do you propose the synthesis? gc-ms is right you could do it in 300 steps but practically how? Sounds a bit like swims mate who when seeing mdma as C₁₁H₁₅NO₂ asked "couldn’t you just grab some carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen and do something with it? Sounds easy to me" as you can see swims mate has absolutely no idea....



		Blind_Angel (Hive Bee) 03-11-04 04:39 No 494306				Empirical formula is nothing, it's mostly used
						Empirical formula is nothing, it's mostly used to know what will be the combustion product of the molecule or to abreviate in chembook, look Acetone and Ethanol the two have C2H6O as an empirical formula but they have no link between them in their chemical property (except maybe being a solvent and common household chemical). The most important part is actually how atoms are bound between them, look at the two structure that you posted and you'll see that there are almost no link between them /}/_//\//) /-\|/\//¬/=/_



		TheMaster (Stranger) 03-11-04 14:19 No 494395				Thank you guys
						Hey you never know until you try right?! When it comes to the scientific techno-jargon behind chemistry I am as illiterate as they come!! So I submitted this inquirary to resolve this nagging question which you guys did and so I thank you and appreciate the civility displayed in giving me a lesson learned!! Peace. After All Is Said And Done........More Is Said Than Done.



		ApprenticeCook (Hive Bee) 03-11-04 22:54 No 494485				Empirical vs structural formulae
						Yeah that’s ok, if you find things with the same empirical formulae they may have the same numbers of different types of atoms in them but the number of ways they can be arranged (isomers of that formula) is huge, especially for something like cocaine. Look for structural formulaes they show not only what is it the molecule but also which atoms are bound to which other ones, more than likely anything even remotely close to cocaine will be either banned or watched something chronic. Just a chemistry lesson for you, have fun! -ApprenticeCook

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