Hive Tryptamine Chemistry

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	Tryptamine Chemistry

All 8 posts Subject: ergotinine --> lysergic acid Please login to post Down

tone3721
(Stranger)
07-13-04 00:16
No 519008
      ergotinine --> lysergic acid

Recently i was refferred to a "alternative" method to lysergic acid, not using ergotamine. At this point i am very unfamiliar with this method. I understand how the write up works theoretically, but is ergotinine scheduled? Is it really easier to obtain than ergotamine? Also what kind of yields are we talking, is the method really efficient and worth while? What are the pros and cons to this method? It seems to me the biggest problem with lsd production these days is the availability of ergotamine, for those with that problem, would this be a good alternative?

here comes sunshine

armageddon
(Hive Bee)
07-13-04 01:14
No 519021
      not really

I think the biggest problem with LSD synthesis nowadays isn't precursor aquisition but rather some fully equipped high-tech lab (with equipment costs being in the range of several ten thousand bucks minimum) and a rather skilled (read professional) chemist being necessary to succeed - and even then, the yields are everything else but stellar...

But the different ergot medications structurally all usually contain the LSA molecule, with different additional peptide ligands (Drone once called them "peptide garbage") which have to be split off to obtain a useable LSD precursor.

Greetz A

"..ein Trank von unterschiedlicher Farbe, in ihm ist Heilung für die Menschen."

ChemMang
(Newbee)
07-13-04 01:41
No 519026
      Knock off the 'peptide garbage' of hydergine?

I wonder if it would be possible to cleave off the 'peptide garbage' so to speak that is on Hydergine aka Ergoloid Mesylates invented by our goodman Dr. Albert Hoffman. This is a VERY cheap medicine and very easy to obtain in quite large quantities. I wonder the feasibility of the above proposal...

'A Helpful Bee, is a Friend Indeed'

armageddon
(Hive Bee)
07-13-04 02:14
No 519030
      feasability

Well I must admit that I am no ergot chemistry expert - but I think ergotamine has to be hydrolyzed in the same matter to arrive at LSA. At least ergotinine has to - and I am tempted to say that all ergot alkaloids have to be freed from different peptide ligands, as most of them differ in exactly this "peptide garbage", the remaining structure is always lysergic acid. (of course not with, for example, bromocryptine - but with all "natural" erg. alkaloids)

(BTW maybe you should read Post 412547 (pHarmacist: "Synthesis of LSD from Lysergic Acid", Tryptamine Chemistry), read the docs on Rhodium's - or simply UTFSE!? "Research" is derived from "searching"... wink )

(and, just to give you an understanding of what is considered a good yield in acid synthesis: some procedures claim something like 75% yield from LSA, but they are conducted in professional research labs, with argon atmosphere, special lighting, high vacuum equipment and so on - in a clandestine lab setting, you could more consider 10% being a good yield..)

Greetz A

"..ein Trank von unterschiedlicher Farbe, in ihm ist Heilung für die Menschen."

hest
(Hive Adickt)
07-13-04 06:54
No 519063
      Hydergine

Hydergine cost 150$/g that is not cheap. You still have to sepp. all the gag from the fun stuff.

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
07-13-04 07:25
No 519073
User Picture       There is no fun stuff in Hydergine

There is no fun stuff in Hydergine/Ergoloid Mesylates - the Lysergic Acid part of the amide has had one of its double bonds irreversibly reduced.

^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}

tone3721
(Stranger)
07-14-04 02:45
No 519278
      yields

swim also heard the yields from et are about 5:1. 5g et yields 1g lsd. swim does think the most important thing when synthesising lsd is experience. Swim just finished organic, and is still blown away by ergot research. Its more of an obsession really. Paper(cash) for equipment is achievable. Ergot meds in the states are not easy to come by. Precursors are closely watched, and in quantity for most is next to impossible. Anyone with enough determination can learn the synth just by studying it, equipment could also be had just a matter of paper.
Btw swim has read about every lsd reference on this forum, and rhodium, swim is trying to elaborate on this. It seems to me that people have simplified speed and e so much that any idiot can synth it, I realize lsd requires much more skill, but I also think the more support it gets the more people will learn it. After all its not impossible, equipment is pricey, but whats 50g on equipment, @ 10g a grr? swim understands how the write up on these synths work, wouldnt it be nice if someone who knows ergotamine chemistry could do a write up, somewhat like what dr drool and brightstar have done for mdma. Obviously the skill is still needed but it would clear up alot for newbees. Thus in effect, the newbees eventually master it, instead of trying to decypher hoffman's sandoz patents right from the get go pretty much. Thats where swim started, then again there wasnt rhodium or the hive when swim became obsessed.

here comes sunshine

armageddon
(Hive Bee)
07-15-04 23:41
No 519669
      serious research

Hi! Seems you are serious about "making gold from shit" (the alchimists dream smile ) - good luck! And plan everything carefully, expect all failures to happen - try to prepare worst-case-scenarios for every possible fuckup..

(and don't request a "from scratch"-writeup from currently sold medications to LSD-25 - if anyone would know about this secret, and there surely are such bees, they surely would not ruin their efforts spent in finding/optimizing "their" method by doing a writeup intended to teach unskilled chemists how to synth it - just because "every Newbee" would immediately try synthing some, the DEA would become alerted, and woosh! (insert toilet flush sound here) - no more precursor available anymore, suddenly...)

Better "keep on hiving" (simply browse through all tryptamine/lysergic related threads, and with time you will become familiar with the topic, and eventually "discover" by yourself what you're looking for..

..and maybe for the beginning, read Patent US2003013131 "pour l'inspiration" wink , then start searching for a way to cleave the useless ligands of your "preferred" (read available) precursor - it's all there, just has to be found.

Greetz A

"..ein Trank von unterschiedlicher Farbe, in ihm ist Heilung für die Menschen."

	https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org	the-hive@erowid.org



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	All 8 posts		Subject: ergotinine --> lysergic acid		Please login to post		Down


		tone3721 (Stranger) 07-13-04 00:16 No 519008				ergotinine --> lysergic acid
						Recently i was refferred to a "alternative" method to lysergic acid, not using ergotamine. At this point i am very unfamiliar with this method. I understand how the write up works theoretically, but is ergotinine scheduled? Is it really easier to obtain than ergotamine? Also what kind of yields are we talking, is the method really efficient and worth while? What are the pros and cons to this method? It seems to me the biggest problem with lsd production these days is the availability of ergotamine, for those with that problem, would this be a good alternative? here comes sunshine



		armageddon (Hive Bee) 07-13-04 01:14 No 519021				not really
						I think the biggest problem with LSD synthesis nowadays isn't precursor aquisition but rather some fully equipped high-tech lab (with equipment costs being in the range of several ten thousand bucks minimum) and a rather skilled (read professional) chemist being necessary to succeed - and even then, the yields are everything else but stellar... But the different ergot medications structurally all usually contain the LSA molecule, with different additional peptide ligands (Drone once called them "peptide garbage") which have to be split off to obtain a useable LSD precursor. Greetz A "..ein Trank von unterschiedlicher Farbe, in ihm ist Heilung für die Menschen."



		ChemMang (Newbee) 07-13-04 01:41 No 519026				Knock off the 'peptide garbage' of hydergine?
						I wonder if it would be possible to cleave off the 'peptide garbage' so to speak that is on Hydergine aka Ergoloid Mesylates invented by our goodman Dr. Albert Hoffman. This is a VERY cheap medicine and very easy to obtain in quite large quantities. I wonder the feasibility of the above proposal... 'A Helpful Bee, is a Friend Indeed'



		armageddon (Hive Bee) 07-13-04 02:14 No 519030				feasability
						Well I must admit that I am no ergot chemistry expert - but I think ergotamine has to be hydrolyzed in the same matter to arrive at LSA. At least ergotinine has to - and I am tempted to say that all ergot alkaloids have to be freed from different peptide ligands, as most of them differ in exactly this "peptide garbage", the remaining structure is always lysergic acid. (of course not with, for example, bromocryptine - but with all "natural" erg. alkaloids) (BTW maybe you should read Post 412547 (pHarmacist: "Synthesis of LSD from Lysergic Acid", Tryptamine Chemistry), read the docs on Rhodium's - or simply UTFSE!? "Research" is derived from "searching"... ) (and, just to give you an understanding of what is considered a good yield in acid synthesis: some procedures claim something like 75% yield from LSA, but they are conducted in professional research labs, with argon atmosphere, special lighting, high vacuum equipment and so on - in a clandestine lab setting, you could more consider 10% being a good yield..) Greetz A "..ein Trank von unterschiedlicher Farbe, in ihm ist Heilung für die Menschen."



		hest (Hive Adickt) 07-13-04 06:54 No 519063				Hydergine
						Hydergine cost 150$/g that is not cheap. You still have to sepp. all the gag from the fun stuff.



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 07-13-04 07:25 No 519073				There is no fun stuff in Hydergine
						There is no fun stuff in Hydergine/Ergoloid Mesylates - the Lysergic Acid part of the amide has had one of its double bonds irreversibly reduced. ^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}



		tone3721 (Stranger) 07-14-04 02:45 No 519278				yields
						swim also heard the yields from et are about 5:1. 5g et yields 1g lsd. swim does think the most important thing when synthesising lsd is experience. Swim just finished organic, and is still blown away by ergot research. Its more of an obsession really. Paper(cash) for equipment is achievable. Ergot meds in the states are not easy to come by. Precursors are closely watched, and in quantity for most is next to impossible. Anyone with enough determination can learn the synth just by studying it, equipment could also be had just a matter of paper. Btw swim has read about every lsd reference on this forum, and rhodium, swim is trying to elaborate on this. It seems to me that people have simplified speed and e so much that any idiot can synth it, I realize lsd requires much more skill, but I also think the more support it gets the more people will learn it. After all its not impossible, equipment is pricey, but whats 50g on equipment, @ 10g a grr? swim understands how the write up on these synths work, wouldnt it be nice if someone who knows ergotamine chemistry could do a write up, somewhat like what dr drool and brightstar have done for mdma. Obviously the skill is still needed but it would clear up alot for newbees. Thus in effect, the newbees eventually master it, instead of trying to decypher hoffman's sandoz patents right from the get go pretty much. Thats where swim started, then again there wasnt rhodium or the hive when swim became obsessed. here comes sunshine



		armageddon (Hive Bee) 07-15-04 23:41 No 519669				serious research
						Hi! Seems you are serious about "making gold from shit" (the alchimists dream ) - good luck! And plan everything carefully, expect all failures to happen - try to prepare worst-case-scenarios for every possible fuckup.. (and don't request a "from scratch"-writeup from currently sold medications to LSD-25 - if anyone would know about this secret, and there surely are such bees, they surely would not ruin their efforts spent in finding/optimizing "their" method by doing a writeup intended to teach unskilled chemists how to synth it - just because "every Newbee" would immediately try synthing some, the DEA would become alerted, and woosh! (insert toilet flush sound here) - no more precursor available anymore, suddenly...) Better "keep on hiving" (simply browse through all tryptamine/lysergic related threads, and with time you will become familiar with the topic, and eventually "discover" by yourself what you're looking for.. ..and maybe for the beginning, read Patent US2003013131 "pour l'inspiration" , then start searching for a way to cleave the useless ligands of your "preferred" (read available) precursor - it's all there, just has to be found. Greetz A "..ein Trank von unterschiedlicher Farbe, in ihm ist Heilung für die Menschen."

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