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All 11 posts Subject: MDMA synthese Please login to post Down

icexool
(Stranger)
07-14-04 23:22
No 519454
      MDMA synthese

I've got a question about the synthese of MDMA via the peracetic acid katalysation.
I've been reading a lot on rhodium.
And one time there is used DCM and the other time there is used ether or acetone.
Only with peracetic acid DCM is used, and not with performic acid.
Since I cannot get a hold of DCM I thought.
Would it be able to convert isosafrole into MDP2P with peracetic acid, by adding acetone to isosafrole and letting that react with the peracetic acid.
And then getting the MDP2P out of it by washing it with ether insted of DCM.
And then leave it 3 hours in 15% aquaous H2SO4.
I might be quite unclear.
Here is the link to the page I ment.
https://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/peracid.html
There is completely down on the site the experiment with peracetic acid. My question now is can the DCM in that procedure be substituted by ether, or acetone(or at least another solvent than DCM).

ApprenticeCook
(Hive Bee)
07-15-04 05:29
No 519512
      Acetone can be used but....Re: There is a...

Acetone can be used but....
There is a drawback to this, and that is the possibility of the acetone reacting with the peracid forming acetone peroxide, a very unstable explosive.
Has been done just got to be especially carefull!

And then getting the MDP2P out of it by washing it with ether insted of DCM
Should be fine... but why cant you get DCM and you CAN get ether?? wow....
And then leave it 3 hours in 15% aquaous H2SO4.
Look up the HCl method (UTFSE) to get a little better yields.

Hope this helps.
-AC

Its just my opinion, but no-one listens to me anyway, and rightly so...

icexool
(Stranger)
07-15-04 11:24
No 519550
      Well I just can't find DCM, and trust me I've...

Well I just can't find DCM, and trust me I've searched for a lot of things in my explosives career and if I want to find something I find it. Exept for DCM it is impossible to get here.
Anyway I can get ether from the pharmacy.
And acetone very cheap and methanol to like 2 euro per liter.
Anyway uhm yeah indeed it is true you can get TCAP I made that many times. But I wouldn't know how not to get it, I just thought you could use a quite weak acid so it takes quite long for it to form. And keep it cool, so IF there will be AP formed it will be tricycloacetone peroxide and not dicycloacetone peroxide(very unstable compared to TCAP).
And thank you very much for the information.
And I'll have a look at the HCl method...this has not got anything to do with MDMA.HCl right.
That is after you made the MDP2P right...anyway a lot of synths use H2SO4 but I'll have a look wink

EDIT: Just was thinking about the acetone problem forming TCAP, can't methanol be used as a co-solvent insted of acetone that won't form an explosive (isopropyl alcohol won't do that either but methanol is cheaper)

abacus
(Hive Bee)
07-16-04 09:23
No 519736
      go back to school

DCM is the solvent in paint stripper, its otherwise known as methylene chloride. Are you telling us you dont have paint stripper where you live???

Unless you live in antartica you will find it. You need to learn a lot more, and all the info is here if you UTFFFFFFSE.

And, if you want to blow stuff up, go away and stay away!!!

icexool
(Stranger)
07-17-04 11:52
No 519886
      I'm not stupid

I do know it is methylene chloride, and it is sold as paint stripper.
And no we don't have paint stripper containing DCM, although there is one product containing 10% DCM, but there is SOOOO MUCH crap in there that it is almost impossible to seperate the DCM from the other crap in inside.
And I don't want to blow stuff up that's not why I'm here I'm here to learn about drug syntheses.
I thought BTW if acetone will form acetone peroxide, could you also use methanol as a co-solvent insted of DCM or acetone?

ApprenticeCook
(Hive Bee)
07-18-04 09:47
No 520053
      dcm is easy to distill bp ~40oC so if thats...

dcm is easy to distill bp ~40oC so if thats all you can find you could use it... just look up what else is in it and dicard those bp fractions.
If you look for auto paint stripper or those paint strippers labeled as quick-strip and stuff like that (very fast paint stripper) they are usually 85%ish DCM with the rest being methanol.
As for acetone, yes it has been used and can be used but you just have to be super carefull as i posted above, methanol.... ahhh dont think so... try ether as you were saying you had easy access to that... but either way (acetone/ether) you are dealing with a highly flammable solvent (ether) and one which COULD form an explosive compound so i guess both are just as bad as each other.
You best bet is to take a drive to a larger hardware store to find the DCM in quick strippers or auto paint solvents in higher % or just get the 10% stuff and distill it out....

-AC

Its just my opinion, but no-one listens to me anyway, and rightly so...

icexool
(Stranger)
07-18-04 11:35
No 520064
      I'll have another look

Well thanks for all the info everyone!
And uhm ether won't form an explosive same like with isopropyl, actually it will but nobody ever succeeded in isolating it b/c of various reasons it will only form underneath 20*C or so, anyway that is not important here.
Or maybe it is so you know you CAN use ether.
I'll have another look at DCM then at the quick stripper.
Well I can not just easy get ether, I just can get a bottle at the pharmacy, and I rather pay there some money for ether than that I have to distill my DCM which I thought would be much work, but apparently not.
Anyway I just don't want to kill myself eating my MDMA and it being heavily contaminated with DCM(no not DCM but the crap that is still in the DCM where the MDP2P was washed with) or so...

calcium
(Hive Bee)
07-18-04 14:48
No 520084
      the internet

Does your country have access to the internet?

Yes?

Then you can buy DCM. End of story.

jsorex
(Hive Addict)
07-18-04 20:34
No 520138
User Picture       Actually there has been some discussion on how

Actually there has been some discussion on how difficult it might be to distill out DCM form some paintstrippers. UTFSE for this.

It seems then that you might want to order DCM from the internet. This might be expensive if there are some extra handling fees.

ApprenticeCook
(Hive Bee)
07-19-04 11:55
No 520254
      You need to find the liquid paint strippers,...

You need to find the liquid paint strippers, people have tried with the putty sort of crap but it causes more problems than anything else...

liquid paint stripper iv used only has DCM and methanol. Easily seperated. Would the MeOH even matter? its only 18% of the bottle... Oh well, disto is quick for DCM.

-AC

Its just my opinion, but no-one listens to me anyway, and rightly so...

moo
(Hive Bee)
07-19-04 15:40
No 520289
      And washing the DCM with water a few times is...

And washing the DCM with water a few times is going to remove most of the methanol.

_{fear fear hate hate}

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	All 11 posts		Subject: MDMA synthese		Please login to post		Down


		icexool (Stranger) 07-14-04 23:22 No 519454				MDMA synthese
						I've got a question about the synthese of MDMA via the peracetic acid katalysation. I've been reading a lot on rhodium. And one time there is used DCM and the other time there is used ether or acetone. Only with peracetic acid DCM is used, and not with performic acid. Since I cannot get a hold of DCM I thought. Would it be able to convert isosafrole into MDP2P with peracetic acid, by adding acetone to isosafrole and letting that react with the peracetic acid. And then getting the MDP2P out of it by washing it with ether insted of DCM. And then leave it 3 hours in 15% aquaous H2SO4. I might be quite unclear. Here is the link to the page I ment. https://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/peracid.html There is completely down on the site the experiment with peracetic acid. My question now is can the DCM in that procedure be substituted by ether, or acetone(or at least another solvent than DCM).



		ApprenticeCook (Hive Bee) 07-15-04 05:29 No 519512				Acetone can be used but....Re: There is a...
						Acetone can be used but.... There is a drawback to this, and that is the possibility of the acetone reacting with the peracid forming acetone peroxide, a very unstable explosive. Has been done just got to be especially carefull! And then getting the MDP2P out of it by washing it with ether insted of DCM Should be fine... but why cant you get DCM and you CAN get ether?? wow.... And then leave it 3 hours in 15% aquaous H2SO4. Look up the HCl method (UTFSE) to get a little better yields. Hope this helps. -AC Its just my opinion, but no-one listens to me anyway, and rightly so...



		icexool (Stranger) 07-15-04 11:24 No 519550				Well I just can't find DCM, and trust me I've...
						Well I just can't find DCM, and trust me I've searched for a lot of things in my explosives career and if I want to find something I find it. Exept for DCM it is impossible to get here. Anyway I can get ether from the pharmacy. And acetone very cheap and methanol to like 2 euro per liter. Anyway uhm yeah indeed it is true you can get TCAP I made that many times. But I wouldn't know how not to get it, I just thought you could use a quite weak acid so it takes quite long for it to form. And keep it cool, so IF there will be AP formed it will be tricycloacetone peroxide and not dicycloacetone peroxide(very unstable compared to TCAP). And thank you very much for the information. And I'll have a look at the HCl method...this has not got anything to do with MDMA.HCl right. That is after you made the MDP2P right...anyway a lot of synths use H2SO4 but I'll have a look EDIT: Just was thinking about the acetone problem forming TCAP, can't methanol be used as a co-solvent insted of acetone that won't form an explosive (isopropyl alcohol won't do that either but methanol is cheaper)



		abacus (Hive Bee) 07-16-04 09:23 No 519736				go back to school
						DCM is the solvent in paint stripper, its otherwise known as methylene chloride. Are you telling us you dont have paint stripper where you live??? Unless you live in antartica you will find it. You need to learn a lot more, and all the info is here if you UTFFFFFFSE. And, if you want to blow stuff up, go away and stay away!!!



		icexool (Stranger) 07-17-04 11:52 No 519886				I'm not stupid
						I do know it is methylene chloride, and it is sold as paint stripper. And no we don't have paint stripper containing DCM, although there is one product containing 10% DCM, but there is SOOOO MUCH crap in there that it is almost impossible to seperate the DCM from the other crap in inside. And I don't want to blow stuff up that's not why I'm here I'm here to learn about drug syntheses. I thought BTW if acetone will form acetone peroxide, could you also use methanol as a co-solvent insted of DCM or acetone?



		ApprenticeCook (Hive Bee) 07-18-04 09:47 No 520053				dcm is easy to distill bp ~40oC so if thats...
						dcm is easy to distill bp ~40oC so if thats all you can find you could use it... just look up what else is in it and dicard those bp fractions. If you look for auto paint stripper or those paint strippers labeled as quick-strip and stuff like that (very fast paint stripper) they are usually 85%ish DCM with the rest being methanol. As for acetone, yes it has been used and can be used but you just have to be super carefull as i posted above, methanol.... ahhh dont think so... try ether as you were saying you had easy access to that... but either way (acetone/ether) you are dealing with a highly flammable solvent (ether) and one which COULD form an explosive compound so i guess both are just as bad as each other. You best bet is to take a drive to a larger hardware store to find the DCM in quick strippers or auto paint solvents in higher % or just get the 10% stuff and distill it out.... -AC Its just my opinion, but no-one listens to me anyway, and rightly so...



		icexool (Stranger) 07-18-04 11:35 No 520064				I'll have another look
						Well thanks for all the info everyone! And uhm ether won't form an explosive same like with isopropyl, actually it will but nobody ever succeeded in isolating it b/c of various reasons it will only form underneath 20*C or so, anyway that is not important here. Or maybe it is so you know you CAN use ether. I'll have another look at DCM then at the quick stripper. Well I can not just easy get ether, I just can get a bottle at the pharmacy, and I rather pay there some money for ether than that I have to distill my DCM which I thought would be much work, but apparently not. Anyway I just don't want to kill myself eating my MDMA and it being heavily contaminated with DCM(no not DCM but the crap that is still in the DCM where the MDP2P was washed with) or so...



		calcium (Hive Bee) 07-18-04 14:48 No 520084				the internet
						Does your country have access to the internet? Yes? Then you can buy DCM. End of story.



		jsorex (Hive Addict) 07-18-04 20:34 No 520138				Actually there has been some discussion on how
						Actually there has been some discussion on how difficult it might be to distill out DCM form some paintstrippers. UTFSE for this. It seems then that you might want to order DCM from the internet. This might be expensive if there are some extra handling fees.



		ApprenticeCook (Hive Bee) 07-19-04 11:55 No 520254				You need to find the liquid paint strippers,...
						You need to find the liquid paint strippers, people have tried with the putty sort of crap but it causes more problems than anything else... liquid paint stripper iv used only has DCM and methanol. Easily seperated. Would the MeOH even matter? its only 18% of the bottle... Oh well, disto is quick for DCM. -AC Its just my opinion, but no-one listens to me anyway, and rightly so...



		moo (Hive Bee) 07-19-04 15:40 No 520289				And washing the DCM with water a few times is...
						And washing the DCM with water a few times is going to remove most of the methanol. _{fear fear hate hate}

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