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All 12 posts Subject: HELP, fentanyl patch withdrawl... Please login to post Down

more4me
(Stranger)
08-08-04 20:41
No 524298
      HELP, fentanyl patch withdrawl...

frown First of all ,thanks in advance to those who take the time to offer advice and help.
I've been living with Degenerative Disc Disease for the last year and a half. In that time I've been prescribed everytihng from Oxycontin to Loricet to these patches i'm now addicted to, called Duragesic.
They deliver in vivo 50ug/h of fentanyl for 72 hours. (Well leave it to me to start slicing slivers of the patches and sucking the fentanyl out.)
Now I see a nureosurgeon who wants to take me off all medication, with the exception of Neurontin (Which I already take 900mg.)
The patches are gone and I'm starting to withdrawl something horrible.Is there anyone with advice (or experience) that can help me through this.
This (to me) is a serious situation, and I need serious help, I'm losing Valium (as a muscle relaxer), Xanax (For anxiety) and these patches I've been taking (and abusing), for 5 months.I have a small supply of temazapam,(Restoril) but it does nothing for me.
How do I deasl with this horror I feel now?I have evrery "Typical" signs of opiate withdrawl. How long will this last? What can I do? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks again....
One more thing, I'm on probation, I hit a joint 7 or 8 times how long will this be in my urine? Is this the only way to help the pain of withdrawl? How can I get away with it? It does seem like magic,We passed a marijuana initinative here in Detroit The other day...Is it time to move there from the suburbs?
Thanks to all the busy bee's again.

superman
(Hive Bee)
08-09-04 08:39
No 524397
      the only thing i can say that will help is...

the only thing i can say that will help is more painkillers, obviously.   i don't know what your doc is thinking by suddenly cutting you off painkillers if he's your only source of them and has gotten you addicted.   i suppose telling him about your withdrawal symptoms is an option.

IMO tapering down is a good way to quit.   stop taking euphoric doses, only manage the pain.   have a schedule and stick to it.

Bandil
(The Archetypical "Good Guy")
08-09-04 09:40
No 524411
      Fentanyl withdrawal

Allthough fentanyl withdrawal can be quite bad - it's over just as quickly as it comes on. Usually 48 hours of physical withdrawal is the maximum after a long period of fentanyl use. It does not seem that the intensity / length of the abuse affects the duration of the withdrawal symptoms. Only the intensity of the withdrawal seems to change. If you are able to cope with the withdrawal, without getting into any physical danger (dangerous blood pressure, etc), you should be over it in a very short time.

Regards
Bandil

Cocaine blows!

chemotype
(Newbee)
08-09-04 23:29
No 524495
      is fentanyl fun?

Is fentanyl as enjoyable as opiates & opioids?

PharmDelight
(Stranger)
08-10-04 03:04
No 524540
      Bandil is correct, that the Fentanyl withdraw...

Bandil is correct, that the Fentanyl withdraw should not even last that long. My biggest concern, however, is the benzodiazepine withdraw. This one, honestly, your not going to be doing so well. Dependent on dosage, usage, abruptness of stopping, etc., if taken for over a year (dependently), you may need medical intervention. Which, at times, they will use drugs such as a beta blocker (i.e. propanolol) to ease withdraw symptoms.

Disclaimer: Use as informational purposes only, please contact your physician for medical treatment. (even though I am at this website, I cannot "prescribe", it can jeopardize my license).

PharmDelight, PharmD, RPh

Gays have the highest substance use and the highest median income, where's the drug problem?

PharmDelight
(Stranger)
08-10-04 03:19
No 524545
      From a non-clinical aspect, opiates can be...

From a non-clinical aspect, opiates can be withdrawn, without the classic withdraw symptoms, quite remarkably, and has been clinical proven¹ by Ketamine (if you are in Detroit, trust me, it is available). Not only will it help opiates, but may well aid in benzodiazepine withdraw.

¹Karl Jansen, MD, PhD (2001) "Ketamine: Dreams and Realities"

Gays have the highest substance use and the highest median income, where's the drug problem?

paranoid
(Quick-witted Quibbler)
08-10-04 04:00
No 524560
User Picture       Jeez man, I'm sorry about your position - very

Jeez man, I'm sorry about your position - very harsh, and without much else to go on I would say a complete moron for a doctor!!!

I'm not exactly experienced in opiate and benzo withdrawl, but perhaps only cutting off one drug at a time might be an infinitely better idea.

I suppose there's always the thought of getting it over in one go cold turkey, but most people simply cannot do it like that.

Just my two cents.

My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).

superman
(Hive Bee)
08-10-04 05:08
No 524573
      "Is fentanyl as enjoyable as opiates &...

"Is fentanyl as enjoyable as opiates & opioids?"

some find it to be.   i enjoy it on occasion, though for me it loses it's appeal after a few days of usage whereas hydromorph, H, even oxycodone wouldn't. it's definately unique, and the short duration makes it very convenient.

PD, never knew that about K, but i can understand how it would help.   always cured what ailed me when i used it :)

i think the question to ask is are you being cut off for this test only or for other reasons?   maybe a few days is tolerable if just for the test?

more4me
(Stranger)
08-10-04 17:06
No 524651
      Thanks, You're still the best!

I have to tell everyone how much I appreciate their time responding to this thread. (Even a doctor...)I guess this whole ordeal will be a character builder.
Is there on-line Rx sites that can help me?
And yes, I found Fentanyl very enjoyable. Not as much as let's say Dilaudid but euphoric, (and a great analgesic none the less.)
As for finding "K" I'm usually home-bound with no social circle, so I can only wish. Thanks for the advice any way, It comes very much appreciated everyone.
My best bet now is cannabis and being on probation makes that very difficult to pull off. How long would (a non-user) have to worry about urine tests (Tested monthly.) If he/Or she used casually?
I belive cannabis to be a better medicine than some I've been on. Finding a DR. to prescribe it would be the hard part.
So I ask about on-line rx help and opinions about the medical marijuana.
Again thanks to all about the adive, I feel a little better already. A big thanks to the Doc, who offered so much advice...
You 'bees" know best...

Fastandbulbous
(Hive Bee)
08-10-04 21:12
No 524676
User Picture       Doctor enforced withdrawl

Seeing as you live in the US, where medical treatment has to be payed for, is it possible to start mentioning legal action in front of the doctor for prescribing until you were dependant, then suddenly stooping the medication (ie causing intentional distress)? Also, isn't it against AMA guidelines to suddenly stop a benzodiazepine due to the health risks involved (it is against NHS guidelines here in the UK. Anybody on long term benzos has to be transferred to an equivalent dose of diazepam, then the dosage tapered as sudden benzo withdrawl can be life threatening).

Hope you can get your doc to see it your way (even if you have to become "unpleasant" to him)

That is right, the Mascara Snake: Fast and bulbous

Prometheuz
(Hive Bee)
08-19-04 15:10
No 526301
      Extreme experiment...

Once upon a time SWIM had a decent supply of fentanyl, had used it increasingly for recreational purposes, and just wondered... "How bad can physical addiction (on this drug at least) be, compared to the psychological addiction".
So SWIM started a little experiment on that basis, having made sure that the supply would run out just about the end of the strictly enforced 1-month limit. Having a bit of tolerance, Swim started at rather high doses, even though he was working 9-17. Redosing about every 4 hours (intranasally) in the daytime, and more often, and higher doses in the evening/night. At the end SWIM was up to over 2500 µg/day, and felt like taking more - even though that would definately have removed some of his daylife functionality. On day "stop", it felt VERY unnatural to not taking a dose before making breakfast. SWIM wasn't really sure what was to come, and had made sure he had the day off - and not a speck of fentanyl left.
There was no real urge for food, just to lie apathically under the blanket. SWIM used most of that day in the bed, with some cold-sweat, muscle-aches and some shaking. Admitted, if there had been anymore in the house, I would have had a hard time resisting it around late evening. About that time the opiate-constipation is wearing off as well... You can end up spending quite some time in the shitter! Sleep was, as expected, very light and disturbed, but no benzo's or other remedies was taken to help any of the conditions; this had to be the PURE experience of cold turkey.
Next day was better - at least physically. Played some computergames, watched some movies, actually tried to keep myself a bit preoccupied most of the time. Got some better sleep than the night before.
On the third day SWIM was a bit black under the eyes - but all in all quite physically well. Never got relapses of any of the physical effects. The mental craving for the stuff is definately MUCH worse than the physical withdrawal. For SWIM, it is best described as a medium-tough flu-infection. Since that fucked up "experiment", I've always thought about people trying to stop a habit, but using the physical withdrawal to justify that they didn't succeed in stopping, as pussies. I think I had reached a high enough level of addiction to fentanyl to make my results quite valid.
Or maybe I'm just not configured as most other people, and take a long time developing hard physical dependance on a drug.
A hard benzo-withdrawal should be a lot tougher according to some sources, and taking a cold turkey to remedy a barbiturate-addiction (or extreme levels of alcohol addiction) can be lethal.
Just don't use the physical craving for Fentanyl as an excuse for not getting off the drug; that part means nearly nothing IMO compared to the mental craving, and in my eyes it's most of all a sad excuse because the addict won't admit (maybe to himself, maybe to others), that he can't put up the willpower to drop the habit.
:) Just a little story. Hope nobody got too offended about my opinions on the nature of addiction.

To fathom Hell or soar angelic
Just take a pinch of psychedelic

merbst
(Hive Bee)
08-21-04 09:17
No 526574
      Re: One more thing, I'm on probation, I hit a...

One more thing, I'm on probation, I hit a joint 7 or 8 times how long will this be in my urine? Is this the only way to help the pain of withdrawl?

Take NIACINAMIDE (500-1000mg) to COMPLETELY clear your body of THC within 24 hours. I am drug tested once a month by my buprenorphine doctor. He uses a 20 panel test (don't know the specifics, he won't tell me). I have smoked 29 days in the month, and smoked lightly the night before the test, and took a 500mg niacinamide with some water upon going to bed, and 500mg niacinamide upon waking up, and drank 1.5L of water throughout the day, and have passed the THC test on 6 seperate occasions (regarding benzos, I'm not so lucky).
Most people don't consider weed to help opioid withdrawal, but if it works for you, go for it! Immodium (loperamide HCl) is generally considered the most powerful OTC withdrawal aid, as it is an opioid which only effects the body (not the mind), it can block your physical withdrawal symptoms. Benzos are good too.

Honestly I think your new neurosurgeon is a QUACK in regards to pain and anxiety medication. If your benzo (valium) dose is high enough, sudden detox can KILL you... benzo withdrawal can induce seizures. Please see a different doctor who is more pain friendly, this guy seems to only be concerned about his own liability, not the comfort of the patient (you). If you have a chronic pain problem, you DESERVE the best pain treatment technologically available, and in this modern day and age, it includes opioids. His attempt to use neurontin in an off-label manner for killing pain, and forcing you through the immediate withdrawal of 2 drugs at once, is more than enough evidence against his compassion and medical knowledge.

Promethiuz:
I've always thought about people trying to stop a habit ... didn't succeed in stopping, as pussies.

I don't think this is a healthy meme to be carrying, as you could never know all of the motivations and drives, or the full picture of anybody's mental, psychological and physical situation to be able to judge them as "pussies".

The mental craving for the stuff is definately MUCH worse than the physical withdrawal

For SWIM, it is best described as a medium-tough flu-infection.

I think I had reached a high enough level of addiction to fentanyl to make my results quite valid.

It is this last statement I disagree with, your other statements about your level of physical dependance/addiction DO NOT support this statement. One can not dismiss the experiences of others as invalid if one has not experienced them himself. It typically takes 1 month for the BEGINNINGS of a physical tolerance to manifest itself, many people have claimed to experience NO physical withdrawal symptoms after using a strong opioid every day for MORE than a month. I would argue that somebody who has been using 1g of heroin per day for the last 5 years would definately disagree with your conclusions that withdrawal is nothing more than a medium-tough flu, and that the physical is insignficant compared to the mental. I would also bet that our original poster here who has been using medically for YEARS, not A MONTH, is experiencing symptoms much worse than those which you are generalizing to all opioid addicts to justify calling them pussies.

http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/hasty.htm

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	All 12 posts		Subject: HELP, fentanyl patch withdrawl...		Please login to post		Down


		more4me (Stranger) 08-08-04 20:41 No 524298				HELP, fentanyl patch withdrawl...
						First of all ,thanks in advance to those who take the time to offer advice and help. I've been living with Degenerative Disc Disease for the last year and a half. In that time I've been prescribed everytihng from Oxycontin to Loricet to these patches i'm now addicted to, called Duragesic. They deliver in vivo 50ug/h of fentanyl for 72 hours. (Well leave it to me to start slicing slivers of the patches and sucking the fentanyl out.) Now I see a nureosurgeon who wants to take me off all medication, with the exception of Neurontin (Which I already take 900mg.) The patches are gone and I'm starting to withdrawl something horrible.Is there anyone with advice (or experience) that can help me through this. This (to me) is a serious situation, and I need serious help, I'm losing Valium (as a muscle relaxer), Xanax (For anxiety) and these patches I've been taking (and abusing), for 5 months.I have a small supply of temazapam,(Restoril) but it does nothing for me. How do I deasl with this horror I feel now?I have evrery "Typical" signs of opiate withdrawl. How long will this last? What can I do? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks again.... One more thing, I'm on probation, I hit a joint 7 or 8 times how long will this be in my urine? Is this the only way to help the pain of withdrawl? How can I get away with it? It does seem like magic,We passed a marijuana initinative here in Detroit The other day...Is it time to move there from the suburbs? Thanks to all the busy bee's again.



		superman (Hive Bee) 08-09-04 08:39 No 524397				the only thing i can say that will help is...
						the only thing i can say that will help is more painkillers, obviously. i don't know what your doc is thinking by suddenly cutting you off painkillers if he's your only source of them and has gotten you addicted. i suppose telling him about your withdrawal symptoms is an option. IMO tapering down is a good way to quit. stop taking euphoric doses, only manage the pain. have a schedule and stick to it.



		Bandil (The Archetypical "Good Guy") 08-09-04 09:40 No 524411				Fentanyl withdrawal
						Allthough fentanyl withdrawal can be quite bad - it's over just as quickly as it comes on. Usually 48 hours of physical withdrawal is the maximum after a long period of fentanyl use. It does not seem that the intensity / length of the abuse affects the duration of the withdrawal symptoms. Only the intensity of the withdrawal seems to change. If you are able to cope with the withdrawal, without getting into any physical danger (dangerous blood pressure, etc), you should be over it in a very short time. Regards Bandil Cocaine blows!



		chemotype (Newbee) 08-09-04 23:29 No 524495				is fentanyl fun?
						Is fentanyl as enjoyable as opiates & opioids?



		PharmDelight (Stranger) 08-10-04 03:04 No 524540				Bandil is correct, that the Fentanyl withdraw...
						Bandil is correct, that the Fentanyl withdraw should not even last that long. My biggest concern, however, is the benzodiazepine withdraw. This one, honestly, your not going to be doing so well. Dependent on dosage, usage, abruptness of stopping, etc., if taken for over a year (dependently), you may need medical intervention. Which, at times, they will use drugs such as a beta blocker (i.e. propanolol) to ease withdraw symptoms. Disclaimer: Use as informational purposes only, please contact your physician for medical treatment. (even though I am at this website, I cannot "prescribe", it can jeopardize my license). PharmDelight, PharmD, RPh Gays have the highest substance use and the highest median income, where's the drug problem?



		PharmDelight (Stranger) 08-10-04 03:19 No 524545				From a non-clinical aspect, opiates can be...
						From a non-clinical aspect, opiates can be withdrawn, without the classic withdraw symptoms, quite remarkably, and has been clinical proven¹ by Ketamine (if you are in Detroit, trust me, it is available). Not only will it help opiates, but may well aid in benzodiazepine withdraw. ¹Karl Jansen, MD, PhD (2001) "Ketamine: Dreams and Realities" Gays have the highest substance use and the highest median income, where's the drug problem?



		paranoid (Quick-witted Quibbler) 08-10-04 04:00 No 524560				Jeez man, I'm sorry about your position - very
						Jeez man, I'm sorry about your position - very harsh, and without much else to go on I would say a complete moron for a doctor!!! I'm not exactly experienced in opiate and benzo withdrawl, but perhaps only cutting off one drug at a time might be an infinitely better idea. I suppose there's always the thought of getting it over in one go cold turkey, but most people simply cannot do it like that. Just my two cents. My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).



		superman (Hive Bee) 08-10-04 05:08 No 524573				"Is fentanyl as enjoyable as opiates &...
						"Is fentanyl as enjoyable as opiates & opioids?" some find it to be. i enjoy it on occasion, though for me it loses it's appeal after a few days of usage whereas hydromorph, H, even oxycodone wouldn't. it's definately unique, and the short duration makes it very convenient. PD, never knew that about K, but i can understand how it would help. always cured what ailed me when i used it :) i think the question to ask is are you being cut off for this test only or for other reasons? maybe a few days is tolerable if just for the test?



		more4me (Stranger) 08-10-04 17:06 No 524651				Thanks, You're still the best!
						I have to tell everyone how much I appreciate their time responding to this thread. (Even a doctor...)I guess this whole ordeal will be a character builder. Is there on-line Rx sites that can help me? And yes, I found Fentanyl very enjoyable. Not as much as let's say Dilaudid but euphoric, (and a great analgesic none the less.) As for finding "K" I'm usually home-bound with no social circle, so I can only wish. Thanks for the advice any way, It comes very much appreciated everyone. My best bet now is cannabis and being on probation makes that very difficult to pull off. How long would (a non-user) have to worry about urine tests (Tested monthly.) If he/Or she used casually? I belive cannabis to be a better medicine than some I've been on. Finding a DR. to prescribe it would be the hard part. So I ask about on-line rx help and opinions about the medical marijuana. Again thanks to all about the adive, I feel a little better already. A big thanks to the Doc, who offered so much advice... You 'bees" know best...



		Fastandbulbous (Hive Bee) 08-10-04 21:12 No 524676				Doctor enforced withdrawl
						Seeing as you live in the US, where medical treatment has to be payed for, is it possible to start mentioning legal action in front of the doctor for prescribing until you were dependant, then suddenly stooping the medication (ie causing intentional distress)? Also, isn't it against AMA guidelines to suddenly stop a benzodiazepine due to the health risks involved (it is against NHS guidelines here in the UK. Anybody on long term benzos has to be transferred to an equivalent dose of diazepam, then the dosage tapered as sudden benzo withdrawl can be life threatening). Hope you can get your doc to see it your way (even if you have to become "unpleasant" to him) That is right, the Mascara Snake: Fast and bulbous



		Prometheuz (Hive Bee) 08-19-04 15:10 No 526301				Extreme experiment...
						Once upon a time SWIM had a decent supply of fentanyl, had used it increasingly for recreational purposes, and just wondered... "How bad can physical addiction (on this drug at least) be, compared to the psychological addiction". So SWIM started a little experiment on that basis, having made sure that the supply would run out just about the end of the strictly enforced 1-month limit. Having a bit of tolerance, Swim started at rather high doses, even though he was working 9-17. Redosing about every 4 hours (intranasally) in the daytime, and more often, and higher doses in the evening/night. At the end SWIM was up to over 2500 µg/day, and felt like taking more - even though that would definately have removed some of his daylife functionality. On day "stop", it felt VERY unnatural to not taking a dose before making breakfast. SWIM wasn't really sure what was to come, and had made sure he had the day off - and not a speck of fentanyl left. There was no real urge for food, just to lie apathically under the blanket. SWIM used most of that day in the bed, with some cold-sweat, muscle-aches and some shaking. Admitted, if there had been anymore in the house, I would have had a hard time resisting it around late evening. About that time the opiate-constipation is wearing off as well... You can end up spending quite some time in the shitter! Sleep was, as expected, very light and disturbed, but no benzo's or other remedies was taken to help any of the conditions; this had to be the PURE experience of cold turkey. Next day was better - at least physically. Played some computergames, watched some movies, actually tried to keep myself a bit preoccupied most of the time. Got some better sleep than the night before. On the third day SWIM was a bit black under the eyes - but all in all quite physically well. Never got relapses of any of the physical effects. The mental craving for the stuff is definately MUCH worse than the physical withdrawal. For SWIM, it is best described as a medium-tough flu-infection. Since that fucked up "experiment", I've always thought about people trying to stop a habit, but using the physical withdrawal to justify that they didn't succeed in stopping, as pussies. I think I had reached a high enough level of addiction to fentanyl to make my results quite valid. Or maybe I'm just not configured as most other people, and take a long time developing hard physical dependance on a drug. A hard benzo-withdrawal should be a lot tougher according to some sources, and taking a cold turkey to remedy a barbiturate-addiction (or extreme levels of alcohol addiction) can be lethal. Just don't use the physical craving for Fentanyl as an excuse for not getting off the drug; that part means nearly nothing IMO compared to the mental craving, and in my eyes it's most of all a sad excuse because the addict won't admit (maybe to himself, maybe to others), that he can't put up the willpower to drop the habit. :) Just a little story. Hope nobody got too offended about my opinions on the nature of addiction. To fathom Hell or soar angelic Just take a pinch of psychedelic



		merbst (Hive Bee) 08-21-04 09:17 No 526574				Re: One more thing, I'm on probation, I hit a...
						One more thing, I'm on probation, I hit a joint 7 or 8 times how long will this be in my urine? Is this the only way to help the pain of withdrawl? Take NIACINAMIDE (500-1000mg) to COMPLETELY clear your body of THC within 24 hours. I am drug tested once a month by my buprenorphine doctor. He uses a 20 panel test (don't know the specifics, he won't tell me). I have smoked 29 days in the month, and smoked lightly the night before the test, and took a 500mg niacinamide with some water upon going to bed, and 500mg niacinamide upon waking up, and drank 1.5L of water throughout the day, and have passed the THC test on 6 seperate occasions (regarding benzos, I'm not so lucky). Most people don't consider weed to help opioid withdrawal, but if it works for you, go for it! Immodium (loperamide HCl) is generally considered the most powerful OTC withdrawal aid, as it is an opioid which only effects the body (not the mind), it can block your physical withdrawal symptoms. Benzos are good too. Honestly I think your new neurosurgeon is a QUACK in regards to pain and anxiety medication. If your benzo (valium) dose is high enough, sudden detox can KILL you... benzo withdrawal can induce seizures. Please see a different doctor who is more pain friendly, this guy seems to only be concerned about his own liability, not the comfort of the patient (you). If you have a chronic pain problem, you DESERVE the best pain treatment technologically available, and in this modern day and age, it includes opioids. His attempt to use neurontin in an off-label manner for killing pain, and forcing you through the immediate withdrawal of 2 drugs at once, is more than enough evidence against his compassion and medical knowledge. Promethiuz: I've always thought about people trying to stop a habit ... didn't succeed in stopping, as pussies. I don't think this is a healthy meme to be carrying, as you could never know all of the motivations and drives, or the full picture of anybody's mental, psychological and physical situation to be able to judge them as "pussies". The mental craving for the stuff is definately MUCH worse than the physical withdrawal For SWIM, it is best described as a medium-tough flu-infection. I think I had reached a high enough level of addiction to fentanyl to make my results quite valid. It is this last statement I disagree with, your other statements about your level of physical dependance/addiction DO NOT support this statement. One can not dismiss the experiences of others as invalid if one has not experienced them himself. It typically takes 1 month for the BEGINNINGS of a physical tolerance to manifest itself, many people have claimed to experience NO physical withdrawal symptoms after using a strong opioid every day for MORE than a month. I would argue that somebody who has been using 1g of heroin per day for the last 5 years would definately disagree with your conclusions that withdrawal is nothing more than a medium-tough flu, and that the physical is insignficant compared to the mental. I would also bet that our original poster here who has been using medically for YEARS, not A MONTH, is experiencing symptoms much worse than those which you are generalizing to all opioid addicts to justify calling them pussies. http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/hasty.htm

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