Hive General Discourse

	Main Index Search Register Login Who's Online FAQ Links
	Main Index Search Register Login Who's Online FAQ Links

	2 Online, 0 Active		You are not logged in

This is a historical archiveThe forum is read-only. Private information has been removed. It is not possible to login.

	General Discourse

All 35 posts Subject: THC solvent Please login to post Down

LoW_JacK
(Hive Martyr)
08-22-04 08:27
No 526744
User Picture       THC solvent

What solvent is THC soluable in that the plant waxes and chlorophyl and the rest of the trashy substances that render hash production by denatured alcohol, or methanol unfeasible. When one does a methanol or a denatured extraction (with a 2min or less exposure and shaking, followed by a quick filtration), the extracts color is a DARK green and evaporates to leave a hashlike puddy that can be scraped up and made to resemble hashish. But it'll never smoke worth a damn. It just bubbles when heated or attempted to smoke and remains sticky when thouroughly dried.

This is due to waxes and excessive plant matter in the extract. I know trichomes are the top notch source of hash and that butane extract yeilding honey/hash oil are possible. But I just wondered if THC was especially soluable in a certain liquid that make trimmings and trash leaf useable for hash.

If water is the only solvent I can find....that sucks!

http://www.dodgeit.com

Osmium
(Stoni's sexual toy)
08-22-04 08:47
No 526748
User Picture       Butane. UTFSE.

Butane. UTFSE.

BUSH/CHENEY 2004! After all, it ain't my country!
www.american-buddha.com/addict.war.1.htm

Dope_Amine
(Hive Bee)
08-23-04 16:44
No 526955
      yup

Butane is the straight fuckin' BOMB. Nothing gives a purer product and nothing yields the goods so quickly....

something for your mind.......

LoW_JacK
(Hive Martyr)
08-25-04 10:26
No 527245
User Picture       cool. I think I mentioned butane and was ...

cool. I think I mentioned butane and was seeking a more stable solvent than that. A solvent that after soaking excess plant matter (cannabis) in it , I could fractionally seperate the different chemicals like THC, CBN,ECT.

http://www.dodgeit.com

xbnmx
(Hive Bee)
08-27-04 10:06
No 527762
      Do A Search For A Thread Started By Me

Toluene or Benzene would give cleaner results than methanol, ethanol, or acetone...

These two articles by Adams et al should answer all of your questions, the citations are JACS 62 198 (1940) & 63 2211 (1941)

paranoid
(Quick-witted Quibbler)
08-28-04 03:05
No 527874
User Picture       In my experience, toluene sucks out a lot of...

In my experience, toluene sucks out a lot of the associated waxes and some pigments too. The result was a brown goo that looks much like hash when scrapped up.

I'm not convinced all the toluene had dissolved out of it too, despite the extensive evaporative period. But that might have been the paranoia kicking in after smoking. It was lousy weed - potent, but very stimulant like and made me very paranoid - and it made even lousier oil - very potent, made me extremely paranoid with a heart-beat poudning like speakers at a happy hardcore rave.

Like the old saying goes - garbage in, garbage out.

My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).

LoW_JacK
(Hive Martyr)
08-29-04 05:40
No 528068
User Picture       How about ..

a quick boiling methanol extraction, then evaporate, scrape up the gooey extract and dilute with water .Then follow this with an A/B extraction into any certain Non-polar solvent?

Would the addition of sodium hydroxide to the lower THC extract layer allow the extracts psychoactive compounds to be converted to freebase THC? or CBN,? or CBD?

This is a perplexing thought.

http://www.dodgeit.com

blunts
(Newbee)
08-29-04 21:54
No 528165
      isopropyl

Swim just tried his first isopropyl hash extract a few days ago and went quite well for the shitty yellow leaves he was using
First cut leaves into small pieces, soak in isopropyl (swim used 91% otc) for 2 minutes max, then strain and evap. Takes a while to get it really dry, try rubbing it in your hands for a while to expose the inside parts.
Cheap and easy

java
(Hive Addict)
08-29-04 22:06
No 528166
User Picture       Referenced Citations on THC Extraction

This is the citation xbnmx quoted on this thread......java

Post 496227 (lugh: "Adams' Articles", Newbee Forum)

It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.......
-Emiliano Zapata-

Dope_Amine
(Hive Bee)
09-14-04 00:19
No 531198
User Picture       you can't a/b

You can't A/B extract THC because THC doesn't have any amine groups.

something for your mind.......

C_ka
(Stranger)
09-16-04 04:03
No 531564
      IPA is the way.

That is correct, its not a alkaloid so traditional a/b techqs for other things with amine groups wont work.
it sounds like you made yourself some of what we in NZ call "commercial" hash oil.
We grade our oil by the number of times the weed is washed with IPA.
First wash (weed washed 30 sec with IPA) = golden colour, viscosity varies with how much IPA is left in the product, very sticky and thick if all IPA is gone. You keep this for yourself.

Second wash (same weed from first wash, washed 1-5 min) = Commercial, weed is washed throughly to get all possible THC out, unfortunatly this takes out HEAPS of other crap so you get lots of product, but its not very strong. Dark green/black visciocity varies. Sell this.

Use IPA again next time but only wash for the min possible time to get a more pure product (for your consumtion), then wash that weed again throughly to get the commercial to sell and make back the money you put in.

But it'll never smoke worth a damn. It just bubbles when heated or attempted to smoke and remains sticky when thouroughly dried.

Try heating up the tip of a butter knife red hot, then take a drop of that sticky black shit on the end of a needle, and rub it on the red hot bit of the knife. Bee sure to have a tube in your mouth redy to suck up the copious amounts of smoke that should billow from the tiny amount of oil.

i dont know what to write hear so ill just leave it blank.

paranoid
(Quick-witted Quibbler)
09-16-04 05:33
No 531572
User Picture       IPA is considered the cheapest way, not the...

IPA is considered the cheapest way, not the best way AFAIK. The use of several volatile non-polar solvents such as DCM or ethyl-ether should provide a superior product that evaporates cleanly.

Again, although I admit I have not tried it, the butane method appears to be the best for production of high-quality oil free of chlorophyll, sugars, and waxes. Frankly, I don't think it's much more difficult to produce than the IPA method either.

My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).

Osmium
(Stoni's sexual toy)
09-16-04 09:55
No 531592
User Picture       It's much better than any IPA method could...

It's much better than any IPA method could ever be.

BUSH/CHENEY 2004! After all, it ain't my country!
www.american-buddha.com/addict.war.1.htm

Lestat
(Hive Bee)
09-16-04 10:01
No 531593
User Picture       SWIM uses first an IPA wash to get everything...

SWIM uses first an IPA wash to get everything possible out of the powdered weed, followed by a DCM wash, ether wash, isomerisation with H2SO4 then the final butane extraction and filtration, this always yields a very satisfactory end product laugh , overkill quite probably, but it sure is potent and IMHO worthwhile.

Non omnis moriar, tenebris й clarior

Jacked
(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
09-17-04 07:13
No 531747
      butane?

I always thought butane was the best solvent for extracting THC? Being more target selective than other solvents..

Tighten Up! (UH)

Blind_Angel
(Hive Bee)
09-17-04 12:56
No 531769
User Picture       Maybe slightly off-topic, but i was wondering...

Maybe slightly off-topic, but i was wondering if soaking the plant in water with cellulase (like the one in bio washing powder) would allow more THC to be extracted by the butane wihtout getting then other shit out?

/}/_//\//) /-|/\//¬/=/_

C_ka
(Stranger)
09-19-04 06:44
No 532110
      Butane Vs IPA.

Well, i have made my own butane oil a few times before, and you dont get nearly as much as you do with the IPA in terms of net weight, because as everyone has said, IPA is not as selective and rips a lot of nasties out of your leaf.
But, i have had many IPA brews that were a lot stronger than the few (6?) butane brews i have had. This may be due to the technique used more than the solvent used, But IMHO if you get the IPA techq down, it is a lot cheaper than the butane method and you can vary the way you do it so you get "grades" of oil, instead of just having one small batch of butane oil. I also think it is easier and quicker, especially when useing larger quantities of weed. but just MHO.

Blind_Angel, i have also thought about washing the weed first in a polar solvent like h2o but dont want to waste my precious so i havent tried. i would love to find solubility tables for THC but all i can find is solubility in H2O. 0.28 g/100ml @ 23C.

"Everythng is becoming everything again....oh no.."

paranoid
(Quick-witted Quibbler)
09-19-04 19:59
No 532201
User Picture       There's no doubt about the cost effective...

There's no doubt about the cost effective efficieny of IPA -that point is not in contention.

The BEST way however, is subjective, and depends on your goal. If simply stripping the THC from a large amount of weed is your goal, you're best off with IPA or, better yet, the aforementioned NP solvents.

If quality is what you're after, butane is the champ hands down AFAIK. And yes, the method you use it is key to the success of your extraction. From my understanding, using an insulated pipe stuffed with weed and plenty of butane is a pretty effective way.

Good quality butane is probably not that hard to come by in quantity, nor all that expensive. Buying lighter refill kits is of course expensive.

As for concerns of solubility in water, a cool wash (maybe ~12°C) of powdered MJ should result in a VERY minimal loss in THC. Chlorophyll and sugars are still highly soluble at this temperature.

My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).

Blind_Angel
(Hive Bee)
09-19-04 21:32
No 532209
User Picture       The soaking in water is made with cellulase,...

The soaking in water is made with cellulase, to break down the cell, thus liberating everything in. I didn't meant to soak it simply. Just want to emphase on this... thx for your answer paranoid.

/}/_//\//) /-|/\//¬/=/_

xbnmx
(Hive Bee)
09-21-04 05:09
No 532444
      What Bonding Site

What is the bonding site for the sulfuric acid in the articles I mentioned? I know it works, I just don't understand how since the active constitutes of cannabis lack an open amine group...

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
09-22-04 17:55
No 532722
User Picture       Structure & Isomerization of Cannabidiol
(Rated as: excellent)

Structure of Cannabidiol, a Product Isolated from the Marihuana Extract of Minnesota Wild Hemp. I.
Roger Adams, Madison Hunt, and J. H. Clark
J. Am. Chem. Soc. 62, 196-200 (1940) (https://www.rhodium.ws/pdf/cannabidiol.structure.pdf)
____ ___ __ _

Structure of Cannabidiol. XII. Isomerization to Tetrahydrocannabinols
Roger Adams, C. K. Cain, W. D. McPhee, and R. B. Wearn
J. Am. Chem. Soc. 62, 2209-2213 (1941) (https://www.rhodium.ws/pdf/cannabidiol.isomerization.pdf)

Isomerization of Cannabidiol with pToluenesulfonic Acid
A solution of 0.19 g. of p-toluenesulfonic acid monohydrate and 3.14 g. of crystalline cannabidiol in 100 mL of dry benzene was refluxed for one and one-half hours. At the end of that time the alkaline Beap test was negative. The benzene solution was extracted twice with 5% aqueous bicarbonate solution and twice with water. The benzene was evaporated and the residue distilled under reduced pressure. Four fractions were collected, bp 169-172°C (0.03 mmHg), having essentially the same rotation, [α]²⁹_D -264° to -270°, and weighing 2.32g.
Rotation: 0.0694 g made up to 5 mL with 95% ethanol at 29° gave α_D -3.70°, l = 1, [α]²⁹_D -267°.

Isomerization of Cannabidiol with Sulfuric Acid
To a solution of 1.94g of crystalline cannabidiol in 35 mL of cyclohexane (free from unsaturated material) was added one drop of 100% sulfuric acid. The mixture was refluxed for one hour, at the end of which time the alkaline Beam test was negative. The solution was decanted from the sulfuric acid, washed twice with aqueous 5% bicarbonate solution and twice with water, and evaporated. The residue was distilled under reduced pressure. Three fractions were collected, bp 165-170°C (0.1 mmHg), [α]²⁹_D -259° to -269°, weight 1.51g.
Rotation: 0.0381g made up to 5 mL with acetone at 29°C gave α_D -2.10°; l = 1; [α]²⁹_D -264°.

Other relatively strong organic acids were ineffective in catalyzing the isomerization of cannabidiol in boiling benzene. One-tenth mole of acid per mole of cannabidiol was used in each case. The acids and lengths of time of refluxing were as follows: trichloroacetic twenty hours, 87% formic eleven hours, anhydrous oxalic fourteen hours, picric twenty-three hours, 3,5-dinitrobenzoic twenty-five hours, maleic twelve hours. At the end of each treatment the alkaline Beam test was positive. Finally, treatment with p-toluenesulfonic acid converted the cannabidiol to tetrahydrocannabinol of rotation [α]²⁸_D -266° to -270°.

^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}

memeep
(Newbee)
09-22-04 21:40
No 532740
User Picture       ebook: Marijuana Chemistry by Michael Starks
(Rated as: excellent)

Scanning isn't great so text has mistakes, but most are fairly obvious.

...it's turtles all the way down!

metalgirl
09-27-04 00:00
      A possible explaination for the butane extract
(Rated as: misinforming)

metalgirl
(Newbee)
09-27-04 17:20
No 533406
      phooey!

Ok, sorry...it's been about 20 years since I looked up cannabis info and the temperature effects I was refering to are from long term storage:

_{Constituents of Cannabis sativa L. XIII:}
Stability of dosage form prepared by impregnating synthetic (-)-Δ⁹-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol on placebo Cannabis plant material.
Lewis GS, Turner CE, J. Pharm. Sci. 67(6), 876-8 (1978)

Abstract
Synthetic (-)-Δ⁹-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol impregnated on placebo Cannabis decomposed only 6.3% after being stored for 1 year at -18°C.
Storage at 5°C and room temperature under various conditions led to severe decomposition.

But, I distinctly remember hexane as being a good solvent for cannabis.

Anyway, the temperature effects on thc are good to know because alot of people keep their dope in the fridge or freezer which is no good...

hest
(Hive Adickt)
09-27-04 18:02
No 533412
      ?

Storage at 5 degrees and room temperature under various conditions led to severe decomposition

alot of people keep their dope in the fridge or freezer which is no good...

Huuu Do you mean that keeping your skunk/pot in the freezer don't prolonge it's life ???

paranoid
(Quick-witted Quibbler)
09-28-04 01:38
No 533491
User Picture       I cannot conceive how there could be any truth

I cannot conceive how there could be any truth to that, other than expected degradation through time.

LSD will keep for long periods in a freezer provided it's well protected from light and air. THC sure as heck ain't gonna break down any more rapidly under the same conditions!

My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).

Drug_Phreak
(Hive Bee)
09-28-04 05:57
No 533512
      CBD source

I know that hemp seed oil is worthless to a bee seeking a source of CBD to isomerize, but what about these hemp flours that are being sold now? Any bees know if this is made from the seeds also? It must be made from the plant parts other than the seeds huh? If so... I wonder what the CBD content is. I was searching the Net for a few hours looking for this info... no luck. Well... back to searching.

Crank is part of this complete breakfast.

Ascension
(Hive Bee)
09-28-04 10:18
No 533539
User Picture       "Anyway, the temperature effects on thc...

"Anyway, the temperature effects on thc are good to know because alot of people keep their dope in the fridge or freezer which is no good... "

How can you say that when you just posted an article that states freezing temps are GOOD for storage?
I know it says 5C is bad... but a freezer is much below 5 degress... obviously.

Your an individual just like everyone else.

metalgirl
09-28-04 16:28
      (Post deleted by metalgirl)
(Rated as: misinforming)

karl
(Hive Bee)
09-28-04 22:06
No 533645
User Picture       The only way I can see that the THC would be...

The only way I can see that the THC would be at peril is if some enzyme which catalysed decomposition was released in the process of cooling. In the case of Cannabis I feel that is unlikely.

Fuck the creationists - MC Hawking

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
09-29-04 00:27
No 533665
User Picture       Elementary Comparative Statistics

Metalgirl: Here is a direct quote from your Post 533406 (metalgirl: "phooey!", General Discourse)

[Synthetic THC] decomposed only 6.3% after being stored for 1 year at -18°C.
Storage at 5°C and room temperature under various conditions led to severe decomposition.

This means:

Temp    Decomposition
- 18°C -> 6.3%
+ 5°C -> Severe
+25°C -> Severe

Thus less decomposition occurs at lower temperatures.

^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}

metalgirl
(Newbee)
09-29-04 01:02
No 533677
      shit

ok....can you believe i thought the minus was a dash...

plus i found another article that says zero degree is beneficial as well....sorry guys....freeze away

interesting non linear behaviour i must admitt

hest
(Hive Adickt)
09-29-04 07:42
No 533730
      Cool

I have some eksperience with old hash (loong storie)
Hash last almost forever, a kilbrick might oxidise in the first 2-3mm of the surface over time, but the rest is as good as new for manye manye years.
Skunk iss a different storie, and Im sure it's due to oxidationt.
Keeping skunk at room temp for a year or so will decreas the potency at app. 25%
Keeping it at 5°C for ower a year wont infuence much on the potency.

Ascension
(Hive Bee)
09-29-04 08:31
No 533734
User Picture       Its not a magical plant, its just like any...

Its not a magical plant, its just like any other plant out there.
Grab a plant from your garden and let it sit on the bench for a year, it will be compost by the end of the yr, bud wouldn't be any different.
Freeze it and you could store it for years, but if your a bud smoker and had bud in your freezer, do you really think its gonna sit their for a year?

Your an individual just like everyone else.

hest
(Hive Adickt)
09-29-04 11:37
No 533741
      Buds

A friend of mine gave mee app. 200g Cinderella 99 1½ year ago. I store it in my cooler (5°C) in an closed plastic back, and I still get's stoned from smokin some 100's mg.
I alse had a sample from the same batch in my liwingroom, it's harldy worth smoking today.

	https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org	the-hive@erowid.org



Powered by Infoflop 6.04, 2016-2020, Rhodium's Global Fanclub Ltd. Europe
Links Erowid Rhodium

	All 35 posts		Subject: THC solvent		Please login to post		Down


		LoW_JacK (Hive Martyr) 08-22-04 08:27 No 526744				THC solvent
						What solvent is THC soluable in that the plant waxes and chlorophyl and the rest of the trashy substances that render hash production by denatured alcohol, or methanol unfeasible. When one does a methanol or a denatured extraction (with a 2min or less exposure and shaking, followed by a quick filtration), the extracts color is a DARK green and evaporates to leave a hashlike puddy that can be scraped up and made to resemble hashish. But it'll never smoke worth a damn. It just bubbles when heated or attempted to smoke and remains sticky when thouroughly dried. This is due to waxes and excessive plant matter in the extract. I know trichomes are the top notch source of hash and that butane extract yeilding honey/hash oil are possible. But I just wondered if THC was especially soluable in a certain liquid that make trimmings and trash leaf useable for hash. If water is the only solvent I can find....that sucks! http://www.dodgeit.com



		Osmium (Stoni's sexual toy) 08-22-04 08:47 No 526748				Butane. UTFSE.
						Butane. UTFSE. BUSH/CHENEY 2004! After all, it ain't my country! www.american-buddha.com/addict.war.1.htm



		Dope_Amine (Hive Bee) 08-23-04 16:44 No 526955				yup
						Butane is the straight fuckin' BOMB. Nothing gives a purer product and nothing yields the goods so quickly.... something for your mind.......



		LoW_JacK (Hive Martyr) 08-25-04 10:26 No 527245				cool. I think I mentioned butane and was ...
						cool. I think I mentioned butane and was seeking a more stable solvent than that. A solvent that after soaking excess plant matter (cannabis) in it , I could fractionally seperate the different chemicals like THC, CBN,ECT. http://www.dodgeit.com



		xbnmx (Hive Bee) 08-27-04 10:06 No 527762				Do A Search For A Thread Started By Me
						Toluene or Benzene would give cleaner results than methanol, ethanol, or acetone... These two articles by Adams et al should answer all of your questions, the citations are JACS 62 198 (1940) & 63 2211 (1941)



		paranoid (Quick-witted Quibbler) 08-28-04 03:05 No 527874				In my experience, toluene sucks out a lot of...
						In my experience, toluene sucks out a lot of the associated waxes and some pigments too. The result was a brown goo that looks much like hash when scrapped up. I'm not convinced all the toluene had dissolved out of it too, despite the extensive evaporative period. But that might have been the paranoia kicking in after smoking. It was lousy weed - potent, but very stimulant like and made me very paranoid - and it made even lousier oil - very potent, made me extremely paranoid with a heart-beat poudning like speakers at a happy hardcore rave. Like the old saying goes - garbage in, garbage out. My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).



		LoW_JacK (Hive Martyr) 08-29-04 05:40 No 528068				How about ..
						a quick boiling methanol extraction, then evaporate, scrape up the gooey extract and dilute with water .Then follow this with an A/B extraction into any certain Non-polar solvent? Would the addition of sodium hydroxide to the lower THC extract layer allow the extracts psychoactive compounds to be converted to freebase THC? or CBN,? or CBD? This is a perplexing thought. http://www.dodgeit.com



		blunts (Newbee) 08-29-04 21:54 No 528165				isopropyl
						Swim just tried his first isopropyl hash extract a few days ago and went quite well for the shitty yellow leaves he was using First cut leaves into small pieces, soak in isopropyl (swim used 91% otc) for 2 minutes max, then strain and evap. Takes a while to get it really dry, try rubbing it in your hands for a while to expose the inside parts. Cheap and easy



		java (Hive Addict) 08-29-04 22:06 No 528166				Referenced Citations on THC Extraction
						This is the citation xbnmx quoted on this thread......java Post 496227 (lugh: "Adams' Articles", Newbee Forum) It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees....... -Emiliano Zapata-



		Dope_Amine (Hive Bee) 09-14-04 00:19 No 531198				you can't a/b
						You can't A/B extract THC because THC doesn't have any amine groups. something for your mind.......



		C_ka (Stranger) 09-16-04 04:03 No 531564				IPA is the way.
						That is correct, its not a alkaloid so traditional a/b techqs for other things with amine groups wont work. it sounds like you made yourself some of what we in NZ call "commercial" hash oil. We grade our oil by the number of times the weed is washed with IPA. First wash (weed washed 30 sec with IPA) = golden colour, viscosity varies with how much IPA is left in the product, very sticky and thick if all IPA is gone. You keep this for yourself. Second wash (same weed from first wash, washed 1-5 min) = Commercial, weed is washed throughly to get all possible THC out, unfortunatly this takes out HEAPS of other crap so you get lots of product, but its not very strong. Dark green/black visciocity varies. Sell this. Use IPA again next time but only wash for the min possible time to get a more pure product (for your consumtion), then wash that weed again throughly to get the commercial to sell and make back the money you put in. But it'll never smoke worth a damn. It just bubbles when heated or attempted to smoke and remains sticky when thouroughly dried. Try heating up the tip of a butter knife red hot, then take a drop of that sticky black shit on the end of a needle, and rub it on the red hot bit of the knife. Bee sure to have a tube in your mouth redy to suck up the copious amounts of smoke that should billow from the tiny amount of oil. i dont know what to write hear so ill just leave it blank.



		paranoid (Quick-witted Quibbler) 09-16-04 05:33 No 531572				IPA is considered the cheapest way, not the...
						IPA is considered the cheapest way, not the best way AFAIK. The use of several volatile non-polar solvents such as DCM or ethyl-ether should provide a superior product that evaporates cleanly. Again, although I admit I have not tried it, the butane method appears to be the best for production of high-quality oil free of chlorophyll, sugars, and waxes. Frankly, I don't think it's much more difficult to produce than the IPA method either. My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).



		Osmium (Stoni's sexual toy) 09-16-04 09:55 No 531592				It's much better than any IPA method could...
						It's much better than any IPA method could ever be. BUSH/CHENEY 2004! After all, it ain't my country! www.american-buddha.com/addict.war.1.htm



		Lestat (Hive Bee) 09-16-04 10:01 No 531593				SWIM uses first an IPA wash to get everything...
						SWIM uses first an IPA wash to get everything possible out of the powdered weed, followed by a DCM wash, ether wash, isomerisation with H2SO4 then the final butane extraction and filtration, this always yields a very satisfactory end product, overkill quite probably, but it sure is potent and IMHO worthwhile. Non omnis moriar, tenebris й clarior



		Jacked (Ancient Alchemist Delux) 09-17-04 07:13 No 531747				butane?
						I always thought butane was the best solvent for extracting THC? Being more target selective than other solvents.. Tighten Up! (UH)



		Blind_Angel (Hive Bee) 09-17-04 12:56 No 531769				Maybe slightly off-topic, but i was wondering...
						Maybe slightly off-topic, but i was wondering if soaking the plant in water with cellulase (like the one in bio washing powder) would allow more THC to be extracted by the butane wihtout getting then other shit out? /}/_//\//) /-\|/\//¬/=/_



		C_ka (Stranger) 09-19-04 06:44 No 532110				Butane Vs IPA.
						Well, i have made my own butane oil a few times before, and you dont get nearly as much as you do with the IPA in terms of net weight, because as everyone has said, IPA is not as selective and rips a lot of nasties out of your leaf. But, i have had many IPA brews that were a lot stronger than the few (6?) butane brews i have had. This may be due to the technique used more than the solvent used, But IMHO if you get the IPA techq down, it is a lot cheaper than the butane method and you can vary the way you do it so you get "grades" of oil, instead of just having one small batch of butane oil. I also think it is easier and quicker, especially when useing larger quantities of weed. but just MHO. Blind_Angel, i have also thought about washing the weed first in a polar solvent like h2o but dont want to waste my precious so i havent tried. i would love to find solubility tables for THC but all i can find is solubility in H2O. 0.28 g/100ml @ 23C. "Everythng is becoming everything again....oh no.."



		paranoid (Quick-witted Quibbler) 09-19-04 19:59 No 532201				There's no doubt about the cost effective...
						There's no doubt about the cost effective efficieny of IPA -that point is not in contention. The BEST way however, is subjective, and depends on your goal. If simply stripping the THC from a large amount of weed is your goal, you're best off with IPA or, better yet, the aforementioned NP solvents. If quality is what you're after, butane is the champ hands down AFAIK. And yes, the method you use it is key to the success of your extraction. From my understanding, using an insulated pipe stuffed with weed and plenty of butane is a pretty effective way. Good quality butane is probably not that hard to come by in quantity, nor all that expensive. Buying lighter refill kits is of course expensive. As for concerns of solubility in water, a cool wash (maybe ~12°C) of powdered MJ should result in a VERY minimal loss in THC. Chlorophyll and sugars are still highly soluble at this temperature. My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).



		Blind_Angel (Hive Bee) 09-19-04 21:32 No 532209				The soaking in water is made with cellulase,...
						The soaking in water is made with cellulase, to break down the cell, thus liberating everything in. I didn't meant to soak it simply. Just want to emphase on this... thx for your answer paranoid. /}/_//\//) /-\|/\//¬/=/_



		xbnmx (Hive Bee) 09-21-04 05:09 No 532444				What Bonding Site
						What is the bonding site for the sulfuric acid in the articles I mentioned? I know it works, I just don't understand how since the active constitutes of cannabis lack an open amine group...



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 09-22-04 17:55 No 532722				Structure & Isomerization of Cannabidiol (Rated as: excellent)
						Structure of Cannabidiol, a Product Isolated from the Marihuana Extract of Minnesota Wild Hemp. I. Roger Adams, Madison Hunt, and J. H. Clark J. Am. Chem. Soc. 62, 196-200 (1940) (https://www.rhodium.ws/pdf/cannabidiol.structure.pdf) ____ ___ __ _ Structure of Cannabidiol. XII. Isomerization to Tetrahydrocannabinols Roger Adams, C. K. Cain, W. D. McPhee, and R. B. Wearn J. Am. Chem. Soc. 62, 2209-2213 (1941) (https://www.rhodium.ws/pdf/cannabidiol.isomerization.pdf) Isomerization of Cannabidiol with pToluenesulfonic Acid A solution of 0.19 g. of p-toluenesulfonic acid monohydrate and 3.14 g. of crystalline cannabidiol in 100 mL of dry benzene was refluxed for one and one-half hours. At the end of that time the alkaline Beap test was negative. The benzene solution was extracted twice with 5% aqueous bicarbonate solution and twice with water. The benzene was evaporated and the residue distilled under reduced pressure. Four fractions were collected, bp 169-172°C (0.03 mmHg), having essentially the same rotation, [α]²⁹_D -264° to -270°, and weighing 2.32g. Rotation: 0.0694 g made up to 5 mL with 95% ethanol at 29° gave α_D -3.70°, l = 1, [α]²⁹_D -267°. Isomerization of Cannabidiol with Sulfuric Acid To a solution of 1.94g of crystalline cannabidiol in 35 mL of cyclohexane (free from unsaturated material) was added one drop of 100% sulfuric acid. The mixture was refluxed for one hour, at the end of which time the alkaline Beam test was negative. The solution was decanted from the sulfuric acid, washed twice with aqueous 5% bicarbonate solution and twice with water, and evaporated. The residue was distilled under reduced pressure. Three fractions were collected, bp 165-170°C (0.1 mmHg), [α]²⁹_D -259° to -269°, weight 1.51g. Rotation: 0.0381g made up to 5 mL with acetone at 29°C gave α_D -2.10°; l = 1; [α]²⁹_D -264°. Other relatively strong organic acids were ineffective in catalyzing the isomerization of cannabidiol in boiling benzene. One-tenth mole of acid per mole of cannabidiol was used in each case. The acids and lengths of time of refluxing were as follows: trichloroacetic twenty hours, 87% formic eleven hours, anhydrous oxalic fourteen hours, picric twenty-three hours, 3,5-dinitrobenzoic twenty-five hours, maleic twelve hours. At the end of each treatment the alkaline Beam test was positive. Finally, treatment with p-toluenesulfonic acid converted the cannabidiol to tetrahydrocannabinol of rotation [α]²⁸_D -266° to -270°. ^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}



		memeep (Newbee) 09-22-04 21:40 No 532740				ebook: Marijuana Chemistry by Michael Starks (Rated as: excellent)
						Scanning isn't great so text has mistakes, but most are fairly obvious. ...it's turtles all the way down!



		metalgirl 09-27-04 00:00				A possible explaination for the butane extract (Rated as: misinforming)



		metalgirl (Newbee) 09-27-04 17:20 No 533406				phooey!
						Ok, sorry...it's been about 20 years since I looked up cannabis info and the temperature effects I was refering to are from long term storage: _{Constituents of Cannabis sativa L. XIII:} Stability of dosage form prepared by impregnating synthetic (-)-Δ⁹-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol on placebo Cannabis plant material. Lewis GS, Turner CE, J. Pharm. Sci. 67(6), 876-8 (1978) Abstract Synthetic (-)-Δ⁹-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol impregnated on placebo Cannabis decomposed only 6.3% after being stored for 1 year at -18°C. Storage at 5°C and room temperature under various conditions led to severe decomposition. But, I distinctly remember hexane as being a good solvent for cannabis. Anyway, the temperature effects on thc are good to know because alot of people keep their dope in the fridge or freezer which is no good...



		hest (Hive Adickt) 09-27-04 18:02 No 533412				?
						Storage at 5 degrees and room temperature under various conditions led to severe decomposition alot of people keep their dope in the fridge or freezer which is no good... Huuu Do you mean that keeping your skunk/pot in the freezer don't prolonge it's life ???



		paranoid (Quick-witted Quibbler) 09-28-04 01:38 No 533491				I cannot conceive how there could be any truth
						I cannot conceive how there could be any truth to that, other than expected degradation through time. LSD will keep for long periods in a freezer provided it's well protected from light and air. THC sure as heck ain't gonna break down any more rapidly under the same conditions! My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).



		Drug_Phreak (Hive Bee) 09-28-04 05:57 No 533512				CBD source
						I know that hemp seed oil is worthless to a bee seeking a source of CBD to isomerize, but what about these hemp flours that are being sold now? Any bees know if this is made from the seeds also? It must be made from the plant parts other than the seeds huh? If so... I wonder what the CBD content is. I was searching the Net for a few hours looking for this info... no luck. Well... back to searching. *Crank is part of this complete breakfast.*



		Ascension (Hive Bee) 09-28-04 10:18 No 533539				"Anyway, the temperature effects on thc...
						"Anyway, the temperature effects on thc are good to know because alot of people keep their dope in the fridge or freezer which is no good... " How can you say that when you just posted an article that states freezing temps are GOOD for storage? I know it says 5C is bad... but a freezer is much below 5 degress... obviously. Your an individual just like everyone else.



		metalgirl 09-28-04 16:28				*(Post deleted by metalgirl)* (Rated as: misinforming)



		karl (Hive Bee) 09-28-04 22:06 No 533645				The only way I can see that the THC would be...
						The only way I can see that the THC would be at peril is if some enzyme which catalysed decomposition was released in the process of cooling. In the case of Cannabis I feel that is unlikely. Fuck the creationists - MC Hawking



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 09-29-04 00:27 No 533665				Elementary Comparative Statistics
						Metalgirl: Here is a direct quote from your Post 533406 (metalgirl: "phooey!", General Discourse) [Synthetic THC] decomposed only 6.3% after being stored for 1 year at -18°C. Storage at 5°C and room temperature under various conditions led to severe decomposition. This means: Temp Decomposition - 18°C -> 6.3% + 5°C -> Severe +25°C -> Severe Thus less decomposition occurs at lower temperatures. ^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}



		metalgirl (Newbee) 09-29-04 01:02 No 533677				shit
						ok....can you believe i thought the minus was a dash... plus i found another article that says zero degree is beneficial as well....sorry guys....freeze away interesting non linear behaviour i must admitt



		hest (Hive Adickt) 09-29-04 07:42 No 533730				Cool
						I have some eksperience with old hash (loong storie) Hash last almost forever, a kilbrick might oxidise in the first 2-3mm of the surface over time, but the rest is as good as new for manye manye years. Skunk iss a different storie, and Im sure it's due to oxidationt. Keeping skunk at room temp for a year or so will decreas the potency at app. 25% Keeping it at 5°C for ower a year wont infuence much on the potency.



		Ascension (Hive Bee) 09-29-04 08:31 No 533734				Its not a magical plant, its just like any...
						Its not a magical plant, its just like any other plant out there. Grab a plant from your garden and let it sit on the bench for a year, it will be compost by the end of the yr, bud wouldn't be any different. Freeze it and you could store it for years, but if your a bud smoker and had bud in your freezer, do you really think its gonna sit their for a year? Your an individual just like everyone else.



		hest (Hive Adickt) 09-29-04 11:37 No 533741				Buds
						A friend of mine gave mee app. 200g Cinderella 99 1½ year ago. I store it in my cooler (5°C) in an closed plastic back, and I still get's stoned from smokin some 100's mg. I alse had a sample from the same batch in my liwingroom, it's harldy worth smoking today.

All 35 posts	End of thread	Top