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All 14 posts Subject: Coke content in Vin Mariani, Original Coca Cola Please login to post Down

TomEE
(Hive Bee)
08-26-04 04:18
No 527413
      Coke content in Vin Mariani, Original Coca Cola

Hey! Got an odd question, maybe one of you bees knows the answer? How much cocaine was in original recipe Coca Cola?
How much was in Vin Mariani? Just kinda curious and can't seem to find the info elsewhere....Thanx!

dovlatov
(Hive Bee)
08-26-04 04:40
No 527419
User Picture       sniff longer

http://777-health.members.easyspace.com/coca-cola.html

I can't believe that this information is hard to find. tongue 6mg/ounce to 7.2mg/ounce in Vin Mariani?

разве знаешь, что придет пчелам в голову?

ChemoSabe
(Hive Addict)
08-26-04 12:47
No 527477
User Picture       Absorbed thru digestive tract?

I thought I had read a few places that cocaine was not active when ingested orally.

If there is an effect from the cocaine when consumed in these beverages then this must wrong. Right?

Without the existence of idiots geniuses would simply vaporize into thin air

MarleyBob
(Hive Bee)
08-26-04 15:43
No 527512
      Chemosabe

Cocaine certainly works orally, just not very effectively, as far as getting high goes frown .The plus side is that you don't get nearly as strung out crazy .

The psychoactive effect is subtle, almost benign.

Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country did to you.

Nicodem
(Hive Bee)
08-26-04 16:31
No 527524
User Picture       I read several times that ecgonine ...

I read several times that ecgonine (the hydrolysis product of cocaine) is a mild stimulant but always dismissed it as a bullshit made up to explain the stimulant activity of chewed coca leaves before it was known that cocaine passes unchanged trough the oral mucosa.
But when you drink it, how can you explain that? The methylesters are very easily hydrolyzed in the stomach and quite probably also benzoates. And ecgonine surely does not pass the BBB in any appreciable amounts. I don’t know, maybe if you consume really huge amounts of cocaine orally?

“The real drug-problem is that we need more and better drugs.” – J. Ott

MarleyBob
(Hive Bee)
08-26-04 16:44
No 527526
      ecgonine

In Swimb's expierences the cocaine wasn't necasarrily eaten entirely, and often times left to float around the mouth and do its own thing, which always numbed it out pretty good shocked .

Nicodem and Chemosabe, now that Swimb thinks about it, it certainly seems plausible that it doesn't work in the gut.

BTW, I've never orally ingested what you would probably consider a 'large amount'.

Perhaps more bioassays are in order? tongue wink blush

Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country did to you.

ChemoSabe
(Hive Addict)
08-26-04 17:21
No 527528
User Picture       Oral Absorbtion?

One of my drummer friends and one of his bass player friends knew a guy who was a crappy guitar player/undercover narco dude. And this narco cop dude would frequently invite them over to his house where he always had loads of confiscated drugs and music/electronics equipment.

This narco guy had a not so secret dream of being a rock star and he had guitars, basses, amps, a PA system and a drum kit so he got these guys to come over and jam in his garage and would share with them his confiscated drugs so that he could temporarily feel like a rock star. Usually he'd have some coke and since it was somewhat inconvenient for this drummer to snort while drumming he'd dump a load of cocaine into his beer. He claimed to get an effect from it that way.

But would the majority of it's effect be through its contact with the oral mucosa?

Without the existence of idiots geniuses would simply vaporize into thin air

TomEE
(Hive Bee)
08-26-04 18:32
No 527534
      Thanks Bro!

Yeah, I guess I didn't look hard enough...thanks for the info, Dov!

scarmani
(Hive Bee)
08-26-04 19:35
No 527543
User Picture       Oral Cocaine is More Potent than IV

Because of norcocaine

Cocaine pharmacodynamics after intravenous and oral administration in rats: relation to pharmacokinetics.
Ma F, Falk JL, Lau CE. Psychopharmacology 144(4), 323-32 (1999)
Medline (PMID=10435404)

RATIONALE: To design optimal dose regimes for oral cocaine, it is essential to characterize pharmacokinetics (PK) of cocaine after IV and PO administration. OBJECTIVES: To investigate the absolute bioavailability of oral cocaine, its effectiveness and the relation between PK and PD in a within-subject design. METHODS: We used the effects of IV and PO cocaine on a contingency-controlled timing behavior, the differential reinforcement of low rate schedule (DRL 45-s) in 3-h sessions, as the PD measures [i.e., the shorter-response rate (srr) and the reinforcement rate (rr)]. Cocaine PK parameters were determined by simultaneous modeling of the concentration-time profiles (CTPs) after IV 2 mg/kg and PO 20 mg/kg cocaine administration. The absolute oral cocaine bioavailability was determined pharmacokinetically (F) and pharmacodynamically (Fsrr and Frr). RESULTS: IV and PO cocaine increased the shorter response rate and decreased the reinforcement rate in a dose- and time-related fashion, which mirrored the respective prototypical serum cocaine CTPs. After the absorption phase, the serum cocaine CTP of PO cocaine paralleled that of IV cocaine. The duration of action for PO cocaine was longer than that for IV cocaine owing to its larger mean residence time. The active metabolite, norcocaine, was not detected after IV but after PO cocaine administration. The value of F was 4.66% which was significantly lower than the values of Fsrr (13.67%) and Frr (32.63%). Furthermore, the concentration-effect relations for the reinforcement rate revealed that PO cocaine was more potent than IV cocaine. CONCLUSIONS: Oral cocaine is more effective behaviorally than from predictions made in terms of its PK. The differences in active metabolite profiles as well as the rate and extent of acute tolerance for IV versus PO cocaine may account for the greater potency observed for oral cocaine.

boot from the shadow of a broken mirror

ChemoSabe
(Hive Addict)
08-26-04 19:46
No 527548
User Picture       mucaine

I also recall an orally ingested form of cocaine which was supposedly used for ulcer pain called mucaine although I never heard if it also had any effects beyond quelching the burn of ulcers. As I first remember it I thought it's usage might not really be helpful as it seemed to really not improve the condition of the ulcer and might serve only to make you unaware of a worsening ulcerous condition.

Here's one reference but it really doesn't give a lot of detail.

http://www.druglisting.com/Mucaine.php

Without the existence of idiots geniuses would simply vaporize into thin air

Organikum
(Wonderful Personality)
08-27-04 00:06
No 527619
      I believe that Vin Mariani and Original Coca...

I believe that Vin Mariani and Original Coca Cola were comparable expensive in these days and were consumed for taste and not gulped down for thirst. This way there was plenty of contact time in the mouth to get the cocaine taken up there.
People in these times used to drink water if they where thirsty, a habit which is not so bad compared to drinking sugarwater which got phosphoric acid added to make it drinkable again.

so near, so far......

wareami
(Hive Addict)
08-27-04 01:28
No 527636
User Picture       More Coca history...

More History...
Be sure to click on the highlighted word links on this site wink
http://www.cocaine.org/

Remember, it's not,
"Hi, how are you?" it's
"How high are you?"

Murple
(Hive Bee)
09-01-04 01:55
No 528647
      I drank coca wine quite a bit in Bolivia, as...

I drank coca wine quite a bit in Bolivia, as well as having coca tea and foods prepared with coca leaf. It isnt very strong, but it is definately active. Also worth noting that cocaine isnt the only alkaloid in coca, and the subjective effects of coca in any form (tea, wine, food, or chewed) feels quite a bit different from cocaine powder or freebase. Its possible that the effects you get from eating/drinking coca products are primarily due to other alkaloids.

CharlieBigpotato
(Bizarre pHomme de Terra)
09-01-04 03:44
No 528730
User Picture       w.w.l.r.d.?

what would lab rats do?

if you could get lab rats to touch the lever, repeatedly, for old "coke" with cocaine, and then suddenly switched the formula (but not the bottle) to "new coke" with caffiene,

would they continue to touch the lever until they were certified caffine junkies?

or would they hold out for sprite?

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	All 14 posts		Subject: Coke content in Vin Mariani, Original Coca Cola		Please login to post		Down


		TomEE (Hive Bee) 08-26-04 04:18 No 527413				Coke content in Vin Mariani, Original Coca Cola
						Hey! Got an odd question, maybe one of you bees knows the answer? How much cocaine was in original recipe Coca Cola? How much was in Vin Mariani? Just kinda curious and can't seem to find the info elsewhere....Thanx!



		dovlatov (Hive Bee) 08-26-04 04:40 No 527419				sniff longer
						http://777-health.members.easyspace.com/coca-cola.html I can't believe that this information is hard to find. 6mg/ounce to 7.2mg/ounce in Vin Mariani? разве знаешь, что придет пчелам в голову?



		ChemoSabe (Hive Addict) 08-26-04 12:47 No 527477				Absorbed thru digestive tract?
						I thought I had read a few places that cocaine was not active when ingested orally. If there is an effect from the cocaine when consumed in these beverages then this must wrong. Right? Without the existence of idiots geniuses would simply vaporize into thin air



		MarleyBob (Hive Bee) 08-26-04 15:43 No 527512				Chemosabe
						Cocaine certainly works orally, just not very effectively, as far as getting high goes.The plus side is that you don't get nearly as strung out . The psychoactive effect is subtle, almost benign. Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country did to you.



		Nicodem (Hive Bee) 08-26-04 16:31 No 527524				I read several times that ecgonine ...
						I read several times that ecgonine (the hydrolysis product of cocaine) is a mild stimulant but always dismissed it as a bullshit made up to explain the stimulant activity of chewed coca leaves before it was known that cocaine passes unchanged trough the oral mucosa. But when you drink it, how can you explain that? The methylesters are very easily hydrolyzed in the stomach and quite probably also benzoates. And ecgonine surely does not pass the BBB in any appreciable amounts. I don’t know, maybe if you consume really huge amounts of cocaine orally? “The real drug-problem is that we need more and better drugs.” – J. Ott



		MarleyBob (Hive Bee) 08-26-04 16:44 No 527526				ecgonine
						In Swimb's expierences the cocaine wasn't necasarrily eaten entirely, and often times left to float around the mouth and do its own thing, which always numbed it out pretty good. Nicodem and Chemosabe, now that Swimb thinks about it, it certainly seems plausible that it doesn't work in the gut. BTW, I've never orally ingested what you would probably consider a 'large amount'. Perhaps more bioassays are in order? Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country did to you.



		ChemoSabe (Hive Addict) 08-26-04 17:21 No 527528				Oral Absorbtion?
						One of my drummer friends and one of his bass player friends knew a guy who was a crappy guitar player/undercover narco dude. And this narco cop dude would frequently invite them over to his house where he always had loads of confiscated drugs and music/electronics equipment. This narco guy had a not so secret dream of being a rock star and he had guitars, basses, amps, a PA system and a drum kit so he got these guys to come over and jam in his garage and would share with them his confiscated drugs so that he could temporarily feel like a rock star. Usually he'd have some coke and since it was somewhat inconvenient for this drummer to snort while drumming he'd dump a load of cocaine into his beer. He claimed to get an effect from it that way. But would the majority of it's effect be through its contact with the oral mucosa? Without the existence of idiots geniuses would simply vaporize into thin air



		TomEE (Hive Bee) 08-26-04 18:32 No 527534				Thanks Bro!
						Yeah, I guess I didn't look hard enough...thanks for the info, Dov!



		scarmani (Hive Bee) 08-26-04 19:35 No 527543				Oral Cocaine is More Potent than IV
						Because of norcocaine Cocaine pharmacodynamics after intravenous and oral administration in rats: relation to pharmacokinetics. Ma F, Falk JL, Lau CE. Psychopharmacology 144(4), 323-32 (1999) Medline (PMID=10435404) RATIONALE: To design optimal dose regimes for oral cocaine, it is essential to characterize pharmacokinetics (PK) of cocaine after IV and PO administration. OBJECTIVES: To investigate the absolute bioavailability of oral cocaine, its effectiveness and the relation between PK and PD in a within-subject design. METHODS: We used the effects of IV and PO cocaine on a contingency-controlled timing behavior, the differential reinforcement of low rate schedule (DRL 45-s) in 3-h sessions, as the PD measures [i.e., the shorter-response rate (srr) and the reinforcement rate (rr)]. Cocaine PK parameters were determined by simultaneous modeling of the concentration-time profiles (CTPs) after IV 2 mg/kg and PO 20 mg/kg cocaine administration. The absolute oral cocaine bioavailability was determined pharmacokinetically (F) and pharmacodynamically (Fsrr and Frr). RESULTS: IV and PO cocaine increased the shorter response rate and decreased the reinforcement rate in a dose- and time-related fashion, which mirrored the respective prototypical serum cocaine CTPs. After the absorption phase, the serum cocaine CTP of PO cocaine paralleled that of IV cocaine. The duration of action for PO cocaine was longer than that for IV cocaine owing to its larger mean residence time. The active metabolite, norcocaine, was not detected after IV but after PO cocaine administration. The value of F was 4.66% which was significantly lower than the values of Fsrr (13.67%) and Frr (32.63%). Furthermore, the concentration-effect relations for the reinforcement rate revealed that PO cocaine was more potent than IV cocaine. CONCLUSIONS: Oral cocaine is more effective behaviorally than from predictions made in terms of its PK. The differences in active metabolite profiles as well as the rate and extent of acute tolerance for IV versus PO cocaine may account for the greater potency observed for oral cocaine. boot from the shadow of a broken mirror



		ChemoSabe (Hive Addict) 08-26-04 19:46 No 527548				mucaine
						I also recall an orally ingested form of cocaine which was supposedly used for ulcer pain called mucaine although I never heard if it also had any effects beyond quelching the burn of ulcers. As I first remember it I thought it's usage might not really be helpful as it seemed to really not improve the condition of the ulcer and might serve only to make you unaware of a worsening ulcerous condition. Here's one reference but it really doesn't give a lot of detail. http://www.druglisting.com/Mucaine.php Without the existence of idiots geniuses would simply vaporize into thin air



		Organikum (Wonderful Personality) 08-27-04 00:06 No 527619				I believe that Vin Mariani and Original Coca...
						I believe that Vin Mariani and Original Coca Cola were comparable expensive in these days and were consumed for taste and not gulped down for thirst. This way there was plenty of contact time in the mouth to get the cocaine taken up there. People in these times used to drink water if they where thirsty, a habit which is not so bad compared to drinking sugarwater which got phosphoric acid added to make it drinkable again. so near, so far......



		wareami (Hive Addict) 08-27-04 01:28 No 527636				More Coca history...
						More History... Be sure to click on the highlighted word links on this site http://www.cocaine.org/ Remember, it's not, "Hi, how are you?" it's "How high are you?"



		Murple (Hive Bee) 09-01-04 01:55 No 528647				I drank coca wine quite a bit in Bolivia, as...
						I drank coca wine quite a bit in Bolivia, as well as having coca tea and foods prepared with coca leaf. It isnt very strong, but it is definately active. Also worth noting that cocaine isnt the only alkaloid in coca, and the subjective effects of coca in any form (tea, wine, food, or chewed) feels quite a bit different from cocaine powder or freebase. Its possible that the effects you get from eating/drinking coca products are primarily due to other alkaloids.



		CharlieBigpotato (Bizarre pHomme de Terra) 09-01-04 03:44 No 528730				w.w.l.r.d.?
						what would lab rats do? if you could get lab rats to touch the lever, repeatedly, for old "coke" with cocaine, and then suddenly switched the formula (but not the bottle) to "new coke" with caffiene, would they continue to touch the lever until they were certified caffine junkies? or would they hold out for sprite?

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