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All 10 posts Subject: Yield per Shrub Please login to post Down

Drug_Phreak
(Hive Bee)
09-06-04 21:48
No 529968
      Yield per Shrub

SWIDP is thinking about growing some Coca when the growing season starts again. SWIDP knows that doing so is a hassle in most places for many reasons, but since SWIDP loves it so much they are willing to deal with it. Plus it would be a good learning experience for SWIDP. I'm always trying to learn new things and wondering what the next adventure will be. The only yields of Coca leaves I can find are per acre and hectare. I know that Erythroxylum Coca and Erythroxylum Novogranatense can grow up to 12+ feet, but the growers in South America keep them down to about three feet to make the harvesting easier. So lets say if SWIDP grew 20 Coca shrubs and let them reach their maximum height... how much leaves (in dry weight) could SWIDP obtain if the leaves where harvested twice from each shrub during the growing season? Any South American bees know? Any bees at all?

Also, I've read conflicting data on the amount of Cocaine HCl that can be made from the leaves of average potency Erythroxylum Coca. I've read 1000Kg of leaves per Pound of Cocaine HCl (sounds way too high), 1000LB of leaves per Pound of Cocaine HCl (still sounds too high), 400-500LB of leaves per Pound of Cocaine HCl (sounds more like it), and 100Kg or 100LB of leaves per Pound of Cocaine HCl (sounds too low). Any bees know what it is for sure? Sometimes SWIDP gets crazy ideas and starts contemplating a way to ship some Coca leaves to themselves somehow. Do any bees think that if SWIDP met someone from Peru or Bolivia and was nearly 100% certain they where not some form of LE and had this person ship around 100 pounds of leaves to SWIDP would it be more likely that this shipment wouldn't be confiscated vs. a shipment of powder? Of course this shipment would have to be well thought out. SWIDP has a lot of ideas for doing this, but there is only one way to find out if they would work. wink laugh

Crank is part of this complete breakfast.

xbnmx
(Hive Bee)
09-06-04 23:17
No 529996
      It Isn't Like Growing Cannabis

These plants are extremely difficult to grow, start off as overly sensative seedlings, and need high altitudes. And besides, it takes years for them to get to a size at which you can harvest them. And to top it off, more people than you think know what they look like. Be careful...

Scottydog
(Hive Addict)
09-07-04 04:55
No 530056
User Picture       Plant Zones

You may want to compare the plant zones of Peru or Bolivia to the climate in which you are residing. This mission of yours may bee more difficult than you can imagine. What may grow in Ft Lauderdale Fl may not grow in Phoenix Az etc.. There are horticulture books that break down plants according to their common and latin names and match it UP with a specific "climate" or zone.

Certain conditions can bee replicated in an indoor or greenhouse environment, others require additional eqpt but it can bee done with money, research and creativity.

http://www.songsparrow.com/2004/plantzone.cfm

Refuse/Resist

placebo
(arrogant bee of the day)
09-07-04 09:01
No 530089
User Picture       Assuming you are in the USA, how do you intend

Assuming you are in the USA, how do you intend growing them? It is well known that the level of altitude is directly proportional to the alkaloids in the plant. So don't bother unless you live in the minimum altitude required. Otherwise, assuming you could get the seeds to germinate, they will not produce alkaloids in a quantity worth the trouble.

Which brings me to my second point, which is the seeds, from what I have read, they are only viable for a max of 2 weeks. (50%) I am not that familiar with the altitude of US mountains but if you live in the highest areas of the US, and can get the seeds quickly you may have a shot.

Please expand on your ideas, sounds like pipe dreams to me. If the US had land at a great enough altitude, it would have been done already. I have looked into growing it myself, unfortunately, Oz has little more then mounds of land called hills and far short of the altitude required. Getting seeds from S.A is easy. The info I haven't been able to aquire yet is.... Are the needs of the plant (altitude) depend on, lack of oxygen or reduced pressure, or other. Both can be artificially simulated in a controlled environment, but one is a lot easier then the other. I fear it is reduced pressure.

Does anybody know?

I'm not fat, I'm just too short for my weight.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com

Osmium
(Stoni's sexual toy)
09-07-04 10:08
No 530095
User Picture       > Sometimes SWIDP gets crazy ideas and...

> Sometimes SWIDP gets crazy ideas and starts contemplating a way to ship some
> Coca leaves to themselves somehow.

Yes indeed, that's a dumb idea.

> ship around 100 pounds of leaves to SWIDP would it be more likely that this
> shipment wouldn't be confiscated vs. a shipment of powder?

The US doesn't allow plants, soil, foodstuff to be imported without the necessary permits. Even tourists arriving at US airports have to throw away their leftover food.
People have tried to import traditional coca-containing teas into the US and were busted for that, even though the tea was meant for regular consumption and the amount of alkaloids present was very small and not sufficient for extraction purposes.

BUSH/CHENEY 2004! After all, it ain't my country!
www.american-buddha.com/addict.war.1.htm

Drug_Phreak
(Hive Bee)
09-07-04 20:09
No 530154
      Well... DrugPhreak has never let anything that

Well... DrugPhreak has never let anything that was considered difficult or dangerous get in their way. SWIDP is going to try this next season where their friend lives, which is not in a tropical environment, but it is in the mountains/forest at an elevation of around 2000 feet... SWIDP needs to check exactly what it is. This area also gets a lot of rain and during the growing season it is really humid most of the time. The temperature during the growing season is around 75-90° in the day and around 65-80° at night. The shrubs will be grown in large pots so they can be brought into the house during the winter, which is very cold. SWIDP is going to have to time the ordering of seeds just right and start them inside. I read that dipping the seeds in a 3% solution of citric acid can keep the seeds viable for close to two months so SWIDP will ask the person they are ordering from to do that. SWIDP will start the shrubs inside and won’t put them outside until they are two years old. The saplings will be in partial shade until they are at least a foot tall and then placed next to a very large window in SWIDP friends house.

I’ve read that there is more CO2 at higher altitudes, which increases the alkaloid content of Coca... is that true? SWIDP was thinking about growing them in a completely artificial environment, but that would cost them way more than they already plan to spend. There is a place that is not too far from me that has a botanical gardens and there is a room there that completely mimics the environment of the South American rain forest... they have banana trees in there and all that. All the plants/trees in there look like they are extremely healthy. When SWIDP went in there their brain almost went haywire just thinking about all the Coca they could grow in that room. It seems like plants like me for some reason or I just have a green thumb because I’ve never had many problems growing any plants/trees. SWIDP has even got Poppies to transplant well. Osmium... that’s weird because I have ordered a lot of (legal) plants and other plant related things before from all over the world and nobody ever asked me for a permit. I’ve had problems like that when going through the border though.

Crank is part of this complete breakfast.

jsorex
(Hive Addict)
09-07-04 20:32
No 530162
      The funny thing is that even though coca seeds

The funny thing is that even though coca seeds are not illegal afaik here, you cannot get them anywhere. Cannabis seeds you can order legally from anywhere as long as you don't make any drugs, but Coca seeds I've yet to see been sold any place.

lineman
(Stranger)
09-08-04 08:50
No 530287
User Picture       US Coca Growing

Coca grows fine in my home state of Nevada, even at lower elevations. It grows slowly yet happily, given lots of sun. The rumor is that patches of coca are sometimes grown in the mountains sort of like pot, but the patches don't get recognised and chopped like pot does.

Bioassay with 2 fresh leaves, in tea with baking soda tasted yucky but was nicer than coffee. Also caused a hot feeling in the throat not unlike a hot pepper which was not strong enough to be a problem.

Here in Nevada near where I have lived for 9 years, I have seen a nice plant, maybe 3 feet tall with a hundred leaves. It looked rather healthy even though it was being neglected by its owners.

It grows well from cuttings, though the cuttings take a long time to grow roots.

embezzler
(Hive Addict)
09-08-04 14:34
No 530309
User Picture       jsorex

i think that there are export restrictions on the seeds of the coca plant from south america

ironic in itself

Drug_Phreak
(Hive Bee)
09-09-04 01:15
No 530411
      Re: I have seen a nice plant, maybe 3 feet...

I have seen a nice plant, maybe 3 feet tall with a hundred leaves. It looked rather healthy even though it was being neglected by its owners.

SWIDP couldn't stop smiling when they read that. SWIDP knows that this Coca growing project is going to be a real chore, but also believes that the troubles of growing Coca have been exaggerated somewhat. Yes, international trade of Coca seeds has been illegal since 1971, but there are a lot of sources that are willing to ship seeds and plants discreetly. Acquisition of the seeds is not really the problem... proper identification is in SWIDP opinion as there are about 250 different species.

Crank is part of this complete breakfast.

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	All 10 posts		Subject: Yield per Shrub		Please login to post		Down


		Drug_Phreak (Hive Bee) 09-06-04 21:48 No 529968				Yield per Shrub
						SWIDP is thinking about growing some Coca when the growing season starts again. SWIDP knows that doing so is a hassle in most places for many reasons, but since SWIDP loves it so much they are willing to deal with it. Plus it would be a good learning experience for SWIDP. I'm always trying to learn new things and wondering what the next adventure will be. The only yields of Coca leaves I can find are per acre and hectare. I know that Erythroxylum Coca and Erythroxylum Novogranatense can grow up to 12+ feet, but the growers in South America keep them down to about three feet to make the harvesting easier. So lets say if SWIDP grew 20 Coca shrubs and let them reach their maximum height... how much leaves (in dry weight) could SWIDP obtain if the leaves where harvested twice from each shrub during the growing season? Any South American bees know? Any bees at all? Also, I've read conflicting data on the amount of Cocaine HCl that can be made from the leaves of average potency Erythroxylum Coca. I've read 1000Kg of leaves per Pound of Cocaine HCl (sounds way too high), 1000LB of leaves per Pound of Cocaine HCl (still sounds too high), 400-500LB of leaves per Pound of Cocaine HCl (sounds more like it), and 100Kg or 100LB of leaves per Pound of Cocaine HCl (sounds too low). Any bees know what it is for sure? Sometimes SWIDP gets crazy ideas and starts contemplating a way to ship some Coca leaves to themselves somehow. Do any bees think that if SWIDP met someone from Peru or Bolivia and was nearly 100% certain they where not some form of LE and had this person ship around 100 pounds of leaves to SWIDP would it be more likely that this shipment wouldn't be confiscated vs. a shipment of powder? Of course this shipment would have to be well thought out. SWIDP has a lot of ideas for doing this, but there is only one way to find out if they would work. *Crank is part of this complete breakfast.*



		xbnmx (Hive Bee) 09-06-04 23:17 No 529996				It Isn't Like Growing Cannabis
						These plants are extremely difficult to grow, start off as overly sensative seedlings, and need high altitudes. And besides, it takes years for them to get to a size at which you can harvest them. And to top it off, more people than you think know what they look like. Be careful...



		Scottydog (Hive Addict) 09-07-04 04:55 No 530056				Plant Zones
						You may want to compare the plant zones of Peru or Bolivia to the climate in which you are residing. This mission of yours may bee more difficult than you can imagine. What may grow in Ft Lauderdale Fl may not grow in Phoenix Az etc.. There are horticulture books that break down plants according to their common and latin names and match it UP with a specific "climate" or zone. Certain conditions can bee replicated in an indoor or greenhouse environment, others require additional eqpt but it can bee done with money, research and creativity. http://www.songsparrow.com/2004/plantzone.cfm Refuse/Resist



		placebo (arrogant bee of the day) 09-07-04 09:01 No 530089				Assuming you are in the USA, how do you intend
						Assuming you are in the USA, how do you intend growing them? It is well known that the level of altitude is directly proportional to the alkaloids in the plant. So don't bother unless you live in the minimum altitude required. Otherwise, assuming you could get the seeds to germinate, they will not produce alkaloids in a quantity worth the trouble. Which brings me to my second point, which is the seeds, from what I have read, they are only viable for a max of 2 weeks. (50%) I am not that familiar with the altitude of US mountains but if you live in the highest areas of the US, and can get the seeds quickly you may have a shot. Please expand on your ideas, sounds like pipe dreams to me. If the US had land at a great enough altitude, it would have been done already. I have looked into growing it myself, unfortunately, Oz has little more then mounds of land called hills and far short of the altitude required. Getting seeds from S.A is easy. The info I haven't been able to aquire yet is.... Are the needs of the plant (altitude) depend on, lack of oxygen or reduced pressure, or other. Both can be artificially simulated in a controlled environment, but one is a lot easier then the other. I fear it is reduced pressure. Does anybody know? I'm not fat, I'm just too short for my weight. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com



		Osmium (Stoni's sexual toy) 09-07-04 10:08 No 530095				> Sometimes SWIDP gets crazy ideas and...
						> Sometimes SWIDP gets crazy ideas and starts contemplating a way to ship some > Coca leaves to themselves somehow. Yes indeed, that's a dumb idea. > ship around 100 pounds of leaves to SWIDP would it be more likely that this > shipment wouldn't be confiscated vs. a shipment of powder? The US doesn't allow plants, soil, foodstuff to be imported without the necessary permits. Even tourists arriving at US airports have to throw away their leftover food. People have tried to import traditional coca-containing teas into the US and were busted for that, even though the tea was meant for regular consumption and the amount of alkaloids present was very small and not sufficient for extraction purposes. BUSH/CHENEY 2004! After all, it ain't my country! www.american-buddha.com/addict.war.1.htm



		Drug_Phreak (Hive Bee) 09-07-04 20:09 No 530154				Well... DrugPhreak has never let anything that
						Well... DrugPhreak has never let anything that was considered difficult or dangerous get in their way. SWIDP is going to try this next season where their friend lives, which is not in a tropical environment, but it is in the mountains/forest at an elevation of around 2000 feet... SWIDP needs to check exactly what it is. This area also gets a lot of rain and during the growing season it is really humid most of the time. The temperature during the growing season is around 75-90° in the day and around 65-80° at night. The shrubs will be grown in large pots so they can be brought into the house during the winter, which is very cold. SWIDP is going to have to time the ordering of seeds just right and start them inside. I read that dipping the seeds in a 3% solution of citric acid can keep the seeds viable for close to two months so SWIDP will ask the person they are ordering from to do that. SWIDP will start the shrubs inside and won’t put them outside until they are two years old. The saplings will be in partial shade until they are at least a foot tall and then placed next to a very large window in SWIDP friends house. I’ve read that there is more CO2 at higher altitudes, which increases the alkaloid content of Coca... is that true? SWIDP was thinking about growing them in a completely artificial environment, but that would cost them way more than they already plan to spend. There is a place that is not too far from me that has a botanical gardens and there is a room there that completely mimics the environment of the South American rain forest... they have banana trees in there and all that. All the plants/trees in there look like they are extremely healthy. When SWIDP went in there their brain almost went haywire just thinking about all the Coca they could grow in that room. It seems like plants like me for some reason or I just have a green thumb because I’ve never had many problems growing any plants/trees. SWIDP has even got Poppies to transplant well. Osmium... that’s weird because I have ordered a lot of (legal) plants and other plant related things before from all over the world and nobody ever asked me for a permit. I’ve had problems like that when going through the border though. *Crank is part of this complete breakfast.*



		jsorex (Hive Addict) 09-07-04 20:32 No 530162				The funny thing is that even though coca seeds
						The funny thing is that even though coca seeds are not illegal afaik here, you cannot get them anywhere. Cannabis seeds you can order legally from anywhere as long as you don't make any drugs, but Coca seeds I've yet to see been sold any place.



		lineman (Stranger) 09-08-04 08:50 No 530287				US Coca Growing
						Coca grows fine in my home state of Nevada, even at lower elevations. It grows slowly yet happily, given lots of sun. The rumor is that patches of coca are sometimes grown in the mountains sort of like pot, but the patches don't get recognised and chopped like pot does. Bioassay with 2 fresh leaves, in tea with baking soda tasted yucky but was nicer than coffee. Also caused a hot feeling in the throat not unlike a hot pepper which was not strong enough to be a problem. Here in Nevada near where I have lived for 9 years, I have seen a nice plant, maybe 3 feet tall with a hundred leaves. It looked rather healthy even though it was being neglected by its owners. It grows well from cuttings, though the cuttings take a long time to grow roots.



		embezzler (Hive Addict) 09-08-04 14:34 No 530309				jsorex
						i think that there are export restrictions on the seeds of the coca plant from south america ironic in itself



		Drug_Phreak (Hive Bee) 09-09-04 01:15 No 530411				Re: I have seen a nice plant, maybe 3 feet...
						I have seen a nice plant, maybe 3 feet tall with a hundred leaves. It looked rather healthy even though it was being neglected by its owners. SWIDP couldn't stop smiling when they read that. SWIDP knows that this Coca growing project is going to be a real chore, but also believes that the troubles of growing Coca have been exaggerated somewhat. Yes, international trade of Coca seeds has been illegal since 1971, but there are a lot of sources that are willing to ship seeds and plants discreetly. Acquisition of the seeds is not really the problem... proper identification is in SWIDP opinion as there are about 250 different species. *Crank is part of this complete breakfast.*

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