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All 5 posts Subject: Drug war costs... Please login to post Thread doesn't expire Down

BlaseDeviant
(Hive Bee)
09-20-04 22:37
No 532389
      Drug war costs...
(Rated as: Wrong Forum)

I'm curious; if the drug war were to end (all drugs legal, unscheduled/controlled), and all drug offenders to be turned loose (I'm pretty sure they'd stay in there though, even if it were ended sort of like reverse ex post facto... or would they be let loose, damn I should know things like that), what would be the total percentage of tax dollars saved, via abolishment of the DEA, less police time, less prison capacity filled/food bought for prisoners/etc?

Anyone have a guess, in dollars or percentage? I know it'd be a fair bit, but a fair bit is a pretty broad description.

Of course, some of the savings would be kept and spent in other ways by the government, naturally, but I'm wondering how much of my paycheck is being wasted trying to catch, prosecute, and house/feed in jail the dealer on the corner or joe schmoe buying an eightball off his friend.

So differently divine...

KiZaDm
(Hive Addict)
09-20-04 23:18
No 532391
User Picture       here some idea
(Rated as: good read)

its a little dated but i can assure you things have gotten worse not better...

and finally, some cruel irony( in color for your veiwing pleasure):

and more recently:

Drug Czar's Office Masks True Costs of War on Drugs in Federal Budget 2/21/03

(press release from Drug Policy Alliance)

Using new accounting procedures, this year's White House Drug Strategy, released last week, looks different from past years, with little actual change. This year's drug strategy for the first time ever conceals billions of dollars spent on incarcerating drug offenders and certain law enforcement efforts by excluding these categories from the budget, while including inflated expenditures on treatment services. Recent polling by Peter Hart Research Associates shows that nearly two-thirds of Americans want treatment, not incarceration, for nonviolent drug offenders. The 2003 Drug Strategy plays to this public sentiment by appearing as if it's focused on treatment, but in reality it continues the same reliance on law enforcement and interdiction.

An analysis of the new budget numbers revealed that by hiding the costs of incarceration, military activities and other known costs of the drug war, the Office of National Drug Control Policy was able to bring their enforcement to treatment ratios more into line with public sentiment. Last year, the Office stated it spent 33% of the drug war budget on drug treatment and prevention activities while 67% went to law enforcement and interdiction. This year, despite making no substantive spending changes, the Office claims to be spending 47% on drug treatment and only 53% on law enforcement activities. In addition, the office appears to inflate its numbers by including alcohol treatment, which by law is specifically excluded from their scope of responsibilities.

The White House's 2003 National Drug Control Strategy is deceptive in numerous ways:

THE DRUG CZAR DISTORTS THE TRUE COST OF THE FEDERAL DRUG WAR

The new 2003 Drug Strategy shows the federal government spending only about $11 billion dollars a year, when the real cost (more accurately reflected in last year's drug strategy) is around $20 billion. ONDCP said it will not count drug war expenditures by many law enforcement agencies, while acknowledging that these agencies will remain focused on drug control efforts.

THE DRUG CZAR DISTORTS THE AMOUNT SPENT ON TREATMENT VS. THE AMOUNT SPENT ON LAW ENFORCEMENT

* By reducing reported law enforcement costs, eliminating reported prison costs, and artificially boosting reported drug treatment expenditures, ONDCP Director John Walters attempts to make the drug war look more compassionate. Although the actual drug war budget maintains focused on supply reduction (with nearly 70 percent of the budget), the new drug strategy makes the assertion that spending is almost split evenly between supply and demand efforts. This distortion makes the drug war look more humane, and makes it harder for drug treatment and prevention groups to advocate for needed additional funding.

THE DRUG CZAR STOPS COUNTING THE COST OF IMPRISONING NONVIOLENT DRUG OFFENDERS

ONDCP reduces the official estimate of federal drug war costs by eliminating agencies that mainly focus on the consequences associated with the activities of other primary counter-drug agencies. This means, among other things, not counting the costs of imprisoning federal nonviolent drug offenders at about $3 billion a year. According to the ONDCP, although these [prison costs] are real costs to society, they do not factor into the core of drug law enforcement decisions made by national policymakers. Yet these costs result directly from federal drug war policies.

THE DRUG CZAR APPEARS TO OVER-REPORT TREATMENT EXPENDITURES

Although ONDCP stops counting many law enforcement expenses, it appears to continue counting many drug treatment and prevention expenses for agencies not actually involved in drug war efforts. It may also fraudulently increase the amount of federal drug treatment expenditures reported to Congress and the public by counting money spent reducing alcohol abuse, even though ONDCP's charter specifically excludes alcohol from its scope of responsibilities.

"These changes are especially alarming because they leave Members of Congress and the American public without accurate information about the real costs of the failed war on drugs," said Drug Policy Alliance executive director Ethan Nadelmann. "Computing the drug war budget without incarceration is like computing the Defense budget without soldiers. That's far fetched, even by Washington standards."

Visit http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/02_12_03fuzzy.cfm for further information.

Ph # 954-287-0023

ChemoSabe
(Hive Addict)
09-21-04 00:03
No 532395
User Picture       Annual Drug Death

Great stats Kiza. I actually burst out laughing at the one concerning annual drug deaths.

he's either got a lightbulb up his ass or his colon has a brilliant idea

Jade
(soccer mom)
09-21-04 02:48
No 532419
User Picture       more...

Shocked? I hope so. If we divide the alledged, assumed, and in some cases flat out invented "costs" of drug use in America, the picture that emerges is a lot different than the one handed to us by the ONDCP study from which all the data presented in this report is taken.

First, here's a listing dividing the costs of drug use into two piles:

the costs of drug use

Health Care Costs
Premature Death
Institutionalization/Hospitalization
Victims Productivity
Crime Victims Property Damage
Social Welfare

the costs of trying to stop drug use

Lost Wages Due to Incarceration
Police Services
Legal System Costs
State and Federal Corrections
Local Corrections
Federal Anti-drug Budget
Private Legal Costs
Drug Abuse Related Illness
Crime Careers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Costs of Drug Use

Health Care Costs - 60% of health care costs are accounted for by Community-Based Treatment programs and treating those HIV/AIDS patients claimed as drug-related. In 2000, this total was estimated at approximately $9 billion.

Premature Death - frankly, this is a "bogus" cost, as it's based on all deaths called drug-related (even those caused by pharmaceuticals), but mostly because it is an estimate of lifetime earnings lost by those who died. To keep it in perspective would require that this number be prorated to cover the extended number of years the person may have otherwise been alive.

Institutionalization/Hospitalization - these costs are said to be the cost in lost earnings of those in drug treatment programs.

Victim's Productivity - the cost of lost wages by victims of drug-related crime.

Crime victim's property damage - the cost of damage done to the property of the victims of drug-related crime

Social Welfare - even though the ONDCP study makes the claim that those convicted of drug offenses are not eligible to get such aid, they claim it as a cost.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Costs of Drug War

Lost Wages Due to Incarceration - if these people were in jail for drug-law only violations (which represent up to 80% of all drug-related crimes) this money can only be counted as a cost of drug war. Were the drugs legal, these people could still be at their jobs.

Police Services - if the drugs were legal, then the cost of making 1.5 million drug-law arrests annually would disappear. The police services thus "lost" to society could be put to use for actual crimes.

Legal System Costs - ditto

State and Federal Corrections - ditto

Local Corrections - ditto

Federal Drug Budget - well duh!

Private Legal Costs - again, if people weren't being charged with "crimes" involving only drug-law violations, these resources would be available for others.

Crime Careers - like the number for drug abuse related illness, this one is entirely invented.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Discussion:
Of the costs claimed in the ONDCP study, four cost categories account for 63-67% of the total claimed costs of "drug abuse." Those four cost categories are all considered "Lost Productivity" costs:

*Premature Death
*Lost Wages Due to Incarceration
*Drug Abuse Related Illness
*Crime Careers

Premature Death

This "cost" is the potential lifetime earnings of those who died from drug-induced causes. It does not accurately portray the single year "cost" of such deaths. Most drug-induced deaths are caused by using drugs of unknown quality in unknown dosages. Were the drugs legal, it is likely that overdose death rates would be much lower.

Lost Wages Due to Incarceration

If you are in jail, it is quite difficult to make money. This cost could be recovered completely if we weren't jailing people for "drug" crimes.

Drug Abuse Related Illness

An entirely invented cost, the numbers represent the presumed impact caused by the number of people who have used cocaine or marijuana 100 or more times in their lifetimes. This number is included in the ONDCP cost estimates, even though the authors of the study themselves stated "changes in the number of individuals using marijuana and cocaine for more than 100 days may not be closely related to drug abuse related illness.

Crime Careers

This category is supposed to represent the costs of drug dealers and addicts not having regular jobs. If all drugs (instead of just tobacco and alcohol) were regulated the same way, these people would either get regular jobs or continue to commit crimes to maintain their lifestyles. In either case, the cost would not exist if we weren't trying to stop people from using drugs other than alcohol and tobacco.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any way we look at the numbers, it is costing a lot more to fight drug war than drug use is supposedly costing us. As is stands now, every dollar spent trying to stop people from doing things to themselves is a dollar that could have been spent doing something else. Bear in mind too, that were these substances legal, positive cash flow from sales and taxes would result.

Worst of all, labelling people as criminals and punishing them for doing things to themselves is a "cost to society" that our Founders likely never could have imagined we'd bear.

http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/costs/real-costs.htm

The realities about the drugs and those who use them are not the way they are currently being described by those waging this incredibly stupid war. Drug users and the drugs they use actually aren't causing that much harm, either to themselves or to society. Have a look around and see for yourself -- and start raising hell!

http://www.briancbennett.com/

There's a terrorist behind every Bush.

Jade
(soccer mom)
09-21-04 13:52
No 532491
User Picture       tick-tock

I figure this has been posted before but there's a running drug war clock at http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm

There's a terrorist behind every Bush.

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	All 5 posts		Subject: Drug war costs...		Please login to post		Thread doesn't expire		Down


		BlaseDeviant (Hive Bee) 09-20-04 22:37 No 532389				Drug war costs... (Rated as: Wrong Forum)
						I'm curious; if the drug war were to end (all drugs legal, unscheduled/controlled), and all drug offenders to be turned loose (I'm pretty sure they'd stay in there though, even if it were ended sort of like reverse ex post facto... or would they be let loose, damn I should know things like that), what would be the total percentage of tax dollars saved, via abolishment of the DEA, less police time, less prison capacity filled/food bought for prisoners/etc? Anyone have a guess, in dollars or percentage? I know it'd be a fair bit, but a fair bit is a pretty broad description. Of course, some of the savings would be kept and spent in other ways by the government, naturally, but I'm wondering how much of my paycheck is being wasted trying to catch, prosecute, and house/feed in jail the dealer on the corner or joe schmoe buying an eightball off his friend. So differently divine...



		KiZaDm (Hive Addict) 09-20-04 23:18 No 532391				here some idea (Rated as: good read)
						its a little dated but i can assure you things have gotten worse not better... and finally, some cruel irony( in color for your veiwing pleasure): and more recently: Drug Czar's Office Masks True Costs of War on Drugs in Federal Budget 2/21/03 (press release from Drug Policy Alliance) Using new accounting procedures, this year's White House Drug Strategy, released last week, looks different from past years, with little actual change. This year's drug strategy for the first time ever conceals billions of dollars spent on incarcerating drug offenders and certain law enforcement efforts by excluding these categories from the budget, while including inflated expenditures on treatment services. Recent polling by Peter Hart Research Associates shows that nearly two-thirds of Americans want treatment, not incarceration, for nonviolent drug offenders. The 2003 Drug Strategy plays to this public sentiment by appearing as if it's focused on treatment, but in reality it continues the same reliance on law enforcement and interdiction. An analysis of the new budget numbers revealed that by hiding the costs of incarceration, military activities and other known costs of the drug war, the Office of National Drug Control Policy was able to bring their enforcement to treatment ratios more into line with public sentiment. Last year, the Office stated it spent 33% of the drug war budget on drug treatment and prevention activities while 67% went to law enforcement and interdiction. This year, despite making no substantive spending changes, the Office claims to be spending 47% on drug treatment and only 53% on law enforcement activities. In addition, the office appears to inflate its numbers by including alcohol treatment, which by law is specifically excluded from their scope of responsibilities. The White House's 2003 National Drug Control Strategy is deceptive in numerous ways: THE DRUG CZAR DISTORTS THE TRUE COST OF THE FEDERAL DRUG WAR The new 2003 Drug Strategy shows the federal government spending only about $11 billion dollars a year, when the real cost (more accurately reflected in last year's drug strategy) is around $20 billion. ONDCP said it will not count drug war expenditures by many law enforcement agencies, while acknowledging that these agencies will remain focused on drug control efforts. THE DRUG CZAR DISTORTS THE AMOUNT SPENT ON TREATMENT VS. THE AMOUNT SPENT ON LAW ENFORCEMENT * By reducing reported law enforcement costs, eliminating reported prison costs, and artificially boosting reported drug treatment expenditures, ONDCP Director John Walters attempts to make the drug war look more compassionate. Although the actual drug war budget maintains focused on supply reduction (with nearly 70 percent of the budget), the new drug strategy makes the assertion that spending is almost split evenly between supply and demand efforts. This distortion makes the drug war look more humane, and makes it harder for drug treatment and prevention groups to advocate for needed additional funding. THE DRUG CZAR STOPS COUNTING THE COST OF IMPRISONING NONVIOLENT DRUG OFFENDERS ONDCP reduces the official estimate of federal drug war costs by eliminating agencies that mainly focus on the consequences associated with the activities of other primary counter-drug agencies. This means, among other things, not counting the costs of imprisoning federal nonviolent drug offenders at about $3 billion a year. According to the ONDCP, although these [prison costs] are real costs to society, they do not factor into the core of drug law enforcement decisions made by national policymakers. Yet these costs result directly from federal drug war policies. THE DRUG CZAR APPEARS TO OVER-REPORT TREATMENT EXPENDITURES Although ONDCP stops counting many law enforcement expenses, it appears to continue counting many drug treatment and prevention expenses for agencies not actually involved in drug war efforts. It may also fraudulently increase the amount of federal drug treatment expenditures reported to Congress and the public by counting money spent reducing alcohol abuse, even though ONDCP's charter specifically excludes alcohol from its scope of responsibilities. "These changes are especially alarming because they leave Members of Congress and the American public without accurate information about the real costs of the failed war on drugs," said Drug Policy Alliance executive director Ethan Nadelmann. "Computing the drug war budget without incarceration is like computing the Defense budget without soldiers. That's far fetched, even by Washington standards." Visit http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/02_12_03fuzzy.cfm for further information. Ph # 954-287-0023



		ChemoSabe (Hive Addict) 09-21-04 00:03 No 532395				Annual Drug Death
						Great stats Kiza. I actually burst out laughing at the one concerning annual drug deaths. he's either got a lightbulb up his ass or his colon has a brilliant idea



		Jade (soccer mom) 09-21-04 02:48 No 532419				more...
						Shocked? I hope so. If we divide the alledged, assumed, and in some cases flat out invented "costs" of drug use in America, the picture that emerges is a lot different than the one handed to us by the ONDCP study from which all the data presented in this report is taken. First, here's a listing dividing the costs of drug use into two piles: the costs of drug use Health Care Costs Premature Death Institutionalization/Hospitalization Victims Productivity Crime Victims Property Damage Social Welfare the costs of trying to stop drug use Lost Wages Due to Incarceration Police Services Legal System Costs State and Federal Corrections Local Corrections Federal Anti-drug Budget Private Legal Costs Drug Abuse Related Illness Crime Careers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Costs of Drug Use Health Care Costs - 60% of health care costs are accounted for by Community-Based Treatment programs and treating those HIV/AIDS patients claimed as drug-related. In 2000, this total was estimated at approximately $9 billion. Premature Death - frankly, this is a "bogus" cost, as it's based on all deaths called drug-related (even those caused by pharmaceuticals), but mostly because it is an estimate of lifetime earnings lost by those who died. To keep it in perspective would require that this number be prorated to cover the extended number of years the person may have otherwise been alive. Institutionalization/Hospitalization - these costs are said to be the cost in lost earnings of those in drug treatment programs. Victim's Productivity - the cost of lost wages by victims of drug-related crime. Crime victim's property damage - the cost of damage done to the property of the victims of drug-related crime Social Welfare - even though the ONDCP study makes the claim that those convicted of drug offenses are not eligible to get such aid, they claim it as a cost. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Costs of Drug War Lost Wages Due to Incarceration - if these people were in jail for drug-law only violations (which represent up to 80% of all drug-related crimes) this money can only be counted as a cost of drug war. Were the drugs legal, these people could still be at their jobs. Police Services - if the drugs were legal, then the cost of making 1.5 million drug-law arrests annually would disappear. The police services thus "lost" to society could be put to use for actual crimes. Legal System Costs - ditto State and Federal Corrections - ditto Local Corrections - ditto Federal Drug Budget - well duh! Private Legal Costs - again, if people weren't being charged with "crimes" involving only drug-law violations, these resources would be available for others. Crime Careers - like the number for drug abuse related illness, this one is entirely invented. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discussion: Of the costs claimed in the ONDCP study, four cost categories account for 63-67% of the total claimed costs of "drug abuse." Those four cost categories are all considered "Lost Productivity" costs: Premature Death Lost Wages Due to Incarceration Drug Abuse Related Illness Crime Careers Premature Death This "cost" is the potential lifetime earnings of those who died from drug-induced causes. It does not accurately portray the single year "cost" of such deaths. Most drug-induced deaths are caused by using drugs of unknown quality in unknown dosages. Were the drugs legal, it is likely that overdose death rates would be much lower. Lost Wages Due to Incarceration If you are in jail, it is quite difficult to make money. This cost could be recovered completely if we weren't jailing people for "drug" crimes. Drug Abuse Related Illness An entirely invented cost, the numbers represent the presumed impact caused by the number of people who have used cocaine or marijuana 100 or more times in their lifetimes. This number is included in the ONDCP cost estimates, even though the authors of the study themselves stated "changes in the number of individuals using marijuana and cocaine for more than 100 days may not be closely related to drug abuse related illness. Crime Careers This category is supposed to represent the costs of drug dealers and addicts not having regular jobs. If all drugs (instead of just tobacco and alcohol) were regulated the same way, these people would either get regular jobs or continue to commit crimes to maintain their lifestyles. In either case, the cost would not exist if we weren't trying to stop people from using drugs other than alcohol and tobacco. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any way we look at the numbers, it is costing a lot more to fight drug war than drug use is supposedly costing us. As is stands now, every dollar spent trying to stop people from doing things to themselves is a dollar that could have been spent doing something else. Bear in mind too, that were these substances legal, positive cash flow from sales and taxes would result. Worst of all, labelling people as criminals and punishing them for doing things to themselves is a "cost to society" that our Founders likely never could have imagined we'd bear. http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/costs/real-costs.htm The realities about the drugs and those who use them are not the way they are currently being described by those waging this incredibly stupid war. Drug users and the drugs they use actually aren't causing that much harm, either to themselves or to society. Have a look around and see for yourself -- and start raising hell! http://www.briancbennett.com/ There's a terrorist behind every Bush.



		Jade (soccer mom) 09-21-04 13:52 No 532491				tick-tock
						I figure this has been posted before but there's a running drug war clock at http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm There's a terrorist behind every Bush.

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