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All 6 posts Subject: Walters gives in a little? Please login to post Down

Jade
(soccer mom)
09-26-04 16:31
No 533258
User Picture       Walters gives in a little?

U.S. neither for nor against plan to fine for pot possession

September 23, 2004

BY FRANK MAIN

The nation's drug czar said Wednesday that a plan being considered by Mayor Daley to fine -- rather than arrest -- people possessing small amounts of marijuana could help control the use of a drug he sees as being more potent than many people realize.

It's clear from the high dismissal rate of marijuana-possession cases in Chicago that authorities are not treating pot as seriously as they should, said John Walters, the White House's top drug-fighting official.

His remarks came in an interview a day after Daley embraced a Chicago Police sergeant's plan to impose fines on pot smokers ranging from $250 for up to 10 grams to $1,000 for 20 to 30 grams.

Sgt. Thomas Donegan, fed up with seeing pot arrests evaporate in court, presented top police brass with a report last week showing that 6,954 cases -- 94 percent of those involving less than 2.5 grams of pot -- were dismissed in 2003.

Donegan suggested that fines for possession of less than 30 grams of pot -- a misdemeanor -- could have raised $5 million last year.

A hearing would still be held for people fined for having pot, but the standard of proof would be lower than in a misdemeanor case, and the ticket would not go on their criminal record, making it likely that they would pay instead of fighting it, Donegan said. Police could still make arrests on a state misdemeanor drug charge, if, for example, the suspect were a repeat drug offender.

Walters did not object to the concept of imposing fines on people caught with small amounts of pot. But he would not express outright support for the idea, either.

Instead, he said fines could be a "tool" for reducing pot consumption, along with opening up more drug courts and requiring pot smokers to attend classes to learn about the dangers of the drug.

Walters, however, did not echo fears by some in law enforcement that imposing fines for pot would show that the city is not serious about pot consumption.

"Some people will read that fines downgrade our concern about the issue," he said. "I don't read that."

He stressed that the goal of enforcing laws on marijuana possession should not be locking up the offenders, but educating them that pot has become more potent in the last 10 years and that more users are winding up in hospitals.

Walters said 4,588 people visited emergency rooms in the Chicago area in 2002 because of pot-related problems and 4,800 people were admitted to substance-abuse programs in 2001 for marijuana treatment.

Scientific improvements in the cultivation of marijuana have increased the content of the active ingredient -- THC -- from about 1 percent to 2 percent of the total weight to an average of 9 percent, Walters said.

"I certainly agree with the frustration reflected in the comments by the mayor and law enforcement in Chicago," Walters said.

"There is an unwillingness now in most jurisdictions to take seriously enough the problem of marijuana trafficking and consumption."
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-pot23.html

Even though the fines are too high and he's still full of shit, it's a START in the right direction, huh?

There's a terrorist behind every Bush.

paranoid
(Quick-witted Quibbler)
09-26-04 17:58
No 533264
User Picture       "Walters said 4,588 people visited ...

"Walters said 4,588 people visited emergency rooms in the Chicago area in 2002 because of pot-related problems and 4,800 people were admitted to substance-abuse programs in 2001 for marijuana treatment."

WTF is marijuana treatment for pot related problems exactly? Providing milk and brownies to those with bare cupboards?

My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).

geezmeister
(Of Counsel)
09-27-04 04:46
No 533347
      City ordinance violation

While Oklahoma has demonstrated a single minded devotion to enacting insanely punitive drug penalties and to making it difficult for the small home cook to get pseudo to react to make meth, it did show some common sense about marijuana in 1978. That year the legislature made possession of marijuana a misdemeanor carrying up to one year in the county jail and a fine of up to $1,000. Second and subsequent marijuana possession offenses are felonies.

Under Oklahoma law, a charter city can prohibit by ordinance any activity that is a misdemeanor at state law; it may not punish conduct that would be a felony at state law as a city ordinace violation.

When the possession of marijuana became a misdemeanor, the City of Norman, home of the University of Oklahoma, adopted the state's first municipal ordinance prohibiting the possession of marijuana. The penalty was a fine of up to one hundred dollars.

Many students of the day saw this as a major victory, only to quickly realize that police would now actually charge a student with the city code violation rather than just dump the pot out and send the student on his way, which had been the standard procedure employed by Norman police prior to that time. Students found in possession of pot now had to go to court, their arrest and conviction was a matter of public record, and they had to actually come up with money for the fine. As it turned out, the city ordinance actually put teeth in the marijuana prohibition laws.

mostly harmless

Ascension
(Hive Bee)
09-27-04 12:02
No 533377
User Picture       Instead, he said fines could be a "tool

Instead, he said fines could be a "tool" for reducing pot consumption, along with opening up more drug courts and requiring pot smokers to attend classes to learn about the dangers of the drug.

I wonder who their gonna get to teach the classes?
Because surly... anyone who has enough knowledge about marijuana to be able to teach about it cant condone the usage of it, can they?
Wait this is the government were talking about, they'll find someone.

Your an individual just like everyone else.

paranoid
(Quick-witted Quibbler)
09-28-04 01:58
No 533495
User Picture       "Many students of the day saw this as a...

"Many students of the day saw this as a major victory, only to quickly realize that police would now actually charge a student with the city code violation rather than just dump the pot out and send the student on his way, which had been the standard procedure employed by Norman police prior to that time. "

A large concern I have about the bill here in Canada regarding the decriminalisation of under 15 g of MJ. Most often here if you're polite and quiet, they'll generally just confiscate it and let you go (I'll bet a lot of pot goes missing that way here...). However when (if) the bill passes, you will be more likely to be given the fine associated with the offense (roughly $300 I think). But, it does not result in a permanent criminal record though, so that's not too bad. Multiple offenses might though, I'm not sure.

Pot was actually legal in Ontario for a while last year. The provincial court had thrown out a case regarding MJ possession that essentially made it legal to possess under 28 grams. People were lighting up in certain public coffeshops, and police could do nothing about it. Not that it changed things much - I didn't find people smoking pot any more frequently than normal.

Recently, a club opened up in Quebec that very publically pronounced it's allowance of patrons to smoke up. Police arrested a few "token" (hahaha) smokers within hours, but released them without charges the following day. To my knowledge, the club still operates as intended.

Several coffee shops in Vancouver openly allow the smoking of pot, and rarely have problems. Being caught smoking in public is akin to being caught littering - a stiff warning at best. I've never met so many people trying to sell me pot on the street as I have in Vancouver.

My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).

M3Psych
(Hive Bee)
09-28-04 22:43
No 533650
      In California, simple possession (H&S 11357)...

In California, simple possession (H&S 11357) of less than 28.5g of marijuana is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $100. The record of the conviction is automatically sealed and expunged after 3 years.

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	All 6 posts		Subject: Walters gives in a little?		Please login to post		Down


		Jade (soccer mom) 09-26-04 16:31 No 533258				Walters gives in a little?
						U.S. neither for nor against plan to fine for pot possession September 23, 2004 BY FRANK MAIN The nation's drug czar said Wednesday that a plan being considered by Mayor Daley to fine -- rather than arrest -- people possessing small amounts of marijuana could help control the use of a drug he sees as being more potent than many people realize. It's clear from the high dismissal rate of marijuana-possession cases in Chicago that authorities are not treating pot as seriously as they should, said John Walters, the White House's top drug-fighting official. His remarks came in an interview a day after Daley embraced a Chicago Police sergeant's plan to impose fines on pot smokers ranging from $250 for up to 10 grams to $1,000 for 20 to 30 grams. Sgt. Thomas Donegan, fed up with seeing pot arrests evaporate in court, presented top police brass with a report last week showing that 6,954 cases -- 94 percent of those involving less than 2.5 grams of pot -- were dismissed in 2003. Donegan suggested that fines for possession of less than 30 grams of pot -- a misdemeanor -- could have raised $5 million last year. A hearing would still be held for people fined for having pot, but the standard of proof would be lower than in a misdemeanor case, and the ticket would not go on their criminal record, making it likely that they would pay instead of fighting it, Donegan said. Police could still make arrests on a state misdemeanor drug charge, if, for example, the suspect were a repeat drug offender. Walters did not object to the concept of imposing fines on people caught with small amounts of pot. But he would not express outright support for the idea, either. Instead, he said fines could be a "tool" for reducing pot consumption, along with opening up more drug courts and requiring pot smokers to attend classes to learn about the dangers of the drug. Walters, however, did not echo fears by some in law enforcement that imposing fines for pot would show that the city is not serious about pot consumption. "Some people will read that fines downgrade our concern about the issue," he said. "I don't read that." He stressed that the goal of enforcing laws on marijuana possession should not be locking up the offenders, but educating them that pot has become more potent in the last 10 years and that more users are winding up in hospitals. Walters said 4,588 people visited emergency rooms in the Chicago area in 2002 because of pot-related problems and 4,800 people were admitted to substance-abuse programs in 2001 for marijuana treatment. Scientific improvements in the cultivation of marijuana have increased the content of the active ingredient -- THC -- from about 1 percent to 2 percent of the total weight to an average of 9 percent, Walters said. "I certainly agree with the frustration reflected in the comments by the mayor and law enforcement in Chicago," Walters said. "There is an unwillingness now in most jurisdictions to take seriously enough the problem of marijuana trafficking and consumption." http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-pot23.html Even though the fines are too high and he's still full of shit, it's a START in the right direction, huh? There's a terrorist behind every Bush.



		paranoid (Quick-witted Quibbler) 09-26-04 17:58 No 533264				"Walters said 4,588 people visited ...
						"Walters said 4,588 people visited emergency rooms in the Chicago area in 2002 because of pot-related problems and 4,800 people were admitted to substance-abuse programs in 2001 for marijuana treatment." WTF is marijuana treatment for pot related problems exactly? Providing milk and brownies to those with bare cupboards? My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).



		geezmeister (Of Counsel) 09-27-04 04:46 No 533347				City ordinance violation
						While Oklahoma has demonstrated a single minded devotion to enacting insanely punitive drug penalties and to making it difficult for the small home cook to get pseudo to react to make meth, it did show some common sense about marijuana in 1978. That year the legislature made possession of marijuana a misdemeanor carrying up to one year in the county jail and a fine of up to $1,000. Second and subsequent marijuana possession offenses are felonies. Under Oklahoma law, a charter city can prohibit by ordinance any activity that is a misdemeanor at state law; it may not punish conduct that would be a felony at state law as a city ordinace violation. When the possession of marijuana became a misdemeanor, the City of Norman, home of the University of Oklahoma, adopted the state's first municipal ordinance prohibiting the possession of marijuana. The penalty was a fine of up to one hundred dollars. Many students of the day saw this as a major victory, only to quickly realize that police would now actually charge a student with the city code violation rather than just dump the pot out and send the student on his way, which had been the standard procedure employed by Norman police prior to that time. Students found in possession of pot now had to go to court, their arrest and conviction was a matter of public record, and they had to actually come up with money for the fine. As it turned out, the city ordinance actually put teeth in the marijuana prohibition laws. mostly harmless



		Ascension (Hive Bee) 09-27-04 12:02 No 533377				Instead, he said fines could be a "tool
						Instead, he said fines could be a "tool" for reducing pot consumption, along with opening up more drug courts and requiring pot smokers to attend classes to learn about the dangers of the drug. I wonder who their gonna get to teach the classes? Because surly... anyone who has enough knowledge about marijuana to be able to teach about it cant condone the usage of it, can they? Wait this is the government were talking about, they'll find someone. Your an individual just like everyone else.



		paranoid (Quick-witted Quibbler) 09-28-04 01:58 No 533495				"Many students of the day saw this as a...
						"Many students of the day saw this as a major victory, only to quickly realize that police would now actually charge a student with the city code violation rather than just dump the pot out and send the student on his way, which had been the standard procedure employed by Norman police prior to that time. " A large concern I have about the bill here in Canada regarding the decriminalisation of under 15 g of MJ. Most often here if you're polite and quiet, they'll generally just confiscate it and let you go (I'll bet a lot of pot goes missing that way here...). However when (if) the bill passes, you will be more likely to be given the fine associated with the offense (roughly $300 I think). But, it does not result in a permanent criminal record though, so that's not too bad. Multiple offenses might though, I'm not sure. Pot was actually legal in Ontario for a while last year. The provincial court had thrown out a case regarding MJ possession that essentially made it legal to possess under 28 grams. People were lighting up in certain public coffeshops, and police could do nothing about it. Not that it changed things much - I didn't find people smoking pot any more frequently than normal. Recently, a club opened up in Quebec that very publically pronounced it's allowance of patrons to smoke up. Police arrested a few "token" (hahaha) smokers within hours, but released them without charges the following day. To my knowledge, the club still operates as intended. Several coffee shops in Vancouver openly allow the smoking of pot, and rarely have problems. Being caught smoking in public is akin to being caught littering - a stiff warning at best. I've never met so many people trying to sell me pot on the street as I have in Vancouver. My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).



		M3Psych (Hive Bee) 09-28-04 22:43 No 533650				In California, simple possession (H&S 11357)...
						In California, simple possession (H&S 11357) of less than 28.5g of marijuana is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $100. The record of the conviction is automatically sealed and expunged after 3 years.

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