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All 11 posts Subject: Novel routes to DOM precursors? Please login to post Down

phenethyl_man
(Newbee)
10-06-04 01:01
No 534606
      Novel routes to DOM precursors?

DOM is a material which is quite valuble to me, but it is somewhat discouraging that the only reaction schemes to this stuff originate with toluhydroquinone. The question I raise here is this one; is it possible to introduce the methyl group onto 1,4-dimethoxybenzene or 2,5-dimethoxybenzaldehyde through Friedel-crafts alkylation, or less preferably through a Grignard reaction? A quick search brought up plenty of examples using AlCl3 & esters to alkylate benzene in high yield.

In J. Am. Chem. Soc., Vol. 106, No.18, 1984 anisole is methylated using alcohols (methanol being of interest in this case) giving a 50/50 mixture of para and ortho isomers. The catalyst in this case is hexafluorophosphoric acid, but concentrated sulfuric acid is known to catalyse these types of reactions just as well through the formation the sulfonium salt of the alcohol.

Esters and alkyl halides can also be used in this type of reaction as well. Dimethyl sulfate and AlCl3 have been shown to alkylate benzene in 59.8% yield.

Would Friedel-Crafts alkylation of 1,4-dimethoxybenzene using alkyl esters, halides, or alcohols not bring about ortho-substitution resulting in high yields of the much desired 2,5-dimethoxytoluene, or 4-methyl-2,5-dimethoxybenzaldehyde?

Surely a Grignard reaction of 2,5-dimethoxyphenylmagnesium halide with dimethyl sulfate would lead to 2,5-dimethoxytoluene, no? Are there any ways to introduce a methyl group through diazonium salts?

- phenethylman -

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
10-06-04 03:25
No 534626
User Picture       Toluhydroquinone

2,5-Dimethoxybenzaldehyde is easily reduced to 2,5-Dimethoxytoluene with Zn/HCl (Clemmensen reduction), but that is a rather wasteful in my opinion - better look at https://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/toluhydroquinone.html - Using the procedures found therein you can easily convert o-Toluidine or p-Nitrotoluene to Toluhydroquinone, only a methylation away from 2,5-Dimethoxytoluene.

^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}

phenethyl_man
(Newbee)
10-06-04 05:16
No 534635
      Yeah, I know I could reduce the benzaldehyde...

Yeah, I know I could reduce the benzaldehyde but then I have to reformylate etc, and as you know I would rather just use this for other materials.

I tried that reduction of p-nitrotoluene with aluminum. Yields are low and my residence got fumigated with toxic fumes so that route was abandoned. The patent is very vague, do you know the reaction mechanism here? I have a feeling it releases some not so friendly gases; at least with the aluminum foil I used. The o-toluidine route seems like too much work; at least from toluene. Nitration of toluene will give a mixture of ortho/para-nitrotoluene which would then have to be reduced, then subjected to those two reactions to finally arrive at toluhydroquinone (which I can just purchase anyway).

Basically, I have a bunch of hydroquinone and p-dimethoxybenzene lying around and want some 2,5-dimethoxytoluene. smile

Formylation, reduction, and reformylation seems quite tedious.

I just don't see why Friedel-Crafts alkylation won't work. And I don't understand why Shulgin uses a low-yielding acylation followed by reduction (PiHKAL: DOET, DOPR) to arrive at his alkylbenzenes when this seems feasible for a high yield of any alkylbenzene in just one rxn.

- phenethylman -

Saddam_Hussein
(Hive Bee)
10-06-04 06:04
No 534643
User Picture       2-Hydroxy-5-methoxybenzaldehyde

It is also possible to reduce the -CHO of 2-hydroxy-5-methoxybenzaldehyde, a rather OTC substance (if you want). You can (m)ethylate and have a nice DOM precursor as well smile . I used to have a procedure involving ethyl chloroformate doing the trick, but my pile of junk is rather immense.

President of the Iraqi Chemical Weapons of Mass Destruction Development Society

hest
(Hive Adickt)
10-06-04 07:35
No 534648
      Acetylation/alkylation

Acetylation yeald a deactivated product, alkylatein an activated one. So the risk for more than one acetylation on the rin is low. The risk for more than one alkylation on the ring is high.
The Lewis accid used in the alkylation might cleawe the methoxyethers.
PErsonal I prefere bromination and the BuLi and RBr

phenethyl_man
(Newbee)
10-06-04 22:37
No 534746
      Re: The Lewis accid used in the alkylation...

The Lewis accid used in the alkylation might cleawe the methoxyethers.

the Friedel-Crafts alkylation w/alcohols doesn't require a lewis acid.. I doubt AlCl3 would cleave the ethers anyhow as long as the solvent is right, otherwise bees wouldn't be having so many problems cleaving eugenol/vanillin's methoxy groups.

PErsonal I prefere bromination and the BuLi and RBr

you must like performing reactions at -70degC under an inert atmosphere and anhydrous conditions, eh? not to mention the hassle obtaining butyllithium.

Saddam_Hussein - excuse my ignorance, but by what means is this aldehyde "OTC"?

- phenethylman -

Captain_America
(Über-Führer die Ironie)
10-06-04 22:50
No 534748
      Indirect Over-The-Counterness

Saddam_Hussein - excuse my ignorance, but by what means is this aldehyde "OTC"?

It meens you can make it from OTC chemicals;

Post 530676 (Captain_America: "OTC 2C-H", Methods Discourse)

demorol
(Hive Bee)
10-07-04 12:27
No 534817
      You might want to read this post Post 530920 .

You might want to read this: Post 530920 (Nicodem: "The best spices for DOM", Methods Discourse). Nicodem had quite an idea for OTC DOM synthesis.

phenethyl_man
(Hive Bee)
10-09-04 16:31
No 535045
      well.. SWIM gave in and just ordered some more

well.. SWIM gave in and just ordered some more THQ anyhow, but here's a few more ideas for those interested:

starting from phenol:

ortho-methylate phenol with formaldehyde and base as described in Patent US2401608 to obtain o-cresol; briefly discussed in this Post 505367 (psyloxy: "H2O2 o-cresol to 2,5-dihydroxytoluene, 98%", Methods Discourse)

Patent IE904369 describes the preparation of toluhydroquinone from o-cresol. o-cresol is acetylated (the patent states that even plain old acetic acid will work, though the examples only use acetyl chloride) to 4'-hydroxy-3'-methyl-acetophenone catalysed by HF. The acetophenone is then oxidised to toluhydroquinone via alkaline H2O2.

I'm not familiar with the manipulation of acetophenone's to obtain phenylisopropylamines, but perhaps it would be a good idea to try methylating this, the target compound then being 4-methoxy-3-methylamphetamine. Note this is like an iso-MMA, the substituents being reversed. The combination of an alkyl (C1-C3) or halogen in the 3 or 4 positions, combined with at least one methoxyl group somewhere else on the ring seems to almost always lead to activity, probably a little lower than MMA in potency I would guess?

Back to STP; I'm somewhat confused here. Wouldn't a simple oxidation of o-cresol with alkaline persulfate (elbs rxn) directly give toluhydroquinone.. or would the methyl group get oxidised?

I'm also wondering if that ortho-alkylation of phenols could be applied directly to hydroquinone to get toluhydroquinone, and if paraformaldehyde could be used in this process or if depolymerization or the use of formalin as in the patent would be necessary..

any thoughts?

- phenethylman -

psyloxy
(Hive Addict)
10-22-04 14:58
No 537160
User Picture       Re: DOM precursors

Finally people start talking about my favorite topic, great ! laugh

Post 505784 (psyloxy: "K2S2O8 oxidation of o/m-cresol to toluhydrochinone", Methods Discourse)

I'm also wondering if that ortho-alkylation of phenols could be applied directly to hydroquinone to get toluhydroquinone, and if paraformaldehyde could be used in this process or if depolymerization or the use of formalin as in the patent would be necessary..

My thought here: rather use p-MeO-phenol than hydrochinone.

--psyloxy--

phenethyl_man
(Hive Bee)
10-24-04 22:33
No 537535
      quite a coincidence, DOM is your favorite...

quite a coincidence, DOM is your favorite topic as well? well, I guess I am no longer interested in this route cause I cheated and purchased a shitload of THQ.. I realized it is too inexpensive to justify this effort; from toluene would be nice thou, just for the satisfaction of accomplishing such a synth from OTC starting material..

- phenethylman -

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	All 11 posts		Subject: Novel routes to DOM precursors?		Please login to post		Down


		phenethyl_man (Newbee) 10-06-04 01:01 No 534606				Novel routes to DOM precursors?
						DOM is a material which is quite valuble to me, but it is somewhat discouraging that the only reaction schemes to this stuff originate with toluhydroquinone. The question I raise here is this one; is it possible to introduce the methyl group onto 1,4-dimethoxybenzene or 2,5-dimethoxybenzaldehyde through Friedel-crafts alkylation, or less preferably through a Grignard reaction? A quick search brought up plenty of examples using AlCl3 & esters to alkylate benzene in high yield. In J. Am. Chem. Soc., Vol. 106, No.18, 1984 anisole is methylated using alcohols (methanol being of interest in this case) giving a 50/50 mixture of para and ortho isomers. The catalyst in this case is hexafluorophosphoric acid, but concentrated sulfuric acid is known to catalyse these types of reactions just as well through the formation the sulfonium salt of the alcohol. Esters and alkyl halides can also be used in this type of reaction as well. Dimethyl sulfate and AlCl3 have been shown to alkylate benzene in 59.8% yield. Would Friedel-Crafts alkylation of 1,4-dimethoxybenzene using alkyl esters, halides, or alcohols not bring about ortho-substitution resulting in high yields of the much desired 2,5-dimethoxytoluene, or 4-methyl-2,5-dimethoxybenzaldehyde? Surely a Grignard reaction of 2,5-dimethoxyphenylmagnesium halide with dimethyl sulfate would lead to 2,5-dimethoxytoluene, no? Are there any ways to introduce a methyl group through diazonium salts? - phenethylman -



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 10-06-04 03:25 No 534626				Toluhydroquinone
						2,5-Dimethoxybenzaldehyde is easily reduced to 2,5-Dimethoxytoluene with Zn/HCl (Clemmensen reduction), but that is a rather wasteful in my opinion - better look at https://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/toluhydroquinone.html - Using the procedures found therein you can easily convert o-Toluidine or p-Nitrotoluene to Toluhydroquinone, only a methylation away from 2,5-Dimethoxytoluene. ^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}



		phenethyl_man (Newbee) 10-06-04 05:16 No 534635				Yeah, I know I could reduce the benzaldehyde...
						Yeah, I know I could reduce the benzaldehyde but then I have to reformylate etc, and as you know I would rather just use this for other materials. I tried that reduction of p-nitrotoluene with aluminum. Yields are low and my residence got fumigated with toxic fumes so that route was abandoned. The patent is very vague, do you know the reaction mechanism here? I have a feeling it releases some not so friendly gases; at least with the aluminum foil I used. The o-toluidine route seems like too much work; at least from toluene. Nitration of toluene will give a mixture of ortho/para-nitrotoluene which would then have to be reduced, then subjected to those two reactions to finally arrive at toluhydroquinone (which I can just purchase anyway). Basically, I have a bunch of hydroquinone and p-dimethoxybenzene lying around and want some 2,5-dimethoxytoluene. Formylation, reduction, and reformylation seems quite tedious. I just don't see why Friedel-Crafts alkylation won't work. And I don't understand why Shulgin uses a low-yielding acylation followed by reduction (PiHKAL: DOET, DOPR) to arrive at his alkylbenzenes when this seems feasible for a high yield of any alkylbenzene in just one rxn. - phenethylman -



		Saddam_Hussein (Hive Bee) 10-06-04 06:04 No 534643				2-Hydroxy-5-methoxybenzaldehyde
						It is also possible to reduce the -CHO of 2-hydroxy-5-methoxybenzaldehyde, a rather OTC substance (if you want). You can (m)ethylate and have a nice DOM precursor as well . I used to have a procedure involving ethyl chloroformate doing the trick, but my pile of junk is rather immense. President of the Iraqi Chemical Weapons of Mass Destruction Development Society



		hest (Hive Adickt) 10-06-04 07:35 No 534648				Acetylation/alkylation
						Acetylation yeald a deactivated product, alkylatein an activated one. So the risk for more than one acetylation on the rin is low. The risk for more than one alkylation on the ring is high. The Lewis accid used in the alkylation might cleawe the methoxyethers. PErsonal I prefere bromination and the BuLi and RBr



		phenethyl_man (Newbee) 10-06-04 22:37 No 534746				Re: The Lewis accid used in the alkylation...
						The Lewis accid used in the alkylation might cleawe the methoxyethers. the Friedel-Crafts alkylation w/alcohols doesn't require a lewis acid.. I doubt AlCl3 would cleave the ethers anyhow as long as the solvent is right, otherwise bees wouldn't be having so many problems cleaving eugenol/vanillin's methoxy groups. PErsonal I prefere bromination and the BuLi and RBr you must like performing reactions at -70degC under an inert atmosphere and anhydrous conditions, eh? not to mention the hassle obtaining butyllithium. Saddam_Hussein - excuse my ignorance, but by what means is this aldehyde "OTC"? - phenethylman -



		Captain_America (Über-Führer die Ironie) 10-06-04 22:50 No 534748				Indirect Over-The-Counterness
						Saddam_Hussein - excuse my ignorance, but by what means is this aldehyde "OTC"? It meens you can make it from OTC chemicals; Post 530676 (Captain_America: "OTC 2C-H", Methods Discourse)



		demorol (Hive Bee) 10-07-04 12:27 No 534817				You might want to read this post Post 530920 .
						You might want to read this: Post 530920 (Nicodem: "The best spices for DOM", Methods Discourse). Nicodem had quite an idea for OTC DOM synthesis.



		phenethyl_man (Hive Bee) 10-09-04 16:31 No 535045				well.. SWIM gave in and just ordered some more
						well.. SWIM gave in and just ordered some more THQ anyhow, but here's a few more ideas for those interested: starting from phenol: ortho-methylate phenol with formaldehyde and base as described in Patent US2401608 to obtain o-cresol; briefly discussed in this Post 505367 (psyloxy: "H2O2 o-cresol to 2,5-dihydroxytoluene, 98%", Methods Discourse) Patent IE904369 describes the preparation of toluhydroquinone from o-cresol. o-cresol is acetylated (the patent states that even plain old acetic acid will work, though the examples only use acetyl chloride) to 4'-hydroxy-3'-methyl-acetophenone catalysed by HF. The acetophenone is then oxidised to toluhydroquinone via alkaline H2O2. I'm not familiar with the manipulation of acetophenone's to obtain phenylisopropylamines, but perhaps it would be a good idea to try methylating this, the target compound then being 4-methoxy-3-methylamphetamine. Note this is like an iso-MMA, the substituents being reversed. The combination of an alkyl (C1-C3) or halogen in the 3 or 4 positions, combined with at least one methoxyl group somewhere else on the ring seems to almost always lead to activity, probably a little lower than MMA in potency I would guess? Back to STP; I'm somewhat confused here. Wouldn't a simple oxidation of o-cresol with alkaline persulfate (elbs rxn) directly give toluhydroquinone.. or would the methyl group get oxidised? I'm also wondering if that ortho-alkylation of phenols could be applied directly to hydroquinone to get toluhydroquinone, and if paraformaldehyde could be used in this process or if depolymerization or the use of formalin as in the patent would be necessary.. any thoughts? - phenethylman -



		psyloxy (Hive Addict) 10-22-04 14:58 No 537160				Re: DOM precursors
						Finally people start talking about my favorite topic, great ! Post 505784 (psyloxy: "K2S2O8 oxidation of o/m-cresol to toluhydrochinone", Methods Discourse) I'm also wondering if that ortho-alkylation of phenols could be applied directly to hydroquinone to get toluhydroquinone, and if paraformaldehyde could be used in this process or if depolymerization or the use of formalin as in the patent would be necessary.. My thought here: rather use p-MeO-phenol than hydrochinone. --psyloxy--



		phenethyl_man (Hive Bee) 10-24-04 22:33 No 537535				quite a coincidence, DOM is your favorite...
						quite a coincidence, DOM is your favorite topic as well? well, I guess I am no longer interested in this route cause I cheated and purchased a shitload of THQ.. I realized it is too inexpensive to justify this effort; from toluene would be nice thou, just for the satisfaction of accomplishing such a synth from OTC starting material.. - phenethylman -

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