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All 10 posts Subject: Protecting our children? Please login to post Down

Jade
(soccer mom)
10-11-04 05:11
No 535295
User Picture       Protecting our children?

Seems like the news is reporting more and more on this "zero tolerance" crap and how it is being carried out in our schools. Of course, since I have a daughter still in school, her dad in prison and a secret that could be even more damaging should it be revealed, my opinion could be a little biased. The fact that I do not like LE and the laws they enforce is pretty much common knowledge around here.

However, IMO, the author of the following article tells a lot of truth about what is going to happen to our kids if this continues.

"Educating Jailbirds"
By James Post

In the history of America, nothing has been more destructive to the nation than our own War On Drugs, which has caused more damage to citizens, to our legal rights, our business practices, our communities, our foreign policy, and to the trust between citizens and the state, many times more damage than all the drugs this persecution is intended to prohibit. Even so, perhaps the most destructive effects are yet to be seen, the results of anti-drug measures in the public school.

Many government agencies have been made tools of DEA, since regulation and policy may be written at will, and need not fulfill the requirements of becoming duly-passed laws -- yet may be fully enforced. These agencies include the INS, IRS, FAA, FDA, ATF, FCC, CIA, DOL, DOT, ETC... all given roles and powers which exist only to enable greater surveillance and control of us all for drug interdiction, whatever the agency's nominal field of authority. Nothing more quickly arouses the willingness of the fearful sheep to surrender their power and rights to the sheepdogs than the cry to "protect the innocent children." Their media-stimulated fear of the dangers of the world (and their ecclesiastogenic revulsion for the "immoral") has enabled the drug fascists to impose practices in the schools which would be considered Stalinesque if declared as political policy, but which are accepted as anti-drug security measures. Our public schools are operated in the manner of penal institutions. School safety program designers are trained in police science. High school students are locked in, subject to restrictions enforced by uniformed armed guards. Though use of "obscene language" to an officer is a statutory crime, campus police exercise force to impose obedience. To ensure each suspicious student is free of drugs and weapons, they may sieze, arrest, and intimately search any dirty-mouth perp who speaks ill to authority. Though parent conference is mandatory, the system of campus discipline is not negotiable, but is a summary prosecution, to which the parent has only the principal to appeal. Administration finds it expedient for order's sake to look the other way, or to participate enthusiastically in running a clean, safe, moral, and well-disciplined school.

Whether this policy is "right" or not, there are inescapable consequences of raising our children in a prison-like environment. If they are treated like prisoners - even for their own good - they will learn to think like prisoners, and to see themselves as prisoners. Since many are more sophisticated in real life than the schools' behavioral policies let them acknowledge on campus, they recognize the state is imposing restrictive illusions upon them. They might conclude the freedom of reality lies in escaping state oppression, and opposing those who support it. Raising kids in jail produces three kinds of adults: guards, inmates, and outlaws. Then we wonder why the ones that blow up the place are the smart ones from good homes... Public school is a mandatory term of incarceration in a state institution, under armed guard and physical duress. While being presented technical information and historical indoctrination, students are subject to behavioral regimentation to enforce the primary datum of the syllabus: belief in the rightness of and obedience to the authority of the state. Those who do not easily submit may be placed on mood-altering medication, and to refuse that is a crime. When practiced by other governments, placing the youth in mandatory behavior conditioning camps and using force, drugs, and propaganda to get them to obey The Leader is commonly called brainwashing.

Can the school system be fixed? No. Its problems are fundamental. The drugwar use of penal security in schools is only one of its fatal flaws. Another is federal requirements based on demographic academic statistics. Funding statistics have become the primary concern of administrators, which has led to breakdown of standards of academic excellence. Affirmative-action labor policies have further made the academic part of the education experience meaningless to the working-class student. Where authoritarian moralists predominate, schools obligate students to posture in obedience to puritanical dress, language, and behavior codes far different from their real lives, further alienating them. Is the system therefore going to collapse? Not soon. Why, if someday we just dispense with The Constitution altogether, and elevate some four-star Drug Czar to the White House with the authority to get the job done, the system evolving in public education today might be the salvation of those young enough to still have innocence to protect. And for those malcontents who just couldn't take the yoke? Well, school is after all an introduction to the penal system. "We've got just the place you're trained to be, Boy. Wh'say we start you off with three to five for that bag of dope?"

There's a terrorist behind every Bush.

Stonium
(BEE-OTCH)
10-11-04 12:33
No 535339
User Picture       A public school education isn't mandatory

Public school is a mandatory term of incarceration in a state institution, under armed guard and physical duress.
The public school system isn't likely to change anytime soon, therefore if you feel strongly about this, perhaps you should seriously LOOK at some other options. Like giving your child(ren) a home (preferably) or private school education.

_{Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.
-Howard Zinn}

embezzler
(Hive Addict)
10-11-04 16:12
No 535359
User Picture       private education

STONI---Private education is beyond the reach of anyone on the average industrial wage where swim is from, unless they want to sacrifice food and clothes.

JADE---however the government run schools here must be nothing like america if that article is any thing to go by, there are no guards armed, uniformed or otherwise.
The idea of drug searches is laughable, when swim was in school a simple "fuck off" would have ended the matter of searching students.Hell I never saw anyone get a locker searched.

There are no metal detectors because there are no weapons to detect.

None of this is to say that there were no drugs at the school or that it was for privilaged kids, the students came from all over and drugs were experimented with, bought and sold.No-one cared.The teachers got paid if everyone failed or if everyone passed, it didnt matter. Few failed.The school didnt seem to suffer as a result of what seems lax regulation enforcement.

There didnt seem to be any real willingness to comply with any governing bodies on behalf of the school authorities.

The police were only called once and this was when some bikes were stolen.I think we got a 30 min speech on drugs the whole time i was there.

How come america seems to have such a problem in schools?

chemically enhanced.

Jade
(soccer mom)
10-11-04 16:18
No 535361
User Picture       I have

I live in a rural area and our school district is rather small. It has effected other schools in the area but we haven't quite encountered the full extent of it....yet. Also, since the "town" I live in consists of 1 post office, 1 general store, 1 public school and 25 churches, it shouldn't come as any surprise to you that the 2 private schools are both run by churches. As far as home schooling goes, I have to work for a living. I'm not sure that I would be that great at teaching anyway. I don't have the patience for it. crazy

There's a terrorist behind every Bush.

embezzler
(Hive Addict)
10-11-04 16:41
No 535364
User Picture       how did it get to a situation where

how did it get to a situation where there are armed guards at schools was this a gradual thing or did it happen as an emergency measure and was simply continued?

chemically enhanced.

hypo
(Balanced Ego)
10-11-04 16:56
No 535366
      i say send 'em here!

> As far as home schooling goes, I have to work for a living.

i'll teach those brats the laws of thermodynamics and projective geometry (in n dimensions). tongue
(but who will do political education?)

"And you for sure cant read nor write assembler, idiot." - orgy.

Jade
(soccer mom)
10-11-04 17:38
No 535375
User Picture       a few examples....

In response to the recent killings at Granite Hills High School and Santana High School in California, Attorney General John Ashcroft dismissed the call for more gun control laws, preaching instead the need for an "era of responsibility" and praising an armed school officer for shooting the alleged attacker. The NRA contributed $374,137 to Ashcroft's losing Senate race in Missouri last year.

Bush's FY 2002 budget provides virtually nothing to promote school safety and prevent gun violence but offers millions of dollars to encourage school districts to hire armed guards as the primary solution to school gun violence.
http://www.pww.org/past-weeks-2001/Moms%20march%20aim%20at%20gun%20lobby.htm

School safety experts say security officers are becoming permanent fixtures on the school landscape. "More officers are in schools than ever before," said Joanne McDaniel, research director for the North Carolina-based Center for Prevention of School Violence.

In North Carolina, for instance, the number of schools employing officers has increased 85 percent since 1996, a move McDaniel said has led to a decline in the number of violent incidents statewide and increased the feeling of safety in schools.
http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread1623.shtml

To improve security and address the drug problem, the public would approve security guards in school, the use of trained dogs to sniff out drugs, and random drug testing.
http://www.pdkintl.org/kappan/kpoll286.htm

In Kent schools, security guards are accused of handcuffing kids as young as 11. In one case, a guard allegedly pulled the hair of a girl and slammed her face into a locker, leaving a dent. The girl was hurled to the ground -- all for having had a verbal spar with a classmate.

District officials say they need to be able to restrain kids in order to prevent "another Columbine."

Invoking the Colorado school tragedy is a cheap, alarmist move by school leaders to justify jackbooted tactics.

Of 15 troubling student cases in Kent, this is how many involved young people armed with weapons: zilch.

In several instances, restraints were used, not because students posed a threat to themselves or others -- in which case the district permits the use of cuffs -- but because students didn't follow directions. How subjective. If that overly broad standard were applied universally, kids across America could be shackled to school desks for not listening.

For these reasons, the panel recommended suspending the use of handcuffs. It said Kent security officers should not carry firearms, batons, Tasers or pepper spray.

If Kent officials were hoping for a whitewash from the panel, they got a black eye instead.
Now, the School Board vote has brought back "business as usual" in the district.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamieson/186447_robert16.html

There's a terrorist behind every Bush.

Saddam_Hussein
(Hive Bee)
10-11-04 21:04
No 535396
User Picture       Repubs

In response to the recent killings at Granite Hills High School and Santana High School in California, Attorney General John Ashcroft dismissed the call for more gun control laws, preaching instead the need for an "era of responsibility" and praising an armed school officer for shooting the alleged attacker. The NRA contributed $374,137 to Ashcroft's losing Senate race in Missouri last year.

What drugs do these people take? crazy

President of the Iraqi Chemical Weapons of Mass Destruction Development Society

nuke
(Stranger)
10-11-04 23:44
No 535426
      In the school SWIM attended on the right side...

In the school SWIM attended on the right side of the US, there was somewhat blatent drug use that the school would turn a blind eye to because they were a highly rated public school. SWIM even saw students take out drugs (mostly MJ) and sell them in class. Students could also pretty freely talk about drugs without consequence. If parents were to find out about the drug use and the school's ratings were to go down, parents might move their kids somewhere else and property values would go down, and the effects would presumably be catastrophic.

Pot was probably the most used (illegal) drug, seconded by prescribed ADD/ADHD stimulants and painkillers, and occasionally mushrooms, meth, coke, acid, PCP, and heroin were available. Students were well aware of their lack of fundamental rights in regard to searching and the like, but the school administration/teachers rarely exercised that. LE was also rarely present at the school.

Jade
(soccer mom)
10-12-04 00:15
No 535429
User Picture       Dumbya says....

And when it comes to helping children make right choices, there is work for all of us to do...

One of the worst decisions our children can make is to gamble their lives and futures on drugs...

Our government is helping parents confront this problem, with aggressive education, treatment, and law enforcement...

Drug testing in our schools has proven to be an effective part of this effort...

So tonight I propose an additional 23 million for schools that want to use drug testing as a tool to save children's lives...

The aim here is not to punish children, but to send them this message: We love you, and we don't want to lose you...

Gives new meaning to the "no child left behind" act. We sure want each and every one of them to pass their exam when drafted. Well, all the ones that aren't relation to government, that is. mad

There's a terrorist behind every Bush.

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	All 10 posts		Subject: Protecting our children?		Please login to post		Down


		Jade (soccer mom) 10-11-04 05:11 No 535295				Protecting our children?
						Seems like the news is reporting more and more on this "zero tolerance" crap and how it is being carried out in our schools. Of course, since I have a daughter still in school, her dad in prison and a secret that could be even more damaging should it be revealed, my opinion could be a little biased. The fact that I do not like LE and the laws they enforce is pretty much common knowledge around here. However, IMO, the author of the following article tells a lot of truth about what is going to happen to our kids if this continues. "Educating Jailbirds" By James Post In the history of America, nothing has been more destructive to the nation than our own War On Drugs, which has caused more damage to citizens, to our legal rights, our business practices, our communities, our foreign policy, and to the trust between citizens and the state, many times more damage than all the drugs this persecution is intended to prohibit. Even so, perhaps the most destructive effects are yet to be seen, the results of anti-drug measures in the public school. Many government agencies have been made tools of DEA, since regulation and policy may be written at will, and need not fulfill the requirements of becoming duly-passed laws -- yet may be fully enforced. These agencies include the INS, IRS, FAA, FDA, ATF, FCC, CIA, DOL, DOT, ETC... all given roles and powers which exist only to enable greater surveillance and control of us all for drug interdiction, whatever the agency's nominal field of authority. Nothing more quickly arouses the willingness of the fearful sheep to surrender their power and rights to the sheepdogs than the cry to "protect the innocent children." Their media-stimulated fear of the dangers of the world (and their ecclesiastogenic revulsion for the "immoral") has enabled the drug fascists to impose practices in the schools which would be considered Stalinesque if declared as political policy, but which are accepted as anti-drug security measures. Our public schools are operated in the manner of penal institutions. School safety program designers are trained in police science. High school students are locked in, subject to restrictions enforced by uniformed armed guards. Though use of "obscene language" to an officer is a statutory crime, campus police exercise force to impose obedience. To ensure each suspicious student is free of drugs and weapons, they may sieze, arrest, and intimately search any dirty-mouth perp who speaks ill to authority. Though parent conference is mandatory, the system of campus discipline is not negotiable, but is a summary prosecution, to which the parent has only the principal to appeal. Administration finds it expedient for order's sake to look the other way, or to participate enthusiastically in running a clean, safe, moral, and well-disciplined school. Whether this policy is "right" or not, there are inescapable consequences of raising our children in a prison-like environment. If they are treated like prisoners - even for their own good - they will learn to think like prisoners, and to see themselves as prisoners. Since many are more sophisticated in real life than the schools' behavioral policies let them acknowledge on campus, they recognize the state is imposing restrictive illusions upon them. They might conclude the freedom of reality lies in escaping state oppression, and opposing those who support it. Raising kids in jail produces three kinds of adults: guards, inmates, and outlaws. Then we wonder why the ones that blow up the place are the smart ones from good homes... Public school is a mandatory term of incarceration in a state institution, under armed guard and physical duress. While being presented technical information and historical indoctrination, students are subject to behavioral regimentation to enforce the primary datum of the syllabus: belief in the rightness of and obedience to the authority of the state. Those who do not easily submit may be placed on mood-altering medication, and to refuse that is a crime. When practiced by other governments, placing the youth in mandatory behavior conditioning camps and using force, drugs, and propaganda to get them to obey The Leader is commonly called brainwashing. Can the school system be fixed? No. Its problems are fundamental. The drugwar use of penal security in schools is only one of its fatal flaws. Another is federal requirements based on demographic academic statistics. Funding statistics have become the primary concern of administrators, which has led to breakdown of standards of academic excellence. Affirmative-action labor policies have further made the academic part of the education experience meaningless to the working-class student. Where authoritarian moralists predominate, schools obligate students to posture in obedience to puritanical dress, language, and behavior codes far different from their real lives, further alienating them. Is the system therefore going to collapse? Not soon. Why, if someday we just dispense with The Constitution altogether, and elevate some four-star Drug Czar to the White House with the authority to get the job done, the system evolving in public education today might be the salvation of those young enough to still have innocence to protect. And for those malcontents who just couldn't take the yoke? Well, school is after all an introduction to the penal system. "We've got just the place you're trained to be, Boy. Wh'say we start you off with three to five for that bag of dope?" There's a terrorist behind every Bush.



		Stonium (BEE-OTCH) 10-11-04 12:33 No 535339				A public school education isn't mandatory
						Public school is a mandatory term of incarceration in a state institution, under armed guard and physical duress. The public school system isn't likely to change anytime soon, therefore if you feel strongly about this, perhaps you should seriously LOOK at some other options. Like giving your child(ren) a home (preferably) or private school education. _{Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Howard Zinn}



		embezzler (Hive Addict) 10-11-04 16:12 No 535359				private education
						STONI---Private education is beyond the reach of anyone on the average industrial wage where swim is from, unless they want to sacrifice food and clothes. JADE---however the government run schools here must be nothing like america if that article is any thing to go by, there are no guards armed, uniformed or otherwise. The idea of drug searches is laughable, when swim was in school a simple "fuck off" would have ended the matter of searching students.Hell I never saw anyone get a locker searched. There are no metal detectors because there are no weapons to detect. None of this is to say that there were no drugs at the school or that it was for privilaged kids, the students came from all over and drugs were experimented with, bought and sold.No-one cared.The teachers got paid if everyone failed or if everyone passed, it didnt matter. Few failed.The school didnt seem to suffer as a result of what seems lax regulation enforcement. There didnt seem to be any real willingness to comply with any governing bodies on behalf of the school authorities. The police were only called once and this was when some bikes were stolen.I think we got a 30 min speech on drugs the whole time i was there. How come america seems to have such a problem in schools? chemically enhanced.



		Jade (soccer mom) 10-11-04 16:18 No 535361				I have
						I live in a rural area and our school district is rather small. It has effected other schools in the area but we haven't quite encountered the full extent of it....yet. Also, since the "town" I live in consists of 1 post office, 1 general store, 1 public school and 25 churches, it shouldn't come as any surprise to you that the 2 private schools are both run by churches. As far as home schooling goes, I have to work for a living. I'm not sure that I would be that great at teaching anyway. I don't have the patience for it. There's a terrorist behind every Bush.



		embezzler (Hive Addict) 10-11-04 16:41 No 535364				how did it get to a situation where
						how did it get to a situation where there are armed guards at schools was this a gradual thing or did it happen as an emergency measure and was simply continued? chemically enhanced.



		hypo (Balanced Ego) 10-11-04 16:56 No 535366				i say send 'em here!
						> As far as home schooling goes, I have to work for a living. i'll teach those brats the laws of thermodynamics and projective geometry (in n dimensions). (but who will do political education?) "And you for sure cant read nor write assembler, idiot." - orgy.



		Jade (soccer mom) 10-11-04 17:38 No 535375				a few examples....
						In response to the recent killings at Granite Hills High School and Santana High School in California, Attorney General John Ashcroft dismissed the call for more gun control laws, preaching instead the need for an "era of responsibility" and praising an armed school officer for shooting the alleged attacker. The NRA contributed $374,137 to Ashcroft's losing Senate race in Missouri last year. Bush's FY 2002 budget provides virtually nothing to promote school safety and prevent gun violence but offers millions of dollars to encourage school districts to hire armed guards as the primary solution to school gun violence. http://www.pww.org/past-weeks-2001/Moms%20march%20aim%20at%20gun%20lobby.htm School safety experts say security officers are becoming permanent fixtures on the school landscape. "More officers are in schools than ever before," said Joanne McDaniel, research director for the North Carolina-based Center for Prevention of School Violence. In North Carolina, for instance, the number of schools employing officers has increased 85 percent since 1996, a move McDaniel said has led to a decline in the number of violent incidents statewide and increased the feeling of safety in schools. http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread1623.shtml To improve security and address the drug problem, the public would approve security guards in school, the use of trained dogs to sniff out drugs, and random drug testing. http://www.pdkintl.org/kappan/kpoll286.htm In Kent schools, security guards are accused of handcuffing kids as young as 11. In one case, a guard allegedly pulled the hair of a girl and slammed her face into a locker, leaving a dent. The girl was hurled to the ground -- all for having had a verbal spar with a classmate. District officials say they need to be able to restrain kids in order to prevent "another Columbine." Invoking the Colorado school tragedy is a cheap, alarmist move by school leaders to justify jackbooted tactics. Of 15 troubling student cases in Kent, this is how many involved young people armed with weapons: zilch. In several instances, restraints were used, not because students posed a threat to themselves or others -- in which case the district permits the use of cuffs -- but because students didn't follow directions. How subjective. If that overly broad standard were applied universally, kids across America could be shackled to school desks for not listening. For these reasons, the panel recommended suspending the use of handcuffs. It said Kent security officers should not carry firearms, batons, Tasers or pepper spray. If Kent officials were hoping for a whitewash from the panel, they got a black eye instead. Now, the School Board vote has brought back "business as usual" in the district. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamieson/186447_robert16.html There's a terrorist behind every Bush.



		Saddam_Hussein (Hive Bee) 10-11-04 21:04 No 535396				Repubs
						In response to the recent killings at Granite Hills High School and Santana High School in California, Attorney General John Ashcroft dismissed the call for more gun control laws, preaching instead the need for an "era of responsibility" and praising an armed school officer for shooting the alleged attacker. The NRA contributed $374,137 to Ashcroft's losing Senate race in Missouri last year. What drugs do these people take? President of the Iraqi Chemical Weapons of Mass Destruction Development Society



		nuke (Stranger) 10-11-04 23:44 No 535426				In the school SWIM attended on the right side...
						In the school SWIM attended on the right side of the US, there was somewhat blatent drug use that the school would turn a blind eye to because they were a highly rated public school. SWIM even saw students take out drugs (mostly MJ) and sell them in class. Students could also pretty freely talk about drugs without consequence. If parents were to find out about the drug use and the school's ratings were to go down, parents might move their kids somewhere else and property values would go down, and the effects would presumably be catastrophic. Pot was probably the most used (illegal) drug, seconded by prescribed ADD/ADHD stimulants and painkillers, and occasionally mushrooms, meth, coke, acid, PCP, and heroin were available. Students were well aware of their lack of fundamental rights in regard to searching and the like, but the school administration/teachers rarely exercised that. LE was also rarely present at the school.



		Jade (soccer mom) 10-12-04 00:15 No 535429				Dumbya says....
						And when it comes to helping children make right choices, there is work for all of us to do... One of the worst decisions our children can make is to gamble their lives and futures on drugs... Our government is helping parents confront this problem, with aggressive education, treatment, and law enforcement... Drug testing in our schools has proven to be an effective part of this effort... So tonight I propose an additional 23 million for schools that want to use drug testing as a tool to save children's lives... The aim here is not to punish children, but to send them this message: We love you, and we don't want to lose you... Gives new meaning to the "no child left behind" act. We sure want each and every one of them to pass their exam when drafted. Well, all the ones that aren't relation to government, that is. There's a terrorist behind every Bush.

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