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All 27 posts Subject: LSD Methanol Solution in Plastic Bottle -Katastoph Please login to post Down

kreiselmeier
(Newbee)
10-11-04 13:41
No 535349
      LSD Methanol Solution in Plastic Bottle -Katastoph

SWIM stored 13 G LSD in 330 ml Methanol soluton in his freezer (-7 C.) The plasticbottle was in a plasic bag. He put it on
chicken wrapped in plastic. 5 days later, a lot of people enjoyed the chicken. All of them started tripping.
ergo: Glassbottles are a must.

moo
(Hive Addict)
10-11-04 17:27
No 535374
      Was the plastic HDPE, PET or something else?

Was the plastic HDPE, PET or something else?

_{fear fear hate hate}

paranoid
(Quick-witted Quibbler)
10-11-04 21:52
No 535404
User Picture       Now that would have been an amusing dinner...

Now that would have been an amusing dinner party smile .

I'm skeptical however that it managed to permeate through the plastic so easily. Are you certain you simply didn't spill some, and perhaps the remaining portion on the bottom of the plastic bag infiltrated the chicken?

My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).

SpicyBrown
(Hive Bee)
10-14-04 04:25
No 535757
      That's a lot of LSD.

13 g of LSD - I'd be in heaven.

I find myself wondering a bit as well - So say the LSD made its way to the chicken. Was the chicken already cooked? Was it just thawed and eaten cold? Or was it cooked just prior to the party? I wouldn't think LSD would survive the extended heat of an oven. But hey, stranger things have happened.

-SpicyBrown

kreiselmeier
(Newbee)
10-29-04 16:00
No 538562
      It was frozen

The chicken was frozen in the freezer and wrapped. On to was the bottle, I do not know which material it was exactly, but i changed the bottle in the land of origin from Glass to an empty hairshampoo bottle. the bottle itself was also wrapped in a plasticbag. I did not open it.
The lsd must have went trough all the layers of plasic.
By the way, I am living very, very remote area, and the Indiginous people who eate the cooked chicken, well I had to bring them to the hospital. Belive me it was a heavy situation, at night, rain like hell, roads flooded and then the questions of the doctors...well I managed and this incedent is forgotten now, but schit, that was really not too nice. By the way, for how much goes a hit of lsd wholesale in the states now? In Europe is about 1.4 euro.

jboogie
(Hive Bee)
10-29-04 23:52
No 538637
      in sunny Florida....

us$2.00 for sheets of good geltabs/laserprint, $1.00 by the book. (a hit)
fluff-(liqid from xtyls) goes for a lot more though... liquid sells for bout $300 for 25ml (assuming its good L). kids just like liquid.
xtyls are rare and expensive. 1/2 grams go for $1000/1500 all day long. they will make more than a book, approx 12-15 sheets of strong ass paper.
id sure like to come for dinner at your house some time!! laugh

diacetylmorphomaniac

kreiselmeier
(Newbee)
10-30-04 16:50
No 538751
      Huh?

Thank you for the reply.
Since I am not so good in englich please give me an explanation:

us$2.00 for sheets of good geltabs/laserprint, $1.00 by the book. (a hit)

What is a Book?

fluff-(liqid from xtyls) goes for a lot more though... liquid sells for bout $300 for 25ml (assuming its good L). kids just like liquid.

What is Fluff and how concentrated is it? I mean what do you get for your 300 $

xtyls are rare and expensive. 1/2 grams go for $1000/1500 all day long. they will make more than a book, approx 12-15 sheets of strong ass paper.

How much hits are a sheet? (1000 i assume)

id sure like to come for dinner at your house some time!!

You want some chicken?

PS: if I sell 1g of good material in the US, is 7000 Dollar a good price? I could go down to 6500, but then it really starts to hurt.

jboogie
(Hive Bee)
10-30-04 17:17
No 538755
      the breakdown...

acid comes in 100 hit units, called sheets. 100 doses on a single "sheet" of paper or a thin piece of geletin(called gel tabs). a collection of 10 sheets is known as a book-1000 hits=book. 10 books are called a bible- this term is local as far as i know. my peeps in ATL dont know what the fuck a bible is.
a "vial" is roughly 25ml of liquid acid, about a 1/2 gram disolved in 350ml of dH2O.
fluff and xtyls- i dont really know the chemical difference between the fluff and the xtyl... the xtyl is silverish chards and very potent. the fluff is a slight beige translucent xtyls and a more mellow high; my thoughts were that the fluff is LSA as the high is not a intense.
hope that helps some. do keep in mind that this in the south US and prices are usally higher outta florida-(theres alotta peolpe comming and going round here, keeps the prices competitive)
so $3-5 a hit singly, $200 for 100 hits, $150 a piece for 3 or more sheets, bout a $800-1000 for a book(1000 hits).

diacetylmorphomaniac

meme
(Hive Bee)
11-01-04 05:35
No 539036
      Prices higher on the US East Coast

LSD is not so freakin' cheep on the US East Coast now, and I'm am pretty sure that those numbers are historical. I would love for somone to disagree.

LSD's availibility is very limited. There is 'acid,' mind you, but it is ald-52 coming in from eu . . . philly pa is a major hub, it seems, for this.

Pricing is dropping rapidly. A month ago 100 75 mic doses was running $300-500, and, while the price is dropping, it is doing so by the increase of dosage to 150 mics. Serious quantity (anything over a ten pack which is ten 100 hit-sheets) is hard to find, and a gram is running fully $30,000, and is very hard to find, and often (considering the price) good friends are willing to scam for it (ie $30,000 for 0 grams ;)

This info is accurate as of early fall 04.

I've also heard of amber acid (very impure, perhaps the mother liqour from which acid was re-crystalized) being availible, as well as silver(acid which has been crystalized, but not to purity), but, once again, in very limited amounts.

AFAS geltab acid, I have not heard any of my friends mention this in a few years . . . I want to note that a significant amount of gel-tabs do not contain lysergic anything as the main drug, and they are probably many americans first exposure to desinger drugs ;0

PS, the story about the chicken is freakin' weird, and I'm not sure I completely believe it . . . hope everyone's OK, and that it dosen't happen again.   Anyhoo, this is good factual info for everyone.

SpicyBrown
(Hive Bee)
11-01-04 13:00
No 539072
      Re: This info is accurate as of early fall 04.

This info is accurate as of early fall 04.

Must unfortunately concur. Though I've been hearing lots of chatter from various areas that acid is re-emerging... Perhaps it's just this ALD-52 you speak of. I can't say for certain, since I've yet to see any of it. BTW, has the identity of this ALD-52 been totally confirmed (or is it just based on experience with the compound)?

-SpicyBrown

Osmium
(Stoni's sexual toy)
11-01-04 14:51
No 539082
User Picture       > has the identity of this ALD-52 been...

> has the identity of this ALD-52 been totally confirmed (or is it just based on
> experience with the compound)?

Love those human mass spectrometers.

BUSH/CHENEY 2004! After all, it ain't my country!
www.american-buddha.com/addict.war.1.htm

L_jamf
(Hive Bee)
11-01-04 18:21
No 539095
User Picture       exactly

i can also vouch for the end-user price of $5 and up a hit. do keep in mind that SOMEONE is now out of prison.

torture for sure, too pure to inure, a chaffeur charlatan orangutan

meme
(Hive Bee)
11-01-04 18:50
No 539100
      Surity 52%

OK, this is what I know. I was told by a person that they were importing "a something 52." It took me like 15 mins before I asked him if it was "ald 52". The guy said that he thought so, and later went to his supplier and verified that this was what they were recieving. I can have a friend send a sample to a LAB (strong empases) or dancesafe or something. PLease let me know via pm.

the guy also said that there was some change of late that stopped them from either importing the reagents, or the lsd itself, and that this was a legal change in eu.

timnickbear
(Newbee)
11-01-04 22:03
No 539121
      LSD names

I was thinking that most of the people on the hive were science based and by being so that we could come to some conclusion on what LSD each name means. Fluff, Needlepoint, Amber, Lavender, Silver...How about this shit that had like one or two peaks on a GC. Wow lets name that pure. Everything else is either poor quality LSD or not LSD. xtls are crystals I presume.

meme
(Hive Bee)
11-02-04 01:48
No 539146
      Differing pharmacology

BTW, the main reason I am sure that the substance is not lsd25 is that those felons who would dare consume such a molecule do not experiance the effects as quickley as lsd.   The delay is a little hard for me to guess, though . . . it takes much longer than the 15 mins my poor, misguided friends are use to for lsd.

paranoid
(Quick-witted Quibbler)
11-02-04 03:19
No 539156
User Picture       Considering ALD-52 is supposed to be ...

Considering ALD-52 is supposed to be hydrolysed to LSD on contact with water, I suspect at least a portion of what is on a tab in the first place has already been converted to LSD due to ambient air moisture - nevermind the fact that as soon as it hits your tongue this happens rather quickly. I really doubt there would be a significant difference in the onset time.

But, my info may be outdated and or somewhat inaccurate (Peter Stafford's "Psychedelic Encyclopedia")

My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).

meme
(Hive Bee)
11-02-04 04:03
No 539163
      I've heard that, too, but

I've heard that too, but I beleive that it is enzymes that magically cleave the ester.

And yet, I do not know who has actually measured the speed or ease of that reaction. If ALD-52 hydrolyses so easily to LSD, and the body is indeed a hydrolytic instrument, then these two drugs should be absolutely equivalent in every particular, This is the ergot equivalent of the psilocybin to psilocin argument, except this is an acetamide rather than a phosphate ester. (Shulgin)

I also think I've read him say that he would love for some evidence to support such lovely conjecture (my words). The effects of the substance in my friends seems to be very, very similar to lsd, and yet there is a difference.

Even if is is blown into lsd very quickley, there is a tell-tale delay . . . lsd becomes active in a few minutes, and this sharp and pushy transition characterizes the molecule's action. The come-up from this substance in very gentle ...

hypo
(Balanced Ego)
11-02-04 08:39
No 539193
      puh-leeze!

meme: neither you nor your friend have the slightest idea what is on that blotter.
you're only making an ass out of yourself with your speculations, don't believe
everything people tell you. (a something 52 - suuuure...)

> the guy also said that there was some change of late that stopped them from either importing the
> reagents

the guy is full of crap.

HÎ¨=EÎ¨

meme
(Hive Bee)
11-03-04 17:50
No 539464
      Why is it so hard to believe?

Why is it so hard to believe that someone is importing a chemical, probably just made by a chemist in a legit lab somewhere else in the world? The statement that it was ald52 was not a selling point; it was a liability that it was not lsd. Why should the people bringing it in not know what they are ordering? Isn't it more ignorant to deny the possibility that it is ald52 completely? It's a hell of a lot easier to pay someone to make acid than to make it one's self.

I'd love for some science to settle this matter, rather than conjecture . . . and I am not embarresed at all.

If I had some pills, and I got them froma trusted source, who told me that they were methylone that was imported from china, and pressed, this wouldn't be a strange statement, right? I'm not sure that the one I made was any different. It is not impossible that the stuff is some other lysergic product, and I have never claimed absolute surity that it was. Yet one CANNOT deny that this is both historically and legally interesting, and I feel that this is worth of discussion here at least.

paranoid
(Quick-witted Quibbler)
11-04-04 02:05
No 539553
User Picture       "Isn't it more ignorant to deny the ...

"Isn't it more ignorant to deny the possibility that it is ald52 completely?"

The fact is, to manufacture ALD-52 you need to make LSD first AFAIK. Therefore it is highly unlikely both from an economic point of view and an effort point of view that someone would bother producing ALD-52 for distribution. Particularly when almost everyone who they would be selling to wouldn't have a clue what it was in the first place.

It just doesn't add up.

My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).

hypo
(Balanced Ego)
11-04-04 08:16
No 539616
      yes,

i don't want to lose to much words on this, but basically there's two possibilities:

1) the importer knows some higher ups (very unlikely), then no way in hell they will
tell him their trade secrets. they are too professional. stop kidding yourself.
2) the importer bought from someone in the european drug scene (chance: >99%), then
he was told crap. check the "bullshit" thread on the couch, those people are so
full of shit, it defies words.

concerning your tastings: this is so highly dose and set&setting dependent that
it's completely meaningless.

HÎ¨=EÎ¨

meme
(Hive Bee)
11-05-04 07:14
No 539814
      There are other ways to ald than from lsd

I'm sure that someone either here or if interested with a search engine can verify that n-acetyl lsa can be made from lsa, and is legal in the US as long as it is not intended for human consumption, and could yield ald-52 without lsd.

AFAS the person being a higher up . . . are you familiar with how acid is distrubuted? Although it is certainly organized crime, it really differs in a lot of ways.

How do you know who I am? I am not involved with the import, manufacture, or distrubution of acid; obviously I would not post about it if I was. Is it just because you think that such people are unknowible?

It's funny, the gold of my post has been ignored, and I'm glad. I hope everyone who needs the info catches it ;)

You argue my info is meaningless, based on opinion alone, and then seek to dissuade me from finding more scientiffic evidence.

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
11-05-04 08:04
No 539820
User Picture       n-acetyl lsa can be made from lsa, and is...

n-acetyl lsa can be made from lsa, and is legal in the US as long as it is not intended for human consumption, and could yield ald-52 without lsd.

Maybe it "could" in theory, but it is highly unlikely due to the vast difference in yield.

^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}

meme
(Hive Bee)
11-05-04 08:24
No 539822
      Thank you Rhodium

Thanks for some science to aid this conjecture.

If it was a matter of obtaining an unscheduled precursor, verses the inability of obtaining ET, perhaps a lower yield might matter.

Or, my info could be wrong.

I really wish that it had been pressed into a pill. I'm very unlikely to actually pay for an analysis of the substance, and really wish I was in the know of a harm reduction site. I am willing to bet that I can convince someone to send a smaple.

Rhodium, do you believe that the yield would be miniscule? Or are you aware of another route that might yield ald-52 that might be favorible?

Also, how large a sample of ald-52 would be reasonible to test? Ballpark figures of course. Anyone?

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
11-05-04 08:55
No 539824
User Picture       There simply is no incentive to make ALD-52

An N-acetyl group is very likely to be removed in almost every step in the Ergotamine -> LSD procedure (i.e. basic hydrolysis, chromatography, acid/base extraction) and even if trying hard to produce ALD-52, a lot of LSD-25 will invariably be produced as by-product, hence it is useless as a strategy to avoid possession of controlled substances. As it doesn't work for its intended purpose, a lowered yield is unlikely to be acceptable to any acid chemist as that would only add insult to injury...

^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}

meme
(Hive Bee)
11-05-04 10:09
No 539829
      hmmmmm....

OK, that is very interesting.

So would starting with the unscheduled product n-acetyl lsd yield mostly lsd, or would it simply interfere with the reaction, and produce a negligible yield of any salable product.

OK, I hope that at least the pricing info is helpful. I am very hesitant to post here; I only did so because this story seems to have some validity in that it has been said by people very trustworthy and in a position that would seem to have access to direct information; if it is not valid chemically, than it is at least true that it is a marketing stradgedy being used by some people pretty close to the fire.

The intent was never said to be to create a product that was legal to posess, in my understanding, but that they were able to create or acquire lsd, and could somehow aquire this substance.

There are definitely companies that would make one anything that is even slightly legal for them to do so, at crazy costs. Could this be perhaps a precurse to "acid" (in quotes because I mean either ald-52 or lsd-25) that is unscheduled at this moment?

I think that I'm off topic enough now that I should stop with the questions ;) I could ask half a dozen questions about producing lsd-like compunds using protective chemistry to avoid lsa and end up with LADs . . . I am very curious about this, but try my damnest to save bandwith and not waste a bunch of time on giving me an education that I should give myself. Thanks for your time, wink

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
11-05-04 10:45
No 539832
User Picture       I wouldn't envy a chemist using N-acetyl-LSA...

So would starting with the unscheduled product n-acetyl lsd yield mostly lsd, or would it simply interfere with the reaction

Assuming that you mean "starting with N-Acetyl-LSA" then both of the above statements are true. It is always very hard to work with product mixtures (invariably produced by loss of the acetyl group in any of the steps), thus complicating workup/purification, increasing byproduct formation and losses in yield, even if recycling any de-acetylated product after every step (very labor-intensive and boring).

^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}

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	All 27 posts		Subject: LSD Methanol Solution in Plastic Bottle -Katastoph		Please login to post		Down


		kreiselmeier (Newbee) 10-11-04 13:41 No 535349				LSD Methanol Solution in Plastic Bottle -Katastoph
						SWIM stored 13 G LSD in 330 ml Methanol soluton in his freezer (-7 C.) The plasticbottle was in a plasic bag. He put it on chicken wrapped in plastic. 5 days later, a lot of people enjoyed the chicken. All of them started tripping. ergo: Glassbottles are a must.



		moo (Hive Addict) 10-11-04 17:27 No 535374				Was the plastic HDPE, PET or something else?
						Was the plastic HDPE, PET or something else? _{fear fear hate hate}



		paranoid (Quick-witted Quibbler) 10-11-04 21:52 No 535404				Now that would have been an amusing dinner...
						Now that would have been an amusing dinner party . I'm skeptical however that it managed to permeate through the plastic so easily. Are you certain you simply didn't spill some, and perhaps the remaining portion on the bottom of the plastic bag infiltrated the chicken? My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).



		SpicyBrown (Hive Bee) 10-14-04 04:25 No 535757				That's a lot of LSD.
						13 g of LSD - I'd be in heaven. I find myself wondering a bit as well - So say the LSD made its way to the chicken. Was the chicken already cooked? Was it just thawed and eaten cold? Or was it cooked just prior to the party? I wouldn't think LSD would survive the extended heat of an oven. But hey, stranger things have happened. -SpicyBrown



		kreiselmeier (Newbee) 10-29-04 16:00 No 538562				It was frozen
						The chicken was frozen in the freezer and wrapped. On to was the bottle, I do not know which material it was exactly, but i changed the bottle in the land of origin from Glass to an empty hairshampoo bottle. the bottle itself was also wrapped in a plasticbag. I did not open it. The lsd must have went trough all the layers of plasic. By the way, I am living very, very remote area, and the Indiginous people who eate the cooked chicken, well I had to bring them to the hospital. Belive me it was a heavy situation, at night, rain like hell, roads flooded and then the questions of the doctors...well I managed and this incedent is forgotten now, but schit, that was really not too nice. By the way, for how much goes a hit of lsd wholesale in the states now? In Europe is about 1.4 euro.



		jboogie (Hive Bee) 10-29-04 23:52 No 538637				in sunny Florida....
						us$2.00 for sheets of good geltabs/laserprint, $1.00 by the book. (a hit) fluff-(liqid from xtyls) goes for a lot more though... liquid sells for bout $300 for 25ml (assuming its good L). kids just like liquid. xtyls are rare and expensive. 1/2 grams go for $1000/1500 all day long. they will make more than a book, approx 12-15 sheets of strong ass paper. id sure like to come for dinner at your house some time!! diacetylmorphomaniac



		kreiselmeier (Newbee) 10-30-04 16:50 No 538751				Huh?
						Thank you for the reply. Since I am not so good in englich please give me an explanation: us$2.00 for sheets of good geltabs/laserprint, $1.00 by the book. (a hit) What is a Book? fluff-(liqid from xtyls) goes for a lot more though... liquid sells for bout $300 for 25ml (assuming its good L). kids just like liquid. What is Fluff and how concentrated is it? I mean what do you get for your 300 $ xtyls are rare and expensive. 1/2 grams go for $1000/1500 all day long. they will make more than a book, approx 12-15 sheets of strong ass paper. How much hits are a sheet? (1000 i assume) id sure like to come for dinner at your house some time!! You want some chicken? PS: if I sell 1g of good material in the US, is 7000 Dollar a good price? I could go down to 6500, but then it really starts to hurt.



		jboogie (Hive Bee) 10-30-04 17:17 No 538755				the breakdown...
						acid comes in 100 hit units, called sheets. 100 doses on a single "sheet" of paper or a thin piece of geletin(called gel tabs). a collection of 10 sheets is known as a book-1000 hits=book. 10 books are called a bible- this term is local as far as i know. my peeps in ATL dont know what the fuck a bible is. a "vial" is roughly 25ml of liquid acid, about a 1/2 gram disolved in 350ml of dH2O. fluff and xtyls- i dont really know the chemical difference between the fluff and the xtyl... the xtyl is silverish chards and very potent. the fluff is a slight beige translucent xtyls and a more mellow high; my thoughts were that the fluff is LSA as the high is not a intense. hope that helps some. do keep in mind that this in the south US and prices are usally higher outta florida-(theres alotta peolpe comming and going round here, keeps the prices competitive) so $3-5 a hit singly, $200 for 100 hits, $150 a piece for 3 or more sheets, bout a $800-1000 for a book(1000 hits). diacetylmorphomaniac



		meme (Hive Bee) 11-01-04 05:35 No 539036				Prices higher on the US East Coast
						LSD is not so freakin' cheep on the US East Coast now, and I'm am pretty sure that those numbers are historical. I would love for somone to disagree. LSD's availibility is very limited. There is 'acid,' mind you, but it is ald-52 coming in from eu . . . philly pa is a major hub, it seems, for this. Pricing is dropping rapidly. A month ago 100 75 mic doses was running $300-500, and, while the price is dropping, it is doing so by the increase of dosage to 150 mics. Serious quantity (anything over a ten pack which is ten 100 hit-sheets) is hard to find, and a gram is running fully $30,000, and is very hard to find, and often (considering the price) good friends are willing to scam for it (ie $30,000 for 0 grams ;) This info is accurate as of early fall 04. I've also heard of amber acid (very impure, perhaps the mother liqour from which acid was re-crystalized) being availible, as well as silver(acid which has been crystalized, but not to purity), but, once again, in very limited amounts. AFAS geltab acid, I have not heard any of my friends mention this in a few years . . . I want to note that a significant amount of gel-tabs do not contain lysergic anything as the main drug, and they are probably many americans first exposure to desinger drugs ;0 PS, the story about the chicken is freakin' weird, and I'm not sure I completely believe it . . . hope everyone's OK, and that it dosen't happen again. Anyhoo, this is good factual info for everyone.



		SpicyBrown (Hive Bee) 11-01-04 13:00 No 539072				Re: This info is accurate as of early fall 04.
						This info is accurate as of early fall 04. Must unfortunately concur. Though I've been hearing lots of chatter from various areas that acid is re-emerging... Perhaps it's just this ALD-52 you speak of. I can't say for certain, since I've yet to see any of it. BTW, has the identity of this ALD-52 been totally confirmed (or is it just based on experience with the compound)? -SpicyBrown



		Osmium (Stoni's sexual toy) 11-01-04 14:51 No 539082				> has the identity of this ALD-52 been...
						> has the identity of this ALD-52 been totally confirmed (or is it just based on > experience with the compound)? Love those human mass spectrometers. BUSH/CHENEY 2004! After all, it ain't my country! www.american-buddha.com/addict.war.1.htm



		L_jamf (Hive Bee) 11-01-04 18:21 No 539095				exactly
						i can also vouch for the end-user price of $5 and up a hit. do keep in mind that SOMEONE is now out of prison. torture for sure, too pure to inure, a chaffeur charlatan orangutan



		meme (Hive Bee) 11-01-04 18:50 No 539100				Surity 52%
						OK, this is what I know. I was told by a person that they were importing "a something 52." It took me like 15 mins before I asked him if it was "ald 52". The guy said that he thought so, and later went to his supplier and verified that this was what they were recieving. I can have a friend send a sample to a LAB (strong empases) or dancesafe or something. PLease let me know via pm. the guy also said that there was some change of late that stopped them from either importing the reagents, or the lsd itself, and that this was a legal change in eu.



		timnickbear (Newbee) 11-01-04 22:03 No 539121				LSD names
						I was thinking that most of the people on the hive were science based and by being so that we could come to some conclusion on what LSD each name means. Fluff, Needlepoint, Amber, Lavender, Silver...How about this shit that had like one or two peaks on a GC. Wow lets name that pure. Everything else is either poor quality LSD or not LSD. xtls are crystals I presume.



		meme (Hive Bee) 11-02-04 01:48 No 539146				Differing pharmacology
						BTW, the main reason I am sure that the substance is not lsd25 is that those felons who would dare consume such a molecule do not experiance the effects as quickley as lsd. The delay is a little hard for me to guess, though . . . it takes much longer than the 15 mins my poor, misguided friends are use to for lsd.



		paranoid (Quick-witted Quibbler) 11-02-04 03:19 No 539156				Considering ALD-52 is supposed to be ...
						Considering ALD-52 is supposed to be hydrolysed to LSD on contact with water, I suspect at least a portion of what is on a tab in the first place has already been converted to LSD due to ambient air moisture - nevermind the fact that as soon as it hits your tongue this happens rather quickly. I really doubt there would be a significant difference in the onset time. But, my info may be outdated and or somewhat inaccurate (Peter Stafford's "Psychedelic Encyclopedia") My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).



		meme (Hive Bee) 11-02-04 04:03 No 539163				I've heard that, too, but
						I've heard that too, but I beleive that it is enzymes that magically cleave the ester. And yet, I do not know who has actually measured the speed or ease of that reaction. If ALD-52 hydrolyses so easily to LSD, and the body is indeed a hydrolytic instrument, then these two drugs should be absolutely equivalent in every particular, This is the ergot equivalent of the psilocybin to psilocin argument, except this is an acetamide rather than a phosphate ester. (Shulgin) I also think I've read him say that he would love for some evidence to support such lovely conjecture (my words). The effects of the substance in my friends seems to be very, very similar to lsd, and yet there is a difference. Even if is is blown into lsd very quickley, there is a tell-tale delay . . . lsd becomes active in a few minutes, and this sharp and pushy transition characterizes the molecule's action. The come-up from this substance in very gentle ...



		hypo (Balanced Ego) 11-02-04 08:39 No 539193				puh-leeze!
						meme: neither you nor your friend have the slightest idea what is on that blotter. you're only making an ass out of yourself with your speculations, don't believe everything people tell you. (a something 52 - suuuure...) > the guy also said that there was some change of late that stopped them from either importing the > reagents the guy is full of crap. HÎ¨=EÎ¨



		meme (Hive Bee) 11-03-04 17:50 No 539464				Why is it so hard to believe?
						Why is it so hard to believe that someone is importing a chemical, probably just made by a chemist in a legit lab somewhere else in the world? The statement that it was ald52 was not a selling point; it was a liability that it was not lsd. Why should the people bringing it in not know what they are ordering? Isn't it more ignorant to deny the possibility that it is ald52 completely? It's a hell of a lot easier to pay someone to make acid than to make it one's self. I'd love for some science to settle this matter, rather than conjecture . . . and I am not embarresed at all. If I had some pills, and I got them froma trusted source, who told me that they were methylone that was imported from china, and pressed, this wouldn't be a strange statement, right? I'm not sure that the one I made was any different. It is not impossible that the stuff is some other lysergic product, and I have never claimed absolute surity that it was. Yet one CANNOT deny that this is both historically and legally interesting, and I feel that this is worth of discussion here at least.



		paranoid (Quick-witted Quibbler) 11-04-04 02:05 No 539553				"Isn't it more ignorant to deny the ...
						"Isn't it more ignorant to deny the possibility that it is ald52 completely?" The fact is, to manufacture ALD-52 you need to make LSD first AFAIK. Therefore it is highly unlikely both from an economic point of view and an effort point of view that someone would bother producing ALD-52 for distribution. Particularly when almost everyone who they would be selling to wouldn't have a clue what it was in the first place. It just doesn't add up. My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).



		hypo (Balanced Ego) 11-04-04 08:16 No 539616				yes,
						i don't want to lose to much words on this, but basically there's two possibilities: 1) the importer knows some higher ups (very unlikely), then no way in hell they will tell him their trade secrets. they are too professional. stop kidding yourself. 2) the importer bought from someone in the european drug scene (chance: >99%), then he was told crap. check the "bullshit" thread on the couch, those people are so full of shit, it defies words. concerning your tastings: this is so highly dose and set&setting dependent that it's completely meaningless. HÎ¨=EÎ¨



		meme (Hive Bee) 11-05-04 07:14 No 539814				There are other ways to ald than from lsd
						I'm sure that someone either here or if interested with a search engine can verify that n-acetyl lsa can be made from lsa, and is legal in the US as long as it is not intended for human consumption, and could yield ald-52 without lsd. AFAS the person being a higher up . . . are you familiar with how acid is distrubuted? Although it is certainly organized crime, it really differs in a lot of ways. How do you know who I am? I am not involved with the import, manufacture, or distrubution of acid; obviously I would not post about it if I was. Is it just because you think that such people are unknowible? It's funny, the gold of my post has been ignored, and I'm glad. I hope everyone who needs the info catches it ;) You argue my info is meaningless, based on opinion alone, and then seek to dissuade me from finding more scientiffic evidence.



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 11-05-04 08:04 No 539820				n-acetyl lsa can be made from lsa, and is...
						n-acetyl lsa can be made from lsa, and is legal in the US as long as it is not intended for human consumption, and could yield ald-52 without lsd. Maybe it "could" in theory, but it is highly unlikely due to the vast difference in yield. ^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}



		meme (Hive Bee) 11-05-04 08:24 No 539822				Thank you Rhodium
						Thanks for some science to aid this conjecture. If it was a matter of obtaining an unscheduled precursor, verses the inability of obtaining ET, perhaps a lower yield might matter. Or, my info could be wrong. I really wish that it had been pressed into a pill. I'm very unlikely to actually pay for an analysis of the substance, and really wish I was in the know of a harm reduction site. I am willing to bet that I can convince someone to send a smaple. Rhodium, do you believe that the yield would be miniscule? Or are you aware of another route that might yield ald-52 that might be favorible? Also, how large a sample of ald-52 would be reasonible to test? Ballpark figures of course. Anyone?



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 11-05-04 08:55 No 539824				There simply is no incentive to make ALD-52
						An N-acetyl group is very likely to be removed in almost every step in the Ergotamine -> LSD procedure (i.e. basic hydrolysis, chromatography, acid/base extraction) and even if trying hard to produce ALD-52, a lot of LSD-25 will invariably be produced as by-product, hence it is useless as a strategy to avoid possession of controlled substances. As it doesn't work for its intended purpose, a lowered yield is unlikely to be acceptable to any acid chemist as that would only add insult to injury... ^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}



		meme (Hive Bee) 11-05-04 10:09 No 539829				hmmmmm....
						OK, that is very interesting. So would starting with the unscheduled product n-acetyl lsd yield mostly lsd, or would it simply interfere with the reaction, and produce a negligible yield of any salable product. OK, I hope that at least the pricing info is helpful. I am very hesitant to post here; I only did so because this story seems to have some validity in that it has been said by people very trustworthy and in a position that would seem to have access to direct information; if it is not valid chemically, than it is at least true that it is a marketing stradgedy being used by some people pretty close to the fire. The intent was never said to be to create a product that was legal to posess, in my understanding, but that they were able to create or acquire lsd, and could somehow aquire this substance. There are definitely companies that would make one anything that is even slightly legal for them to do so, at crazy costs. Could this be perhaps a precurse to "acid" (in quotes because I mean either ald-52 or lsd-25) that is unscheduled at this moment? I think that I'm off topic enough now that I should stop with the questions ;) I could ask half a dozen questions about producing lsd-like compunds using protective chemistry to avoid lsa and end up with LADs . . . I am very curious about this, but try my damnest to save bandwith and not waste a bunch of time on giving me an education that I should give myself. Thanks for your time,



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 11-05-04 10:45 No 539832				I wouldn't envy a chemist using N-acetyl-LSA...
						So would starting with the unscheduled product n-acetyl lsd yield mostly lsd, or would it simply interfere with the reaction Assuming that you mean "starting with N-Acetyl-LSA" then both of the above statements are true. It is always very hard to work with product mixtures (invariably produced by loss of the acetyl group in any of the steps), thus complicating workup/purification, increasing byproduct formation and losses in yield, even if recycling any de-acetylated product after every step (very labor-intensive and boring). ^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}

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