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All 20 posts   Subject: Feds plan to track every car   Please login to post   Down

(soccer mom)
10-19-04 11:22
No 536570
User Picture 
      Feds plan to track every car     

Feds plan to track every car
Obscure agency working on technology to monitor all vehicles

Posted: October 7, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2004

A little-known federal agency is planning a new monitoring program by which the government would track every car on the road by using onboard transceivers.

The agency, the Intelligent Transportation Systems Joint Program Office, is part of the Department of Transportation. According to an extensive report in the Charlotte, N.C., Creative Loafing, the agency doesn't respond to public inquiries about its activity.

According to the report, cutting-edge tracking technology will be used by government transportation management centers to monitor every aspect of transportation. Under the plan, not only will movement be monitored but it also will be archived in massive databases for future use.

The paper reports a group of car manufacturers, technology companies and government interests have worked toward implementing the project for 13 years.

States the Creative Loafing report:

"The only way for people to evade the national transportation tracking system they're creating will be to travel on foot. Drive your car, and your every movement could be recorded and archived. The federal government will know the exact route you drove to work, how many times you braked along the way, the precise moment you arrived – and that every other Tuesday you opt to ride the bus.

"They'll know you're due for a transmission repair and that you've neglected to fix the ever-widening crack that resulted from a pebble dinging your windshield."

The agency's website says its purpose is to "use advanced technology to improve the efficiency and safety of our nation's surface transportation system."

Critics believe the program will be used to line the pockets of business interests that stand to gain from the sale of needed technology and that the government will use the data collected to tax drivers on their driving habits.

Though the program has ominous privacy implications, Creative Loafing reports none of the privacy-rights organizations it contacted were aware of the government's plans.

The report states that more than $4 billion in federal tax dollars has already been spent to lay the foundation for the system, which will use GPS technology and other methods to monitor Americans' movements.

The plan includes transceivers, or "onboard units," that will transmit data from each car to the system, the first models of which are expected to be unveiled next spring. By 2010, the paper reported, automakers hope to start installing them in cars. The goal is to equip 57 million vehicles by 2015.

Creative Loafing quotes Bill Jones, technical director of the Intelligent Transportation Systems Joint Program Office, from a speech he gave in January.

"The concept," said Jones, "is that vehicle manufacturers will install a communications device on the vehicle starting at some future date, and equipment will be installed on the nation's transportation system to allow all vehicles to communicate with the infrastructure."

"The whole idea here is that we would capture data from a large number of vehicles," Jones said at another meeting of transportation officials in May. "That data could then be used by public jurisdictions for traffic management purposes and also by private industry, such as DaimlerChrysler, for the services that they wish to provide for their customers."

The plan sees the federal government working with auto manufacturers to place the transponders in vehicles at the factory, giving consumers little chance to drive a new car not tethered to transportation computers.

One of the program's visions is for transportation officials to share collected data with law enforcement, meaning a driver potentially could get a speeding ticket based on information stored in a government computer.

Proponents of the system say the safety benefits are enormous. One goal is to virtually eliminate auto accidents by having vehicles "communicate" with each other.

Neil Schuster is president and CEO of the Intelligent Transportation Society of America, a group of government and business people that's the driving force behind the program.

"When I get on an airplane everyone in the system knows where I am," Schuster told Creative Loafing. "They know which tickets I bought. You could probably go back through United Airlines and find out everywhere I traveled in the last year. Do I worry about that? No. We've decided that airline safety is so important that we're going to put a transponder in every airplane and track it. We know the passenger list of every airplane and we're tracking these things so that planes don't crash into each other. Shouldn't we have that same sense of concern and urgency about road travel? The average number of fatalities each year from airplanes is less than 100. The average number of deaths on the highway is 42,000. I think we've got to enter the debate as to whether we're willing to change that in a substantial way and it may be that we have to allow something on our vehicles that makes our car safer. ... I wouldn't mind some of this information being available to make my roads safer so some idiot out there doesn't run into me."

At least one proponent of the plan is actually using the term "Orwellian" to describe it.

At a workshop for industry and government leaders last year, the Charlotte paper reports, John Worthington, president and CEO of TransCore – one of the companies currently under contract to develop the onboard units for cars – described the system as "kind of an Orwellian all-singing, all-dancing collector/aggregator/disseminator of transportation information."

There's a terrorist behind every Bush.
(Hive Bee)
10-19-04 23:10
No 536693
      Truman Show     

The US is slowly becoming a real life Truman Show. I can't wait to hear what the ACLU has to say about this. If this system does become a reality I see it failing miserably. These transceivers are probably not too hard to remove. Then you can put it on some other moving object thereby adding erroneous data to their system. laugh

Crank is part of this complete breakfast.
(Minister of Propaganda)
10-19-04 23:19
No 536694
User Picture 
      Re: These transceivers are probably not too...     

These transceivers are probably not too hard to remove.

I'm guessing they will be built into the car's computer, and removing it will not be an option unless you want to buy a new engine.

Milk rots your brain.
(Hive Bee)
10-19-04 23:51
No 536698
      Yeah... they might very well do that.     

Yeah... they might very well do that. mad Although, I know people that had their computers replaced, so I guess on some cars it wouldn't require an engine replacement also. They do cost a great deal of money though. One of my friends paid $1100 to replace their computer and that was on a 1987 car. If a person is able to replace their computer I think it would be well worth the money. The government has given this Bee yet another reason to walk and ride a bike. Doing so helps to keep you in shape anyway. winkcool

Crank is part of this complete breakfast.
(Hive Bee)
10-20-04 00:11
No 536702
User Picture 
      Legal requirement     

It won't be long before it is a requirement to have a tracking system, just like a licence and plates. You won't have a choice. None of the toll systems will work and the cops will pull you straight away without one.

This is being tested in the UK right now and will shortly extend to the rest of the world.

His enemies called for peace, but he brought them death.  
Sredni Vashtar the Beautiful.
(Minister of Propaganda)
10-20-04 00:19
No 536703
User Picture 
      computer replacement     

What's the point of replacing your computer with another computer from the same OEM with a different GPS system? They still know where you are, though it might take them all of about 5 minutes to determine who you are.

There aren't many companies that can make computers, car or otherwise. Dell and HP don't make their own notebooks. They buy them from the manufacturer and slap their brand name on it.

The aftermarket car computers come from the same OEM that the automakers use. The aftermarket can tweek the settings a little for performance increases, but they can't eliminate any circuitry.

The only way to eliminate a computer from being in your car is to install a pre-computerized engine.

Milk rots your brain.
(Hive Bee)
10-20-04 04:21
No 536730
      The aftermarket car computers come from the...     

The aftermarket car computers come from the same OEM that the automakers use.

Well not all of them.

..we've got to help each other out Cause this is how we all survive..
(Minister of Propaganda)
10-20-04 04:24
No 536731
User Picture 
      Computers control a hell of a lot more than...     

Computers control a hell of a lot more than fuel injection.

Milk rots your brain.
(Hive Addict)
10-20-04 05:14
No 536738
User Picture 
      Good Point!     

>The only way to eliminate a computer from being in your
>car is to install a pre-computerized engine.

Only that won't work because they'll just outlaw all engines but the computerized jobbies....
It'll Probably fall under restriction by some fanatical enviromental emission control Bullshit!
They'll pass some assinine legislation like:
The Appliance Compliance Act of The 21st Century
"Compliance is a must....Resistance is futile"

It don't matter though cause AWE The Kidz will have digitized implant 666 chips installed at birth by then to deal with the shoeleather expresser's!laugh

If the shoethrows fits...Ware Itout
(Comandante A)
10-20-04 05:38
No 536744
User Picture 
      Save the environment and fuck the feds........... the same time.

Get rid of your car. It's not like your life is gonna end.
(Hive Addict)
10-20-04 05:40
No 536745
User Picture 
      amen to that abolt     

I love public transportation. It quick and anonymous, hard to track.

Cui peccare licet peccat minus - One who is allowed to sin, sins less. (Ovid)
(Minister of Propaganda)
10-20-04 05:51
No 536747
User Picture 
      Not everyone lives in a city.     

Not everyone lives in a city. And I don't understand why anyone would even want to.

Milk rots your brain.
(Hive Bee)
10-20-04 06:05
No 536751
      Well... the current computers will probably be     

Well... the current computers will probably be around for some time from dealers that specialize in old parts. Maybe some of them will still work in these "major violation to your privacy cars". Yeah... I'm with Abolt on this too. Cars are a hassle IMO and I rather not contribute to the destruction of this planet.

Crank is part of this complete breakfast.
(Hive Bee)
10-20-04 20:11
No 536858

what about carbureted cars? The older ones have no computers so.....? I heard about this and heard that the Department of motor vehicles computer will be similer to computer tollway devices. Just a little box that you put on your dash.
(Hive Addict)
10-21-04 14:52
No 536967
      They will also be putting them in you.     

They will also be putting them in you. No, this isn't the usual "it says in the bible about a sign in the hand" crap.

But I was working with the radio on and it just said that some USA agency has given permission for the use of chips in humans for medical purposes.

Maybe one day buying a new motor wont do it anymore.

(Hive Addict)
10-21-04 15:33
No 536970
User Picture 
      Ref: Chips for everyone........     

Yes Jsorex  it's true, about the chips on humans, here in Mexico high risk of kidnapping executives have this chips put on them for security  and more recently in the U.S. they have been putting them on children with medical history information....but last, it will be subltle the implementation  of marker chips first medical convinience for those with chronic health problems, then they will brand all the aids patients, then the probation dept will have all of it's parole's on the chip .....the list goes on and soon everyone for one reason or another will be forced to be chiped and those that refuse will be chiped for so the prophecies will slowly come to

read about it.......



It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees...Emiliano Zapata
(Of Counsel)
10-21-04 16:52
No 536976
      FDA approval     

The US Food and Drug Administration recently gave its approval to injectable RFID chips. That part of the future is already here.

mostly harmless
(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
10-21-04 20:56
No 537014

No one has approached me about installing anything on my special construction motorcycles? I guess the only people they wont be able to track would be people on foot and bikers that build there own... Lucky us

Tighten Up!  (UH)
(Hive Addict)
10-21-04 21:23
No 537017
User Picture 
      Will you be branded........     

While it's true that there will be loopholes in the motorized vehicles they will tighten the loop and start chiping , felons, people that have DUI's, illegal immigrants or legal, sex ofenders, ex military type, government  employee's,  and somehow they will have methods to get everyone, regardless of what you drive or not. Now the problem is how to fool the tracking system, and the removal of the chip without alarming the system. It's best to find  the way to not allow for all this to happen.......besides who is in charge of the freedom of the average citizen?

It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees...Emiliano Zapata
(Of Counsel)
10-21-04 21:49
No 537024

besides who is in charge of the freedom of the average citizen?

The average citizen.

And the freedom the average citizen has can be protected by the exercise of the right to vote, if you can make the sheep realize it in time.

mostly harmless

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