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All 15 posts Subject: psychoactives acetylation Please login to post Down

skanic
(Hive Bee)
10-27-04 21:24
No 538153
      psychoactives acetylation

Hi !!! dear bees !

we know that the acetylation of morphine gives heroin (diacetylmorphine), which is more potent (2times) .

so, have 2 questions :
   Will acetylation of other substances (uppers or downers) could increase their potency ?

1) CAN WE MAKE "acetyl-mdma", "acetyl-dxm", "acetyl-caffeine"(!!!), "acetyl-thc!" "acetyl-amphetamine",(or acetyl-ephedrine) "acetyl-methcat", "acetyl-diazepam"............

2) IS ACETYL-CODEINE ACTIVE ? ( and If yes ,by nasal ,i.v. , or smoked administration?)

any comment about pharmacology of acetylated compounds will be VERY much greatly appreciated

skanic

my name' nobody

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
10-27-04 22:01
No 538166
User Picture       ill acetylation of other substances (uppers or

ill acetylation of other substances (uppers or downers) could increase their potency ?

No - it is a lot more complicated than that - most of the compound you mention would be inactive.

^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}

Drug_Phreak
(Hive Bee)
10-28-04 03:03
No 538242
      You can acetylate THC, which will give you...

You can acetylate THC, which will give you Tetrahydrocannabinol Acetate (THCA). It is about double the potency of THC. Converting the THC to its high rotating form beforehand will increase the potency even more. Salvinorin can also be acetylated, but that would be the epitome of overkill. wink

Crank is part of this complete breakfast.

Blind_Angel
(Hive Bee)
10-28-04 03:24
No 538245
User Picture       maybe acetyl-dxm too, since DXM has an alcohol

maybe acetyl-dxm too, since DXM has an alcohol group like morphine (methink)

/}/_//\//) /-|/\//¬/=/_

Lilienthal
(Moderator)
10-28-04 07:37
No 538278
User Picture       You can't acetylate salvinorin A and DXM.

You can't acetylate salvinorin A and DXM. As far as I remember the stated higher potency of O-acetyl-THC has been questioned, and IMHO there wouldn't be any reson for a higher potency.

The acetyl group on alcohol groups ("O-acetyl") makes compounds more lipophilic so that they can more easily penetrate the blood-brain barrier. Since the acetyl group is easily split off by ubiquitous esterases in the body the compound (e.g. morphine) is regenerated and can act in the brain. Nothing mysterious smile .

(With these keywords you should be able to search the web (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/) or biochem / pharmacology books smile )

skanic
(Hive Bee)
10-28-04 08:12
No 538284
      i'd like to know why opioids, dxm n thc can be

i'd like to know why opioids, dxm n thc can be acetylated (i heard alcohol group on dxm).
And I'd like to know why acetylation of compounds as (ephedrine,PEAs,mdma,benzos, tryptamines)... gives inactives products.

Is there a rule that tell us the products that can be acetylated and the others that can not be acetylated ?

My second question is : does acetylcodeine can be snorted or smoked, and is acetylcodeine potent ?

skanic

Nicodem
(Hive Bee)
10-28-04 12:34
No 538317
User Picture       Get yourself a chemistry schoolbook

Is there a rule that tell us the products that can be acetylated and the others that can not be acetylated ?

This question is simply too general and you can only understand the answer if you pick up a basic organic chemistry schoolbook and learn the basics. Just waiting for someone to bother explaining will not accomplish anything.
Anyway, only the nucleophylic groups can be acetylated, but they must be able to eliminate a proton to form a neutral product. Thus, for example, groups like: -OH, -NH₂, -NHR, -SH, heterocyclic =NH (like in indole) and active methylene groups. Therefore alcohols, phenoles, amines, anilines, malonic esters, indoles, pyrroles and other similar heterocycles. But in general you can also call acetylation any electrophylic substitution on the aromatic ring that substitutes -H with -CO-Me.

�The real drug-problem is that we need more and better drugs.� � J. Ott

longimanus
(Hive Bee)
10-28-04 14:37
No 538329
User Picture       Acetylcodeine

Read this Post 478260 (Vitus_Verdegast: "Found these:", General Discourse). Or UTFSE for "acetylcodeine". Shortly, 6-acetylcodeine is a convulsant (I really don`t like this 3-O-Me thing - personal experience).

skanic
(Hive Bee)
10-28-04 17:04
No 538340
      why

excuse me for my poor knowledge in chemistry,
But as Nicodem told : "groups like: -OH, -NH2, -NHR, -SH, heterocyclic =NH"... ,

Then, i think we could acetylate the NH2 of GABA(to make it cross the BBB)
, or acetylate the OH of ephedrine, amphetamine, cathinone... to have a more potent coumpound (or active at least).

Lilienthal
(Moderator)
10-28-04 17:06
No 538341
User Picture       Sure, you can acetylate amino groups to get...

Sure, you can acetylate amino groups to get amides, but they are not split off in the brain, so you are left with an inactive compound in your brain. And now go, study your books smile

Drug_Phreak
(Hive Bee)
10-28-04 20:32
No 538357
      I remember reading a journal article on ...

I remember reading a journal article on Salvinorin acetylation or something of that nature. I think it was in JACS and I forget the results. If I had the kind of library access I use to have I would search for this article and post it here.

Crank is part of this complete breakfast.

skanic
(Hive Bee)
10-29-04 12:02
No 538514
      help

diacetylmorphine which has a "MeCOO" group instead of morphine which has a "OH" group is metabolised into morphine in the brain.

gaba has too an OH group which makes it acetylable to cross the bbb, then tha brain converts acetylgaba to gaba.
it leave us with a more potent drug(perhaps sniffable or smokable).

Could anyone tell me where i am wrong ?

PS : does anybody know what compound change diam to morphine in the brain?

skanic

Nicodem
(Hive Bee)
10-29-04 14:40
No 538544
User Picture       Wrong&Wrong

Could anyone tell me where i am wrong ?

You are wrong about many things, but first I will give you two advices:
1.) You should learn at least basic pharmacology. The knowledge you show is near to zero and yet you give bold claims and propositions.
2.) Same as advice #1 but change the word "pharmacology" to "chemistry".

If you could acetylate the -OH of a carboxylic acid like GABA you would get a mixed acid anhydride which gets hydrolyzed by water way sooner than being transported to the brains (luckily). That is, if something like O-acetyl-GABA could ever exist, which it does not as it would immediately cyclise to pyrrolidone.

PS : does anybody know what compound change diam to morphine in the brain?

One or more of the numerous esterase enzymes, I would guess.

“The real drug-problem is that we need more and better drugs.” – J. Ott

jboogie
(Hive Bee)
10-30-04 00:22
No 538640
      i heard one time...

i was told it was the Fe(iron) and heat that converted the diacetyl to morphine. my chemistry skills are limited. i may bee full of shit. please correct me, but i cant find the info source outta google. tongue

diacetylmorphomaniac

Lilienthal
(Moderator)
10-30-04 10:56
No 538718
User Picture       READ THIS THREAD! We told you twice it's done...

READ THIS THREAD! We told you twice it's done by 'Esterases' crazy

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	All 15 posts		Subject: psychoactives acetylation		Please login to post		Down


		skanic (Hive Bee) 10-27-04 21:24 No 538153				psychoactives acetylation
						Hi !!! dear bees ! we know that the acetylation of morphine gives heroin (diacetylmorphine), which is more potent (2times) . so, have 2 questions : Will acetylation of other substances (uppers or downers) could increase their potency ? 1) CAN WE MAKE "acetyl-mdma", "acetyl-dxm", "acetyl-caffeine"(!!!), "acetyl-thc!" "acetyl-amphetamine",(or acetyl-ephedrine) "acetyl-methcat", "acetyl-diazepam"............ 2) IS ACETYL-CODEINE ACTIVE ? ( and If yes ,by nasal ,i.v. , or smoked administration?) any comment about pharmacology of acetylated compounds will be VERY much greatly appreciated skanic my name' nobody



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 10-27-04 22:01 No 538166				ill acetylation of other substances (uppers or
						ill acetylation of other substances (uppers or downers) could increase their potency ? No - it is a lot more complicated than that - most of the compound you mention would be inactive. ^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}



		Drug_Phreak (Hive Bee) 10-28-04 03:03 No 538242				You can acetylate THC, which will give you...
						You can acetylate THC, which will give you Tetrahydrocannabinol Acetate (THCA). It is about double the potency of THC. Converting the THC to its high rotating form beforehand will increase the potency even more. Salvinorin can also be acetylated, but that would be the epitome of overkill. *Crank is part of this complete breakfast.*



		Blind_Angel (Hive Bee) 10-28-04 03:24 No 538245				maybe acetyl-dxm too, since DXM has an alcohol
						maybe acetyl-dxm too, since DXM has an alcohol group like morphine (methink) /}/_//\//) /-\|/\//¬/=/_



		Lilienthal (Moderator) 10-28-04 07:37 No 538278				You can't acetylate salvinorin A and DXM.
						You can't acetylate salvinorin A and DXM. As far as I remember the stated higher potency of O-acetyl-THC has been questioned, and IMHO there wouldn't be any reson for a higher potency. The acetyl group on alcohol groups ("O-acetyl") makes compounds more lipophilic so that they can more easily penetrate the blood-brain barrier. Since the acetyl group is easily split off by ubiquitous esterases in the body the compound (e.g. morphine) is regenerated and can act in the brain. Nothing mysterious . (With these keywords you should be able to search the web (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/) or biochem / pharmacology books )



		skanic (Hive Bee) 10-28-04 08:12 No 538284				i'd like to know why opioids, dxm n thc can be
						i'd like to know why opioids, dxm n thc can be acetylated (i heard alcohol group on dxm). And I'd like to know why acetylation of compounds as (ephedrine,PEAs,mdma,benzos, tryptamines)... gives inactives products. Is there a rule that tell us the products that can be acetylated and the others that can not be acetylated ? My second question is : does acetylcodeine can be snorted or smoked, and is acetylcodeine potent ? skanic



		Nicodem (Hive Bee) 10-28-04 12:34 No 538317				Get yourself a chemistry schoolbook
						Is there a rule that tell us the products that can be acetylated and the others that can not be acetylated ? This question is simply too general and you can only understand the answer if you pick up a basic organic chemistry schoolbook and learn the basics. Just waiting for someone to bother explaining will not accomplish anything. Anyway, only the nucleophylic groups can be acetylated, but they must be able to eliminate a proton to form a neutral product. Thus, for example, groups like: -OH, -NH₂, -NHR, -SH, heterocyclic =NH (like in indole) and active methylene groups. Therefore alcohols, phenoles, amines, anilines, malonic esters, indoles, pyrroles and other similar heterocycles. But in general you can also call acetylation any electrophylic substitution on the aromatic ring that substitutes -H with -CO-Me. �The real drug-problem is that we need more and better drugs.� � J. Ott



		longimanus (Hive Bee) 10-28-04 14:37 No 538329				Acetylcodeine
						Read this Post 478260 (Vitus_Verdegast: "Found these:", General Discourse). Or UTFSE for "acetylcodeine". Shortly, 6-acetylcodeine is a convulsant (I really don`t like this 3-O-Me thing - personal experience).



		skanic (Hive Bee) 10-28-04 17:04 No 538340				why
						excuse me for my poor knowledge in chemistry, But as Nicodem told : "groups like: -OH, -NH2, -NHR, -SH, heterocyclic =NH"... , Then, i think we could acetylate the NH2 of GABA(to make it cross the BBB) , or acetylate the OH of ephedrine, amphetamine, cathinone... to have a more potent coumpound (or active at least).



		Lilienthal (Moderator) 10-28-04 17:06 No 538341				Sure, you can acetylate amino groups to get...
						Sure, you can acetylate amino groups to get amides, but they are not split off in the brain, so you are left with an inactive compound in your brain. And now go, study your books



		Drug_Phreak (Hive Bee) 10-28-04 20:32 No 538357				I remember reading a journal article on ...
						I remember reading a journal article on Salvinorin acetylation or something of that nature. I think it was in JACS and I forget the results. If I had the kind of library access I use to have I would search for this article and post it here. *Crank is part of this complete breakfast.*



		skanic (Hive Bee) 10-29-04 12:02 No 538514				help
						diacetylmorphine which has a "MeCOO" group instead of morphine which has a "OH" group is metabolised into morphine in the brain. gaba has too an OH group which makes it acetylable to cross the bbb, then tha brain converts acetylgaba to gaba. it leave us with a more potent drug(perhaps sniffable or smokable). Could anyone tell me where i am wrong ? PS : does anybody know what compound change diam to morphine in the brain? skanic



		Nicodem (Hive Bee) 10-29-04 14:40 No 538544				Wrong&Wrong
						Could anyone tell me where i am wrong ? You are wrong about many things, but first I will give you two advices: 1.) You should learn at least basic pharmacology. The knowledge you show is near to zero and yet you give bold claims and propositions. 2.) Same as advice #1 but change the word "pharmacology" to "chemistry". If you could acetylate the -OH of a carboxylic acid like GABA you would get a mixed acid anhydride which gets hydrolyzed by water way sooner than being transported to the brains (luckily). That is, if something like O-acetyl-GABA could ever exist, which it does not as it would immediately cyclise to pyrrolidone. PS : does anybody know what compound change diam to morphine in the brain? One or more of the numerous esterase enzymes, I would guess. “The real drug-problem is that we need more and better drugs.” – J. Ott



		jboogie (Hive Bee) 10-30-04 00:22 No 538640				i heard one time...
						i was told it was the Fe(iron) and heat that converted the diacetyl to morphine. my chemistry skills are limited. i may bee full of shit. please correct me, but i cant find the info source outta google. diacetylmorphomaniac



		Lilienthal (Moderator) 10-30-04 10:56 No 538718				READ THIS THREAD! We told you twice it's done...
						READ THIS THREAD! We told you twice it's done by 'Esterases'

All 15 posts	End of thread	Top