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All 5 posts Subject: electro. prep of Mn(V)So4? Please login to post Down

n00dle
(Hive Bee)
11-04-04 14:57
No 539661
      electro. prep of Mn(V)So4?

Hi bees. Let's assume unactivated MnO2 is to be had in surplus quantities, but sulfuric acid is not.

The goal is to end up with Mn(V)So4 which can be reduced to Mn(2)So4 which in turn will hopefully oxidise some toluene to benzaldehyde.

Due to lack of much quantity of sulfuric acid, would electrolysis provide a means of forcing the generation of Mn(5)So4 over just heating in conc. sulfuric acid?

I understand the V+ electrolysis mechanism is recyclable with 100% turnover to benzaldehyde, Mn ions should function the same but with aroundabout a 70%/30% benzaldehyde/tolune turnover.

Is this oxidation of toluene process going to be easier for one to do, eg, less strain on the amount of sulfuric acid, possibly reusable? SWIM does not really want large amounts of dangerous things such as sulfuric acid lying around.

Sorry for newb questions, electrolysis ain't SWIM's thing, but i guess if it is the only option, it will soon have to be.

Nicodem
(Hive Bee)
11-04-04 18:54
No 539684
User Picture       Mn(V)So4 ???

I don't think there is any such thing as "Mn(V)So4". What compound is that code supposed to bee for?

The reaction between MnO₂ and sulphuric acids only yields MnSO₄, oxygen and water:

MnO_2(s) + H₂SO_4(aq) -> MnSO_4(aq) + 1/2 O_2(g) + H₂O_(l)

“The real drug-problem is that we need more and better drugs.” – J. Ott

acx01b
(Hive Bee)
11-04-04 19:14
No 539688
User Picture       can i just ask here how MnO2 is produced for...

can i just ask here how MnO2 is produced for all the alkaline batteries of the world ?

n00dle
(Hive Bee)
11-05-04 02:13
No 539770
      Nicodem, SWIM placed MnSO4 into hot conq.

Nicodem,
SWIM placed Mn[II]SO4 into hot conq. sulfuric acid and it gave a brown precipitate of Mn[V]SO4. The roman numbers are just the state of oxidation I believe.

All SWIM is trying to do by this, is see if we can use electricity to push the rxn forward, so we might be able to use less sulfuric acid, less concentrated forms, or no heat.

the reaction says that the '5' state oxidises toluene and you end up with the '2' state. Therefore, the manganese is reducing. Therefore if we wanted to 'recharge' it, we need to oxidise it again.

If one had a compacted bar of '2' state manganese sulfate and used this as the anode and a graphite cathode, and used dilute (perhaps 20%?) sulfuric acid, and applied power to the circuit, would this push in our favour?

Organikum
(Wonderful Personality)
11-07-04 15:20
No 540202
      You will find all this and much more in ...

You will find all this and much more in Antonchos´s Benzaldehyde thread. Heaps of patents and what-not-ever-else. Even buying a book of Uncle Fester on Meth will answer your question. Partly.
UTFSE.

The compound is manganese-persulfate or manganese(III)sulfate IIRC.

so near, so far......

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	All 5 posts		Subject: electro. prep of Mn(V)So4?		Please login to post		Down


		n00dle (Hive Bee) 11-04-04 14:57 No 539661				electro. prep of Mn(V)So4?
						Hi bees. Let's assume unactivated MnO2 is to be had in surplus quantities, but sulfuric acid is not. The goal is to end up with Mn(V)So4 which can be reduced to Mn(2)So4 which in turn will hopefully oxidise some toluene to benzaldehyde. Due to lack of much quantity of sulfuric acid, would electrolysis provide a means of forcing the generation of Mn(5)So4 over just heating in conc. sulfuric acid? I understand the V+ electrolysis mechanism is recyclable with 100% turnover to benzaldehyde, Mn ions should function the same but with aroundabout a 70%/30% benzaldehyde/tolune turnover. Is this oxidation of toluene process going to be easier for one to do, eg, less strain on the amount of sulfuric acid, possibly reusable? SWIM does not really want large amounts of dangerous things such as sulfuric acid lying around. Sorry for newb questions, electrolysis ain't SWIM's thing, but i guess if it is the only option, it will soon have to be.



		Nicodem (Hive Bee) 11-04-04 18:54 No 539684				Mn(V)So4 ???
						I don't think there is any such thing as "Mn(V)So4". What compound is that code supposed to bee for? The reaction between MnO₂ and sulphuric acids only yields MnSO₄, oxygen and water: MnO_2(s) + H₂SO_4(aq) -> MnSO_4(aq) + 1/2 O_2(g) + H₂O_(l) “The real drug-problem is that we need more and better drugs.” – J. Ott



		acx01b (Hive Bee) 11-04-04 19:14 No 539688				can i just ask here how MnO2 is produced for...
						can i just ask here how MnO2 is produced for all the alkaline batteries of the world ?



		n00dle (Hive Bee) 11-05-04 02:13 No 539770				Nicodem, SWIM placed MnSO4 into hot conq.
						Nicodem, SWIM placed Mn[II]SO4 into hot conq. sulfuric acid and it gave a brown precipitate of Mn[V]SO4. The roman numbers are just the state of oxidation I believe. All SWIM is trying to do by this, is see if we can use electricity to push the rxn forward, so we might be able to use less sulfuric acid, less concentrated forms, or no heat. the reaction says that the '5' state oxidises toluene and you end up with the '2' state. Therefore, the manganese is reducing. Therefore if we wanted to 'recharge' it, we need to oxidise it again. If one had a compacted bar of '2' state manganese sulfate and used this as the anode and a graphite cathode, and used dilute (perhaps 20%?) sulfuric acid, and applied power to the circuit, would this push in our favour?



		Organikum (Wonderful Personality) 11-07-04 15:20 No 540202				You will find all this and much more in ...
						You will find all this and much more in Antonchos´s Benzaldehyde thread. Heaps of patents and what-not-ever-else. Even buying a book of Uncle Fester on Meth will answer your question. Partly. UTFSE. The compound is manganese-persulfate or manganese(III)sulfate IIRC. so near, so far......

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