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All 27 posts Subject: Total Synthesis III? Please login to post Down

psychokitty
(«»)
11-05-04 00:20
No 539751
      Total Synthesis III?
(Rated as: excellent)

Since Total Synthesis II is still on sale, why don't some of we Hive members pull together our resources and write a new book? We could update each chapter (and eliminate obsolete ones) through the cooperation of multiple teams of Hive members. All this could take place behind closed doors so that the contents of the book will be kept safe and sound from prying eyes. Then, once the new edition is complete, we could email it, fax it, whatever, to Panda Ink as a gift. The updated version could finally then be published and distributed. Neat, huh?

I vote that Kinetic, Nemo_Tenetur (if he's still around) and I deal with a new chapter on cathinones. Bio and/or Twodogs could tackle the Baeyer-Villiger reaction (I could help with the collection of literature).

ETA for this project would be about a year.

Any volunteers?

Rhodium, what do you think?

Bandil
(The Archetypical "Good Guy")
11-05-04 17:03
No 539870
      Excellent idea!

That is a most excellent idea! I would most definately volunteers for writing some of the chapters if needed!

Regards
Bandil

Only one way leads to Valhalla - Running amok with TOTAL VIKING POWER

psychokitty
(«»)
11-05-04 20:59
No 539888
      Suggestions?

Then who should write what?

I'll get access to a copy of TSII this weekend. I'll post a synopsis of each chapter to aide those interested in assisting with the updates.

Xaja
(Hive Bee)
11-07-04 02:37
No 540109
User Picture       Post deleted

Post deleted

**FriedPiper**

http://www.freezaoui.org.nz/

Xaja
(Hive Bee)
11-07-04 02:38
No 540110
      Precursors/reagents

If this goes ahead SWIX would love to see the precursor/reagent chapter (final chapter in TSII) greatly expanded. Things like, for example, N-methyl formamide are just too hard to come by these days. Many things are just too suspicous to order these days, especially where I am from.

**FriedPiper**

http://www.freezaoui.org.nz/

Nicodem
(Hive Bee)
11-07-04 08:59
No 540160
User Picture       Many things are just too suspicous to order...

Many things are just too suspicous to order these days, especially where I am from.

Could this also bee the consequence of such literature? Wouldn't popularizing new synthetic methods and listing new (and for now still available) precursors make them more suspicious when acquired in the future?
Maybe the focus should be changed from the clandestine chemistry of known recreational drugs (books like Total Synthesis and others similar) to books on new drugs, not necessarily recreational but either less known or completely new. Kind of like a semi-scientific research rapports on the synthesis and bioassays (well, PIHKAL-like if you wish wink ). That would make it less dangerous to have the precursors controlled as well as hopefully popularize the research kitchen-chemistry of the psychoactive drugs instead of popularizing the fast money making with clandestine chemistry blush . Though the sales would be probably lower, but at least the book would be sold to all the neurochemistry, neuropharmacology, pharmaceutical research and forensic laboratories which are quite numerous. smile

PS: Maybe the sales profit, if any, could go for The Hive maintenance?

“The real drug-problem is that we need more and better drugs.” – J. Ott

embezzler
(Hive Addict)
11-07-04 14:28
No 540188
User Picture       Now I havnt been here as long as you guys n gals

but what nicodem said makes sense, If people want to make the stuff they can visit here to learn how to do it and as a bonus they get introduced to a (in my opinion) more mature view on why they should take/make the stuff in the first place and advice one what to buy what not to buy and help if they need it.

Psychokitty: Can i ask what the point of this book is? if the book is going to be a gift why not just make it an e-book available for free download from somewhere.(i mean that question in the best possible way...no disrespect meant etc.)

Simply making a new book with sources in is counter productive, it would be pretty hipocritical coming from the hive too since newbees get flamed for even suggesting it, with good reason I might add.The only sources it should contain imo are sources of further reading on the subject.

If people want to learn about the chemistry and pharmacology of mind altering chemicals they can come here or read stuff like pihkal/tihkal, If they want to make money from drugs they can see their dealer about buying bigger and make this hobby easier for the rest of us.

As far as making money for the hive it would probably be a better idea to back up all the hive threads and Rhodiums archive onto a cd or dvd and sell encryted copies to bees, would free up bandwith and generate cash.But that is for the mods to decide.

chemically enhanced.

Organikum
(Wonderful Personality)
11-07-04 15:51
No 540208
      Thats a good plan psychokitty.

Thats a good plan psychokitty. If you are interested in me participating (and if you think I am suited for the task in some way of course), PM me please.

/ORG

so near, so far......

Starkas
(Hive Bee)
11-08-04 21:58
No 540491
      Re: Can i ask what the point of this book is?

Can i ask what the point of this book is? if the book is going to be a gift why not just make it an e-book available for free download from somewhere.(i mean that question in the best possible way...no disrespect meant etc.)

The reference to ‘Panda Ink’ implies Psychokitty was suggesting that the proceeds go to the founder of this great place. Arguably Rhodium & site maintenance would be a better candidate for any profits. However, as long as you’re using the TS name you would be taking sales away from TS2 & the funds really would have to go to Strike.

Osmium
(Stoni's sexual toy)
11-08-04 22:18
No 540493
User Picture       It could be bundled with the still available...

It could be bundled with the still available copies of TS2. Get the whole encycopedia for only 49.99 plus shipping!

BUSH/CHENEY 2004! After all, it ain't my country!
www.american-buddha.com/addict.war.1.htm

Blind_Angel
(Hive Bee)
11-08-04 23:35
No 540508
User Picture       Is there a TS1?

Is there a TS1?

/}/_//\//) /-|/\//¬/=/_

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
11-09-04 01:24
No 540534
      Total Synthesis & Total Synthesis II

Total Synthesis (1997)

(http://www.erowid.org/library/books/total_synthesis.shtml)

Total Synthesis II (1999)

(http://www.erowid.org/library/books/total_synthesis2.shtml)

^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}

LoW_JacK
(Hive Martyr)
11-10-04 18:10
No 540869
User Picture       OK!

as a bonus they get introduced to a (in my opinion) more mature view on why they should take/make the stuff in the first place

And what would those views consist of? They said I cant, so fuck them, I'll do it anyhow?
Sounds logical too me.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3818abff3380.htm

dumbjanitor
(Hive Bee)
11-10-04 21:18
No 540908
      why not just teach how to make....

Why not just teach how to make all the precursers from scratch? Yeah it'd be hard but.... I'm new and stupid but naming sources and revolutionary techniques is well, foolish in my eyes. Your only going to make things harder for yourselves. Why not just make your own book with collaberations from the top bees. I mean if you really want to help the originator out you could just donate proceeds, then ts2 will still sell for him, and you can have your new book. And if yu want the most notorious book ever add a cdrom with all video lab techniques (legal of course), but that would definetly drive up costs, but shit ott's books are in the 100's.

psyloxy
(Hive Addict)
11-11-04 22:02
No 541089
User Picture       Does this clandestine community need publicity ?

There was talk about a TSIII years ago, in a thread which got lost. Back then it was the favored opinion to make it an eBook, which I would still prefer over a hardcopy. OTOH, from the impressions I got during the years that have passed since, I'm almost afraid of a new TS sold thru amazon.com and the likes.

Don't get me wrong: where I live, I don't really believe a book will have much negative effect on the circumstances in the mid-future. But there's a bunch of feelings this project brings about in me:

The hive's purpose (as I see it) is to help *encouraged* people find the information they want - people who are willing to invest time, lot's of thinking and a bit of money in order to acheive their goals.

TSII made some very delicate chemical information available to the broad public, .gov included, just like the hive does - but here the real information is spread and diluted with lot's of bullshit. Why the hell would we want to hand over the collected achievements of progression and simplification in the synthesis of (yet unrecognised) mind-altering substances, laid out in simple terms, to the public and the DEA without that protective fuzz of decentralization and isolation which the hive offers sought after information.

What could be some negative results of TSIII being published ?

- spreading the idea of making drugs at home to even more people; the more people involved, the more dumbfucks will be involved, and even today I think these dangerously outnumber the well educated + dedicated elite, which in my version of a better society should be responsible for making available the keys to the doors of perception. I think most new readers of a TSIII would immediately fool themselves into believing they've found the remedy for their financial problems; when they start fucking up their first synth or their first big deal the generated media attention followed by the usual legislative bullshit is going to harm all of us in the long run.

- getting the wrong folks aware of the potential of analogs; RC companies might have them custom synthesized, people might try to make their own and sell them as X in the streets, the result being the scheduling of these substances in Europe.

- giving law enforcement an overview of the strategies clandestine chemists are likely to follow these days, which could result in a major update of precursor laws; luckily these still read like they have no clue of what's possible and I count that as an advantage for our side, why would we want to lose it ?

Yeah, these are about my main concerns. Cooking drugs is not for the masses and not for the uneducated. The place to gather relevant information is the global network of libraries followed by rhodiums archive and the hive. Selling a new book looks like an advertisement and, though I understand most people around here are quite proud of this underground community, we do not need that.

On the issue of the high demand for an updated overview of state-of-the-art synthetic methods: if people are after them, they just have to look for them here, using TFSE is all that needs to be done. Everybody should try writing their own version of TSIII, that would assure that only people with a real interest get to see the whole picture, after all this is not about candy !

--psyloxy--

Tdurden969
(Hive Bee)
11-11-04 22:54
No 541102
      I agree with psyloxy.

I agree with psyloxy.
Not that my opinon matters much (or should)

..we've got to help each other out Cause this is how we all survive..

psychokitty
(«»)
11-11-04 23:16
No 541111
      I respectfully disagree

Cooking drugs is not for the masses and not for the uneducated

An elitist statement, if ever there was one.

Information should be free, or, at the very least, where underground pharmaceutical chemistry is concerned, it should cost about as much as a hard or electronic copy of TSIII. laugh

But seriously, disregarding all the legal concerns and sociological red tape, TSIII should most importantly be written for the sake of Strike, his honor, and his legacy. How many of us can say, with absolute certainty, that we would be just as educated today about pharmaceutical chemistry without having been introduced to such comprehensive and user-friendly literature as TSI or TSII?

The degree to Strike's likely and unwanted suppressed silence is, I would venture, in most part defined and limited by how vocal the Hive is as a community.

Where's your gratitude? Where's your pride? Where are you balls, man?

Safety and security aren't everything, you know.

EDIT: Oh, and like it or not, TSIII WILL be written.

The clock starts now . . .

java
(Hive Addict)
11-12-04 00:39
No 541124
User Picture       Ref: Total Synthesis III

As much as I hate to get into this discussions .....here it goes,

The hive is fact a sort of an electronic total Synthesis if you look at all its parts, it has its sections, i.e Stimulus, chemistry , Serious Chemistry, Newbie,tryptamine , nobel, ....also many digests with complete list of referenced articles and the threads to read the comments also.

Many procedures are developed with comments and inputs with article references be it the synthesis of methylamine, ....to Fentanyl and all the precursors in between and with the large data base at Rhodium's, one gets the best of both worlds.

Some bee's make it a hobby to stick to one subject and periodically develop it such is the case with Organikum and his pet project synthesis of ephedrine while others, too many to mention, enjoy new and not too traveled ways to get to a precursor or a finished product. I myself have been stubbornly stuck to Phenylalanine for better or for worse , but a lot of interesting material has been generated.

All and all I think we all have our own version of a Total syntheis in our own personal hard drive or hard copies of all our favorite patents articles and copies of Hive threads which serve us well in our particular interest.

I have no problem with sharing the information, however for all the steps forward that we take and document here at the hive we give the opponent , LE, ways in which they can block our efforts . It's a difficult situation whereas it's important to share and not be elitist with our research and at the same time not give away the research just to arm the opposition, because we are in a war with them.

So to the reader I say you must pay your dues and UTFSE to compile your own version of Total Synthesis
as we all do and to refine your notes , use the excellent help found in the various forums by asking those questions which will gain you the information you weren't able to find in the FSE.

At the end of the day what wil be will be,.....sounds like the lyrics of a song, and so these are my thoughts on the subject........java

It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees...Emiliano Zapata

psychokitty
(«»)
11-12-04 01:16
No 541129
      Again, I say (write): ELITIST!

So to the reader I say you must pay your dues and UTFSE to compile your own version of Total Synthesis
as we all do and to refine your notes , use the excellent help found in the various forums by asking those questions which will gain you the information you weren't able to find in the FSE.

The Hive and Rhodium's page are too massive for a newbee to comprehend fast enough to any educational degree. Look at the newbees that come and go so quickly. They split most often, I would guess, because they just don't get it and that SUCKS.

Strike wrote TSI and TSII to make it easier on those who have trouble reading between the lines of the published methods. With practically NO articles being published that describe newer and better syntheses of amphetamines, bridging the gap between the current state of the art of chemistry and simple and useful OTC techniques is becoming harder and harder for those who are new to the art.

Any btw, what are you talking about when you say you don't want LE to gain an edge over us? May I remind you that the Hive is open to the public? And for those forums that aren't, all you have to do is register with us for free. What is so secret that we can't risk publishing another volume of TS?

Maybe you guys just don't wanna make any contibutions because for some of you, that would mean a lot of work.

Buncha fuckin' lazy bees.

dumbjanitor
(Hive Bee)
11-12-04 06:32
No 541173
      just keep it on the d.L.

well, psychokitty i'm an absoulute dumb ass and I am slowly begining to comprehend most everything i'm interested in, seriously i'm dumb compared to everyone else here. It is not to hard, I didn't even graduate junior high. Second,
"- spreading the idea of making drugs at home to even more people; the more people involved, the more dumbfucks will be involved, and even today I think these dangerously outnumber the well educated + dedicated elite"- Thats one hundered percent true. Say I, a dumbfuck just bought a ts3 instead of slowly and steadily digesting all the information on rhodium's and this site, just thought hey this is all it!, and started somthing and fuck myself up, or worse somone else. Granted, people without a braincell shouldn't start this stuff, but they will, and they will kill someone else, then a copy of ts3 will be found, then it will be all over the news, it will be linked to this site, more news coverage to this site, and then the pharm markers will reformulate, IT'S JUST TO MUCH TROUBLE!! I've seen the attitude around here that the hive is untouchable, well I pray every time I go to this site that its still up.

Unobtainium
(Minister of Propaganda)
11-12-04 09:01
No 541194
User Picture       Our operatives would take care of you long...

Our operatives would take care of you long before the police did.

Idiots got their hands on the first TS books too.

We're still here.

Xaja
(Hive Bee)
11-12-04 10:34
No 541203
User Picture       Aye aye

I kindly volunteer for service as an operative, it sounds quite amusing tee hee... cool

Yup in greatest traditions of net drug chem SWIX, for one, votes for TSIII to go ahead...

LONG LIVE THE HIVE!!! cool

Oh man I off for another beer...

***Xaja feels toasted as fuck**** cool

**FriedPiper**

I love BUSH! The pussy, not the President!!

Anansi
(Hive Bee)
11-13-04 11:31
No 541360
      Brilliant Idea!

Brilliant idea, psychokitty!

I'd be more than happy to volunteer to help with the work involved, be that collating info to form chapters or proofreading the final drafts.

...Anansi

weedar
(Gaylord)
11-13-04 18:38
No 541405
User Picture       slightly off topic

I've been trying to get a hold of Total Synthesis I for
ages (not for the contents, I'm a pack-rat), but I can't
seem to find it anywhere. Can anyone reccomend places I
should look? (like good second-hand webshops, etc..)

"seriously thishomo internet shit needs to stop" -mcrandom

dumbjanitor
(Hive Bee)
11-14-04 16:26
No 541519
      TS1

I found that amazon has TS1, but when you click on it it shows a picture of ts2 for description. But when you look ay both copyright dates, ts1-97', ts2-99'. So.... I'm too paranoid to order anything off that site anyways, look at some of the commentary for the books, its like a open letter to the dea.

Bwiti
(PVC-Analog Taste-Tester)
11-14-04 19:41
No 541539
User Picture       Total Synthesis 2

I've been slowly copying T.S.2 and converting every page into JPGs.. If anyone is interested in having this, just tell me and I'll put a rush on it. At some point, I'd like to convert them to a large Acrobat file.

Love My Country, Fear My Government

karl
(Hive Bee)
11-14-04 20:30
No 541546
User Picture       There is already a djvu version of TSII ...

There is already a djvu version of TSII available on the emule/eDonkey network at about 2MB.

Fuck the creationists - MC Hawking

	https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org	the-hive@erowid.org



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	All 27 posts		Subject: Total Synthesis III?		Please login to post		Down


		psychokitty («») 11-05-04 00:20 No 539751				Total Synthesis III? (Rated as: excellent)
						Since Total Synthesis II is still on sale, why don't some of we Hive members pull together our resources and write a new book? We could update each chapter (and eliminate obsolete ones) through the cooperation of multiple teams of Hive members. All this could take place behind closed doors so that the contents of the book will be kept safe and sound from prying eyes. Then, once the new edition is complete, we could email it, fax it, whatever, to Panda Ink as a gift. The updated version could finally then be published and distributed. Neat, huh? I vote that Kinetic, Nemo_Tenetur (if he's still around) and I deal with a new chapter on cathinones. Bio and/or Twodogs could tackle the Baeyer-Villiger reaction (I could help with the collection of literature). ETA for this project would be about a year. Any volunteers? Rhodium, what do you think?



		Bandil (The Archetypical "Good Guy") 11-05-04 17:03 No 539870				Excellent idea!
						That is a most excellent idea! I would most definately volunteers for writing some of the chapters if needed! Regards Bandil Only one way leads to Valhalla - Running amok with TOTAL VIKING POWER



		psychokitty («») 11-05-04 20:59 No 539888				Suggestions?
						Then who should write what? I'll get access to a copy of TSII this weekend. I'll post a synopsis of each chapter to aide those interested in assisting with the updates.



		Xaja (Hive Bee) 11-07-04 02:37 No 540109				Post deleted
						Post deleted FriedPiper http://www.freezaoui.org.nz/



		Xaja (Hive Bee) 11-07-04 02:38 No 540110				Precursors/reagents
						If this goes ahead SWIX would love to see the precursor/reagent chapter (final chapter in TSII) greatly expanded. Things like, for example, N-methyl formamide are just too hard to come by these days. Many things are just too suspicous to order these days, especially where I am from. FriedPiper http://www.freezaoui.org.nz/



		Nicodem (Hive Bee) 11-07-04 08:59 No 540160				Many things are just too suspicous to order...
						Many things are just too suspicous to order these days, especially where I am from. Could this also bee the consequence of such literature? Wouldn't popularizing new synthetic methods and listing new (and for now still available) precursors make them more suspicious when acquired in the future? Maybe the focus should be changed from the clandestine chemistry of known recreational drugs (books like Total Synthesis and others similar) to books on new drugs, not necessarily recreational but either less known or completely new. Kind of like a semi-scientific research rapports on the synthesis and bioassays (well, PIHKAL-like if you wish). That would make it less dangerous to have the precursors controlled as well as hopefully popularize the research kitchen-chemistry of the psychoactive drugs instead of popularizing the fast money making with clandestine chemistry. Though the sales would be probably lower, but at least the book would be sold to all the neurochemistry, neuropharmacology, pharmaceutical research and forensic laboratories which are quite numerous. PS: Maybe the sales profit, if any, could go for The Hive maintenance? “The real drug-problem is that we need more and better drugs.” – J. Ott



		embezzler (Hive Addict) 11-07-04 14:28 No 540188				Now I havnt been here as long as you guys n gals
						but what nicodem said makes sense, If people want to make the stuff they can visit here to learn how to do it and as a bonus they get introduced to a (in my opinion) more mature view on why they should take/make the stuff in the first place and advice one what to buy what not to buy and help if they need it. Psychokitty: Can i ask what the point of this book is? if the book is going to be a gift why not just make it an e-book available for free download from somewhere.(i mean that question in the best possible way...no disrespect meant etc.) Simply making a new book with sources in is counter productive, it would be pretty hipocritical coming from the hive too since newbees get flamed for even suggesting it, with good reason I might add.The only sources it should contain imo are sources of further reading on the subject. If people want to learn about the chemistry and pharmacology of mind altering chemicals they can come here or read stuff like pihkal/tihkal, If they want to make money from drugs they can see their dealer about buying bigger and make this hobby easier for the rest of us. As far as making money for the hive it would probably be a better idea to back up all the hive threads and Rhodiums archive onto a cd or dvd and sell encryted copies to bees, would free up bandwith and generate cash.But that is for the mods to decide. chemically enhanced.



		Organikum (Wonderful Personality) 11-07-04 15:51 No 540208				Thats a good plan psychokitty.
						Thats a good plan psychokitty. If you are interested in me participating (and if you think I am suited for the task in some way of course), PM me please. /ORG so near, so far......



		Starkas (Hive Bee) 11-08-04 21:58 No 540491				Re: Can i ask what the point of this book is?
						Can i ask what the point of this book is? if the book is going to be a gift why not just make it an e-book available for free download from somewhere.(i mean that question in the best possible way...no disrespect meant etc.) The reference to ‘Panda Ink’ implies Psychokitty was suggesting that the proceeds go to the founder of this great place. Arguably Rhodium & site maintenance would be a better candidate for any profits. However, as long as you’re using the TS name you would be taking sales away from TS2 & the funds really would have to go to Strike.



		Osmium (Stoni's sexual toy) 11-08-04 22:18 No 540493				It could be bundled with the still available...
						It could be bundled with the still available copies of TS2. Get the whole encycopedia for only 49.99 plus shipping! BUSH/CHENEY 2004! After all, it ain't my country! www.american-buddha.com/addict.war.1.htm



		Blind_Angel (Hive Bee) 11-08-04 23:35 No 540508				Is there a TS1?
						Is there a TS1? /}/_//\//) /-\|/\//¬/=/_



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 11-09-04 01:24 No 540534				Total Synthesis & Total Synthesis II
						Total Synthesis (1997) (http://www.erowid.org/library/books/total_synthesis.shtml) Total Synthesis II (1999) (http://www.erowid.org/library/books/total_synthesis2.shtml) ^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}



		LoW_JacK (Hive Martyr) 11-10-04 18:10 No 540869				OK!
						as a bonus they get introduced to a (in my opinion) more mature view on why they should take/make the stuff in the first place And what would those views consist of? They said I cant, so fuck them, I'll do it anyhow? Sounds logical too me. http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3818abff3380.htm



		dumbjanitor (Hive Bee) 11-10-04 21:18 No 540908				why not just teach how to make....
						Why not just teach how to make all the precursers from scratch? Yeah it'd be hard but.... I'm new and stupid but naming sources and revolutionary techniques is well, foolish in my eyes. Your only going to make things harder for yourselves. Why not just make your own book with collaberations from the top bees. I mean if you really want to help the originator out you could just donate proceeds, then ts2 will still sell for him, and you can have your new book. And if yu want the most notorious book ever add a cdrom with all video lab techniques (legal of course), but that would definetly drive up costs, but shit ott's books are in the 100's.



		psyloxy (Hive Addict) 11-11-04 22:02 No 541089				Does this clandestine community need publicity ?
						There was talk about a TSIII years ago, in a thread which got lost. Back then it was the favored opinion to make it an eBook, which I would still prefer over a hardcopy. OTOH, from the impressions I got during the years that have passed since, I'm almost afraid of a new TS sold thru amazon.com and the likes. Don't get me wrong: where I live, I don't really believe a book will have much negative effect on the circumstances in the mid-future. But there's a bunch of feelings this project brings about in me: The hive's purpose (as I see it) is to help encouraged people find the information they want - people who are willing to invest time, lot's of thinking and a bit of money in order to acheive their goals. TSII made some very delicate chemical information available to the broad public, .gov included, just like the hive does - but here the real information is spread and diluted with lot's of bullshit. Why the hell would we want to hand over the collected achievements of progression and simplification in the synthesis of (yet unrecognised) mind-altering substances, laid out in simple terms, to the public and the DEA without that protective fuzz of decentralization and isolation which the hive offers sought after information. What could be some negative results of TSIII being published ? - spreading the idea of making drugs at home to even more people; the more people involved, the more dumbfucks will be involved, and even today I think these dangerously outnumber the well educated + dedicated elite, which in my version of a better society should be responsible for making available the keys to the doors of perception. I think most new readers of a TSIII would immediately fool themselves into believing they've found the remedy for their financial problems; when they start fucking up their first synth or their first big deal the generated media attention followed by the usual legislative bullshit is going to harm all of us in the long run. - getting the wrong folks aware of the potential of analogs; RC companies might have them custom synthesized, people might try to make their own and sell them as X in the streets, the result being the scheduling of these substances in Europe. - giving law enforcement an overview of the strategies clandestine chemists are likely to follow these days, which could result in a major update of precursor laws; luckily these still read like they have no clue of what's possible and I count that as an advantage for our side, why would we want to lose it ? Yeah, these are about my main concerns. Cooking drugs is not for the masses and not for the uneducated. The place to gather relevant information is the global network of libraries followed by rhodiums archive and the hive. Selling a new book looks like an advertisement and, though I understand most people around here are quite proud of this underground community, we do not need that. On the issue of the high demand for an updated overview of state-of-the-art synthetic methods: if people are after them, they just have to look for them here, using TFSE is all that needs to be done. Everybody should try writing their own version of TSIII, that would assure that only people with a real interest get to see the whole picture, after all this is not about candy ! --psyloxy--



		Tdurden969 (Hive Bee) 11-11-04 22:54 No 541102				I agree with psyloxy.
						I agree with psyloxy. Not that my opinon matters much (or should) ..we've got to help each other out Cause this is how we all survive..



		psychokitty («») 11-11-04 23:16 No 541111				I respectfully disagree
						Cooking drugs is not for the masses and not for the uneducated An elitist statement, if ever there was one. Information should be free, or, at the very least, where underground pharmaceutical chemistry is concerned, it should cost about as much as a hard or electronic copy of TSIII. But seriously, disregarding all the legal concerns and sociological red tape, TSIII should most importantly be written for the sake of Strike, his honor, and his legacy. How many of us can say, with absolute certainty, that we would be just as educated today about pharmaceutical chemistry without having been introduced to such comprehensive and user-friendly literature as TSI or TSII? The degree to Strike's likely and unwanted suppressed silence is, I would venture, in most part defined and limited by how vocal the Hive is as a community. Where's your gratitude? Where's your pride? Where are you balls, man? Safety and security aren't everything, you know. EDIT: Oh, and like it or not, TSIII WILL be written. The clock starts now . . .



		java (Hive Addict) 11-12-04 00:39 No 541124				Ref: Total Synthesis III
						As much as I hate to get into this discussions .....here it goes, The hive is fact a sort of an electronic total Synthesis if you look at all its parts, it has its sections, i.e Stimulus, chemistry , Serious Chemistry, Newbie,tryptamine , nobel, ....also many digests with complete list of referenced articles and the threads to read the comments also. Many procedures are developed with comments and inputs with article references be it the synthesis of methylamine, ....to Fentanyl and all the precursors in between and with the large data base at Rhodium's, one gets the best of both worlds. Some bee's make it a hobby to stick to one subject and periodically develop it such is the case with Organikum and his pet project synthesis of ephedrine while others, too many to mention, enjoy new and not too traveled ways to get to a precursor or a finished product. I myself have been stubbornly stuck to Phenylalanine for better or for worse , but a lot of interesting material has been generated. All and all I think we all have our own version of a Total syntheis in our own personal hard drive or hard copies of all our favorite patents articles and copies of Hive threads which serve us well in our particular interest. I have no problem with sharing the information, however for all the steps forward that we take and document here at the hive we give the opponent , LE, ways in which they can block our efforts . It's a difficult situation whereas it's important to share and not be elitist with our research and at the same time not give away the research just to arm the opposition, because we are in a war with them. So to the reader I say you must pay your dues and UTFSE to compile your own version of Total Synthesis as we all do and to refine your notes , use the excellent help found in the various forums by asking those questions which will gain you the information you weren't able to find in the FSE. At the end of the day what wil be will be,.....sounds like the lyrics of a song, and so these are my thoughts on the subject........java It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees...Emiliano Zapata



		psychokitty («») 11-12-04 01:16 No 541129				Again, I say (write): ELITIST!
						So to the reader I say you must pay your dues and UTFSE to compile your own version of Total Synthesis as we all do and to refine your notes , use the excellent help found in the various forums by asking those questions which will gain you the information you weren't able to find in the FSE. The Hive and Rhodium's page are too massive for a newbee to comprehend fast enough to any educational degree. Look at the newbees that come and go so quickly. They split most often, I would guess, because they just don't get it and that SUCKS. Strike wrote TSI and TSII to make it easier on those who have trouble reading between the lines of the published methods. With practically NO articles being published that describe newer and better syntheses of amphetamines, bridging the gap between the current state of the art of chemistry and simple and useful OTC techniques is becoming harder and harder for those who are new to the art. Any btw, what are you talking about when you say you don't want LE to gain an edge over us? May I remind you that the Hive is open to the public? And for those forums that aren't, all you have to do is register with us for free. What is so secret that we can't risk publishing another volume of TS? Maybe you guys just don't wanna make any contibutions because for some of you, that would mean a lot of work. Buncha fuckin' lazy bees.



		dumbjanitor (Hive Bee) 11-12-04 06:32 No 541173				just keep it on the d.L.
						well, psychokitty i'm an absoulute dumb ass and I am slowly begining to comprehend most everything i'm interested in, seriously i'm dumb compared to everyone else here. It is not to hard, I didn't even graduate junior high. Second, "- spreading the idea of making drugs at home to even more people; the more people involved, the more dumbfucks will be involved, and even today I think these dangerously outnumber the well educated + dedicated elite"- Thats one hundered percent true. Say I, a dumbfuck just bought a ts3 instead of slowly and steadily digesting all the information on rhodium's and this site, just thought hey this is all it!, and started somthing and fuck myself up, or worse somone else. Granted, people without a braincell shouldn't start this stuff, but they will, and they will kill someone else, then a copy of ts3 will be found, then it will be all over the news, it will be linked to this site, more news coverage to this site, and then the pharm markers will reformulate, IT'S JUST TO MUCH TROUBLE!! I've seen the attitude around here that the hive is untouchable, well I pray every time I go to this site that its still up.



		Unobtainium (Minister of Propaganda) 11-12-04 09:01 No 541194				Our operatives would take care of you long...
						Our operatives would take care of you long before the police did. Idiots got their hands on the first TS books too. We're still here.



		Xaja (Hive Bee) 11-12-04 10:34 No 541203				Aye aye
						I kindly volunteer for service as an operative, it sounds quite amusing tee hee... Yup in greatest traditions of net drug chem SWIX, for one, votes for TSIII to go ahead... LONG LIVE THE HIVE!!! Oh man I off for another beer... *Xaja feels toasted as fuck FriedPiper** I love BUSH! The pussy, not the President!!



		Anansi (Hive Bee) 11-13-04 11:31 No 541360				Brilliant Idea!
						Brilliant idea, psychokitty! I'd be more than happy to volunteer to help with the work involved, be that collating info to form chapters or proofreading the final drafts. ...Anansi



		weedar (Gaylord) 11-13-04 18:38 No 541405				slightly off topic
						I've been trying to get a hold of Total Synthesis I for ages (not for the contents, I'm a pack-rat), but I can't seem to find it anywhere. Can anyone reccomend places I should look? (like good second-hand webshops, etc..) "seriously thishomo internet shit needs to stop" -mcrandom



		dumbjanitor (Hive Bee) 11-14-04 16:26 No 541519				TS1
						I found that amazon has TS1, but when you click on it it shows a picture of ts2 for description. But when you look ay both copyright dates, ts1-97', ts2-99'. So.... I'm too paranoid to order anything off that site anyways, look at some of the commentary for the books, its like a open letter to the dea.



		Bwiti (PVC-Analog Taste-Tester) 11-14-04 19:41 No 541539				Total Synthesis 2
						I've been slowly copying T.S.2 and converting every page into JPGs.. If anyone is interested in having this, just tell me and I'll put a rush on it. At some point, I'd like to convert them to a large Acrobat file. Love My Country, Fear My Government



		karl (Hive Bee) 11-14-04 20:30 No 541546				There is already a djvu version of TSII ...
						There is already a djvu version of TSII available on the emule/eDonkey network at about 2MB. Fuck the creationists - MC Hawking

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