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All 22 posts Subject: Chronic fatigue Please login to post Thread expires Down

superman
(Hive Bee)
11-07-04 22:55
No 540249
      Chronic fatigue

I'm almost always tired and was just wondering what other bees do when confronted with fatigue.   there are many 'smart drugs' that sound promising, anybee had experience?

What i'd really like to find is a stimulant with sustainble effects. adrafinil was great for a while, beat meth hands down while it lasted. heroin does the trick too but i refrain from using this theraputically for the same reasons as meth.

My doc is fairly compliant so i should be able to get whatever canadian prescription drug i want.   trying effexor (an SNRI) right now.   the stimulation is far too subtle for my liking, and though i don't need the seratonergic activity it's kind of hillarious at times.

any input would be greatly appreciated :)

MargaretThatcher
(Hive Bee)
11-07-04 22:58
No 540251
User Picture       No magic cure

except a healthy life. Eat well, sleep well and exercise.

Are you, or have you ever been a Liberal? YES / NO

jsorex
(Hive Addict)
11-07-04 23:00
No 540252
      Excercise! It helped me.

Excercise! It helped me. It sounds paradoxical almost but it is true.

MarleyBob
(Hive Addict)
11-07-04 23:03
No 540256
      No drugs

Whenever swimb indulges in amphetamines excessively he always seems to be tired for a few days afterwards.

Read the post above mine for the best advice. More drugs in the system just sucks!

It's a wrong but I want it to be right.

superman
(Hive Bee)
11-07-04 23:29
No 540266
      historically excercise has helped but only...

historically excercise has helped but only marginally. for a while i'd go for a good roller-blade every morning but this quickly stopped working. as of yet i've found nothing that improved my quality of life to the extent that adrafinil did. all day every day,   total mental clarity, energy to pursue my hobbies and perform my household duties.

friday i worked for 4 hours to help a family member,   when i got home i was mentally wasted.   i feel good after excercise, but it just seems to further deplete me energy.

noradrenergics have had the greatest affect on my as of yet.   does anybee have experience with sustainable NA drugs besides adrafinil? is modafinil worth the outrageous price?

methyl_ethyl
(Guardian)
11-07-04 23:53
No 540269
User Picture       Yes

is modafinil worth the outrageous price?

Yes, it is worth the $10.00 USD / month. Oh wait you must not live in the US.

I would still suggest trying it, the outrageous price may be worth it to you. I have been on it for ~2 or 3 years now, and know of no other drug that works as well (for what I am using it for).

You won't know until you try,

and try it you should,

m_e

   Unipolar Mania, It's good for life... laugh

buz
(Hive Bee)
11-08-04 01:01
No 540285
      stop jerking-off for 2 weeks

call me in the morning.

don't forget;
people eventually crap out.
you could bee crapping-out.

(dying of "old age" is nothing to bee ashamed of, they say)

Jade
(soccer mom)
11-08-04 01:21
No 540290
User Picture       Read this....

Even if you never read the comic book or watched the hopelessly low-production-value 1960s cartoon, chances are you've at least seen the image of Captain America – the slightly ridiculous looking superhero in a form-fitting, star-spangled bodysuit. If you're still hazy on "Cap," he was Steve Rogers, a 4-F weakling during World War II who, through the miracle of "modern science" (a "super soldier serum") became an Axis-smashing powerhouse – the pinnacle of human physical perfection and the ultimate American fighting-man.

In the 1940s comic, Rogers had taken part in a super-soldier experiment, thanks to the interventions of an Army general and a scientist in a secret government laboratory. He was to be the first of many American super-soldiers, but due to poor note-keeping methods and the efforts of a Nazi assassin, he became the sole recipient of the serum. Today, however, the dream of Captain America turns out to be alive and well – and lodged in the Pentagon. The U.S. military aims to succeed where those in the four-color comic book world failed. By using high technology and cutting edge biomedicine, the military hopes to create an entire army of Captain Americas – a fighting force devoid of "Steve Rogers" or any other "Joe Average," and made up instead of super-soldiers whose human-ness has been all but banished.

24-Hour Soldiers

The military has long been interested in creating an always-on, 24-hour fighting man. During the Vietnam War, the Army undertook extensive studies on the effects of sleep deprivation. At the time, however, all the military could offer was copious amounts of amphetamines to keep men wired for combat.

As in the Vietnam era, the military is again stretched thin and, with National Guard recruiting having fallen 12 percent below goal in the first three quarters of 2004, in need of troops. What better way to forestall future manpower crises than by creating two-for-the-price-of-one soldiers who never need to sleep?

To this end, the Department of Defense's blue-skies research outfit, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), currently has a "Preventing Sleep Deprivation Program." Its aim is to work on ways to enable a pilot "to fly continuously for 30 hours," Green Berets to carry out 48-72 hours of sustained activity, or "advancing ground troops [to] engage in weeks of combat operations with only 3 hours of sleep per night" – all without suffering from cognitive or psychomotor impairments.

Scientists in the military-industrial-academic complex are hard at work for DARPA on this line of research. At Wake Forest University, for instance, researchers are studying a class of medicines known as "Ampakines" which are thought to be protective against the cognitive deficits ordinarily associated with sleep deprivation. At Columbia University, new imaging technologies are being employed as part of a program to study the "neuro-protective and neuro-regenerative effects" of an anti-oxidant found in cocoa. (In low-tech World War II, they just gave the grunts chocolate bars.) Who's conducting this line of research for DARPA? Why, researchers at the Salk Institute and also at that all-chocolate-all-the-time company Mars Inc. – yes, the folks who bring you M&M's and Snickers!

At the same time, the Air Force Research Laboratory's Warfighter Fatigue Countermeasure program is looking into a drug known as Modafinil which can reportedly keep people awake for up to 88 hours without sleep; while researchers at the Naval Health Research Center (NHRC), the Space and Naval Warfare Systems Center (SPAWAR), the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, and the U.S. Army Aeromedical Research Laboratory, among others, are working on sleep- (or-lack-thereof)-related projects.

http://www.alternet.org/story/20201/

There's a terrorist behind every Bush.

methyl_ethyl
(Guardian)
11-08-04 01:36
No 540296
User Picture       Related

Related: I think this post covers some of the military usage, and sleep deprivation/flight simulation studies.

Post 447512 (methyl_ethyl: "Modafinil studies on sleep deprivation.", General Discourse)

UTFSE, under my name and modafinil, in addition to general modafinil queries in the FSE, for more information.

regards,

m_e

   Unipolar Mania, It's good for life... laugh

superman
(Hive Bee)
11-08-04 03:53
No 540332
      M_E: $10/month?!??!?!?!?!?

M_E:    $10/month?!??!?!?!?!? i had priced it at $300/month..... where do you get it?   i'm in canada,   does anyone know where i can get canadian retail costs?

the doc already said he'd let me try this stuff, but i assumed it would be the same price as online.

buz;   i'm not crapping out yet.   i'm in my early 20s :)

hasn't anyone tried any of the compounds sold by anti-aging compainies?
deprenyl, vinpocetine, acetyl-l-carnitine, ATP, pregnenolone, piracetam, the list goes on forvever with promising drugs.

lilbumper
(Newbee)
11-08-04 04:03
No 540335
      I live in the US and

I live in the US and have only paid $10/month while on health insurance. Now no insurance = about $347/month (200mg x 60 pills)

But to answer your question is it worth it. In my opinion yes. I guess it all depends on the person.

lilbumper

methyl_ethyl
(Guardian)
11-08-04 04:14
No 540339
User Picture       Correct

Yes ~$300.00 USD / 30 day supply sounds correct if you pay cash.

In the US we have "health insurance" which allows us to pay a certain amount of money each week, I pay ~$10.00 / week for very good health insurance that affords me to purchase modafinil at $10.00 for a thirty day supply. Unfortunately most of the country is plagued with un-affordable health insurance and the benefit from participating in such plans allows them to purchase modafinil for ~100.00 per month after jumping through many hoops and being referred to several doctors, and having to fail a pre-planned battery of generic drugs first. I won't go on a rant about health insurance, but yes your estimate is correct if you pay cash for the modafinil.

m_e

   Unipolar Mania, It's good for life... laugh

paranoid
(Quick-witted Quibbler)
11-08-04 05:21
No 540354
User Picture       In the US we have "health insurance"

"In the US we have "health insurance" which allows us to pay a certain amount of money each week..."

In Canada we don't need no stinking insurance to be able to afford to see a doctor - we've got universal healthcare tongue

Unfortunately, drugs are not covered by healthcare unless deemed necessary for life and you is dirt-ass poor, and even this is not then not always the case.

However, private health insurance coverage for drugs is widely available here in Canada too, and most decent places of employment offer good drug reimbursement plans. My teaching assistantship here for example offers me significant coverage on drugs (although I'll be darned if I know what it is up front - maybe around 80% coverage?).

My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).

maj
(Hive Bee)
11-08-04 12:42
No 540413
User Picture       Speedy

You are fatigued if you ingest methaphetamine because you are going way fucking faster than you beleive. I totally agree with the drug supplementation. However that is not what I am posting about. Have you ever smoked some dope and then felt that arggggh ... fuck I feel lazy feeling. It is because your body is actually moving so fast it is exhausting itself in a short durationed time period. So you want the fatigue to go away I would suggest cleaning your system out of all drugs, exercising, and while your not doing what you synthesis put it in something, save it . Once you feel better about your health and fatigue is no longer a problem to you.........SPlurge. You know we all have to conserve are health that is more important than any thing else.

Your body is your temple . Your gonna have that temple for another 60 + years.

I took the one less traveled by,And that has made all the difference.

ChemoSabe
(Hive Addict)
11-08-04 16:31
No 540451
User Picture       Naming Diseases is what Spreads Them

Item #1

Although there are some indidividuals that truly suffer from something much like what the condition of "chronic fatigue" is, for the most part the people who have chosen to adopt this name to describe their own state are simply bored as hell and fed up with their own life situation.

These folks can usually chase the self induced condition away for good if they can just find something new that they have a strong interest in or a decent spark of passion for and then sink themselves whole heartedly into that interest/activity. But most just stay the same lazy fucks that they've become addicted to being and just continue on in their habitual daily grind.

Item #2

Sometimes that point where you intake yet another jolt of stimulant and it actually makes you feel a wave of sedation rather than stimulus is when you've burned up your body's available glycogen. That's the body equivalent of running out of gas. If you get to this point no matter how much more stimulant you take it ain't gonna do jack. The cure for it is to simply eat some food. Only after you eat will you sense how much stimulant you've got in your system. But I'm sure some of you have seen idiots who aren't clued to this and sit and smoke or snort up a 1/4 gram (or more) and can't comprehend why they are still yawning.

can't flush this

paranoid
(Quick-witted Quibbler)
11-08-04 21:34
No 540480
User Picture       IMHO, likely the majority of chronic fatigue...

IMHO, likely the majority of chronic fatigue symptoms are psychosomatically based. Being able to get out of the general apathetic funk that often brings on the feeling of constant fatigue is key.

This is generally best accomplished by the incorporation of regular exercise and having work to complete that you both enjoy and are able to make noticable progress with. Make and visit friends, and avoid alcohol/drug use.

Makes a world of difference.

My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).

methyl_ethyl
(Guardian)
11-09-04 03:42
No 540556
User Picture       Ha

In Canada we don't need no stinking insurance to be able to afford to see a doctor - we've got universal healthcare

How's that workin for ya?

Hmmm. I feel a little bit out of aligniment, I think I will call my chiropractor and demand an appointment tommorow, or Fuck, I ran out of concerta, best show up at my psychiatrists first thing in the mornin to pick up a script, or damn my back hurts like hell, I think I may need some oxycodone, I guess I will stop by my physicians tommorow during lunch. Best $10.00 I ever spent. How quickly and how much would it cost for you to see a doctor?

granted, there is much variability between personal health benefits in the US, however as long as you are not involved in an HMO I think the health benefit has to be better than Canada, for the small amount of money that costs to be involved with a proper health insurance provider.

That being said, they are all criminals.....

m_e

   Unipolar Mania, It's good for life... laugh

fierceness
(Hive Addict)
11-09-04 04:35
No 540573
      B12 shots are indicated for chronic fatigue...

B12 shots are indicated for chronic fatigue syndrome in some cases. Ask your doc.

kingsofsleep
(Hive Addict)
11-09-04 04:50
No 540577
User Picture       not always

How's that workin for ya?

A bit smug dontcha think?

Or have you been swallowing all the usual propaganda being spewed out by your party?

Universal health care isn't the bugaboo that we want to make it. Personally I would welcome such a chance as I haven't been insured for some 15 yrs now.
I worked in restaurants before I was in real estate and neither industry has any sort of benefits.
There are far too many abuses of power in our current system. Not to mention the fact that doctors aren't always the ones making important patient care decisions. Insurers should not be in charge of life or death decisions.
I know several pre-med students who changed their minds about med school in light of the conditions for doctors in this country. They are slaves to the insurers.

Maybe some of the oz bees can answer this better but from what I have heard, their universal health care system is quite good. Appointments are easy to come by and the care is excellent.

Cui peccare licet peccat minus - One who is allowed to sin, sins less. (Ovid)

paranoid
(Quick-witted Quibbler)
11-09-04 06:51
No 540598
User Picture       "A bit smug dontcha think?

"A bit smug dontcha think?

Or have you been swallowing all the usual propaganda being spewed out by your party?"

I don't think she meant it all that derogatory-like. Just some good natured dick waving wink

" How quickly and how much would it cost for you to see a doctor?"

Cost? Free. Zip, zero, zilch. How quickly? Depends on the severity of the problem and whether I have a family doctor or not. If not, and the problem is not serious, possibly a couple of weeks. But I can go to a walk-in clinic and see someone that day if necessary. I may have to wait all day, but I can get in.

"Hmmm. I feel a little bit out of aligniment, I think I will call my chiropractor and demand an appointment tommorow, or Fuck, I ran out of concerta, best show up at my psychiatrists first thing in the mornin to pick up a script, or damn my back hurts like hell, I think I may need some oxycodone, I guess I will stop by my physicians tommorow during lunch. Best $10.00 I ever spent."

See, here's the major difference in perspective between a Canadian and an American when it comes to health. I don't think, or expect that I should be able to walk into a doctor's office and get pills I really don't need to take care of problems that are best solved without them. If I have an emergency, I go to the emergency room at the local hospital. If it's urgent (i.e. heart attack, stroke, severe bleeding, etc) I get taken care of immediately, and completely for free.

If it's not overly urgent, I may have to wait for up to a few hours before getting looked at (generally not that long), and I'll get treated for free and receive some pain killers and/or antibiotics if necessary. If I need more, I get a prescription, and because most common drugs here are significantly cheaper than in the USA, it doesn't break the bank to afford them.

Chiropractors are not really covered here anymore, now that the government has decided the treatments are half-quackery (as is sometimes true) and whatnot. If I have long term back problems, I see a physio-therapist which is either partially or completely covered depending on the severity of the problem.

Dental is not covered, but is typically much cheaper here than there. It is also generally the first thing covered by most work health insurance plans here. Mine covers 80% of costs up to $2000 a year or something to that effect.

Still feeling smug? wink

My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).

MargaretThatcher
(Hive Bee)
11-09-04 12:46
No 540629
User Picture       Myth: The U.S. has the best health care system

Myth: The U.S. has the best health care system in the world.

Fact: The U.S. has among the worst health statistics of all rich nations.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-healthcare.htm

Are you, or have you ever been a Liberal? YES / NO

Osmium
(Stoni's sexual toy)
11-09-04 14:32
No 540643
User Picture       Ouch. 20 years ago Americans had one of the...

Ouch.

20 years ago Americans had one of the highest life expectancies worldwide. Today, American females rank 19th and males 28th.
Life expectancy of poor Americans is lower than that of Bangladesh:

http://www.bc.edu/centers/crr/issues/ib_21.pdf
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0%2C6903%2C1307825%2C00.html

BUSH/CHENEY 2004! After all, it ain't my country!
www.american-buddha.com/addict.war.1.htm

	https://the-hive.archive.erowid.org	the-hive@erowid.org



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	All 22 posts		Subject: Chronic fatigue		Please login to post		Thread expires		Down


		superman (Hive Bee) 11-07-04 22:55 No 540249				Chronic fatigue
						I'm almost always tired and was just wondering what other bees do when confronted with fatigue. there are many 'smart drugs' that sound promising, anybee had experience? What i'd really like to find is a stimulant with sustainble effects. adrafinil was great for a while, beat meth hands down while it lasted. heroin does the trick too but i refrain from using this theraputically for the same reasons as meth. My doc is fairly compliant so i should be able to get whatever canadian prescription drug i want. trying effexor (an SNRI) right now. the stimulation is far too subtle for my liking, and though i don't need the seratonergic activity it's kind of hillarious at times. any input would be greatly appreciated :)



		MargaretThatcher (Hive Bee) 11-07-04 22:58 No 540251				No magic cure
						except a healthy life. Eat well, sleep well and exercise. Are you, or have you ever been a Liberal? YES / NO



		jsorex (Hive Addict) 11-07-04 23:00 No 540252				Excercise! It helped me.
						Excercise! It helped me. It sounds paradoxical almost but it is true.



		MarleyBob (Hive Addict) 11-07-04 23:03 No 540256				No drugs
						Whenever swimb indulges in amphetamines excessively he always seems to be tired for a few days afterwards. Read the post above mine for the best advice. More drugs in the system just sucks! It's a wrong but I want it to be right.



		superman (Hive Bee) 11-07-04 23:29 No 540266				historically excercise has helped but only...
						historically excercise has helped but only marginally. for a while i'd go for a good roller-blade every morning but this quickly stopped working. as of yet i've found nothing that improved my quality of life to the extent that adrafinil did. all day every day, total mental clarity, energy to pursue my hobbies and perform my household duties. friday i worked for 4 hours to help a family member, when i got home i was mentally wasted. i feel good after excercise, but it just seems to further deplete me energy. noradrenergics have had the greatest affect on my as of yet. does anybee have experience with sustainable NA drugs besides adrafinil? is modafinil worth the outrageous price?



		methyl_ethyl (Guardian) 11-07-04 23:53 No 540269				Yes
						is modafinil worth the outrageous price? Yes, it is worth the $10.00 USD / month. Oh wait you must not live in the US. I would still suggest trying it, the outrageous price may be worth it to you. I have been on it for ~2 or 3 years now, and know of no other drug that works as well (for what I am using it for). You won't know until you try, and try it you should, m_e Unipolar Mania, It's good for life...



		buz (Hive Bee) 11-08-04 01:01 No 540285				stop jerking-off for 2 weeks
						call me in the morning. don't forget; people eventually crap out. you could bee crapping-out. (dying of "old age" is nothing to bee ashamed of, they say)



		Jade (soccer mom) 11-08-04 01:21 No 540290				Read this....
						Even if you never read the comic book or watched the hopelessly low-production-value 1960s cartoon, chances are you've at least seen the image of Captain America – the slightly ridiculous looking superhero in a form-fitting, star-spangled bodysuit. If you're still hazy on "Cap," he was Steve Rogers, a 4-F weakling during World War II who, through the miracle of "modern science" (a "super soldier serum") became an Axis-smashing powerhouse – the pinnacle of human physical perfection and the ultimate American fighting-man. In the 1940s comic, Rogers had taken part in a super-soldier experiment, thanks to the interventions of an Army general and a scientist in a secret government laboratory. He was to be the first of many American super-soldiers, but due to poor note-keeping methods and the efforts of a Nazi assassin, he became the sole recipient of the serum. Today, however, the dream of Captain America turns out to be alive and well – and lodged in the Pentagon. The U.S. military aims to succeed where those in the four-color comic book world failed. By using high technology and cutting edge biomedicine, the military hopes to create an entire army of Captain Americas – a fighting force devoid of "Steve Rogers" or any other "Joe Average," and made up instead of super-soldiers whose human-ness has been all but banished. 24-Hour Soldiers The military has long been interested in creating an always-on, 24-hour fighting man. During the Vietnam War, the Army undertook extensive studies on the effects of sleep deprivation. At the time, however, all the military could offer was copious amounts of amphetamines to keep men wired for combat. As in the Vietnam era, the military is again stretched thin and, with National Guard recruiting having fallen 12 percent below goal in the first three quarters of 2004, in need of troops. What better way to forestall future manpower crises than by creating two-for-the-price-of-one soldiers who never need to sleep? To this end, the Department of Defense's blue-skies research outfit, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), currently has a "Preventing Sleep Deprivation Program." Its aim is to work on ways to enable a pilot "to fly continuously for 30 hours," Green Berets to carry out 48-72 hours of sustained activity, or "advancing ground troops [to] engage in weeks of combat operations with only 3 hours of sleep per night" – all without suffering from cognitive or psychomotor impairments. Scientists in the military-industrial-academic complex are hard at work for DARPA on this line of research. At Wake Forest University, for instance, researchers are studying a class of medicines known as "Ampakines" which are thought to be protective against the cognitive deficits ordinarily associated with sleep deprivation. At Columbia University, new imaging technologies are being employed as part of a program to study the "neuro-protective and neuro-regenerative effects" of an anti-oxidant found in cocoa. (In low-tech World War II, they just gave the grunts chocolate bars.) Who's conducting this line of research for DARPA? Why, researchers at the Salk Institute and also at that all-chocolate-all-the-time company Mars Inc. – yes, the folks who bring you M&M's and Snickers! At the same time, the Air Force Research Laboratory's Warfighter Fatigue Countermeasure program is looking into a drug known as Modafinil which can reportedly keep people awake for up to 88 hours without sleep; while researchers at the Naval Health Research Center (NHRC), the Space and Naval Warfare Systems Center (SPAWAR), the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, and the U.S. Army Aeromedical Research Laboratory, among others, are working on sleep- (or-lack-thereof)-related projects. http://www.alternet.org/story/20201/ There's a terrorist behind every Bush.



		methyl_ethyl (Guardian) 11-08-04 01:36 No 540296				Related
						Related: I think this post covers some of the military usage, and sleep deprivation/flight simulation studies. Post 447512 (methyl_ethyl: "Modafinil studies on sleep deprivation.", General Discourse) UTFSE, under my name and modafinil, in addition to general modafinil queries in the FSE, for more information. regards, m_e Unipolar Mania, It's good for life...



		superman (Hive Bee) 11-08-04 03:53 No 540332				M_E: $10/month?!??!?!?!?!?
						M_E: $10/month?!??!?!?!?!? i had priced it at $300/month..... where do you get it? i'm in canada, does anyone know where i can get canadian retail costs? the doc already said he'd let me try this stuff, but i assumed it would be the same price as online. buz; i'm not crapping out yet. i'm in my early 20s :) hasn't anyone tried any of the compounds sold by anti-aging compainies? deprenyl, vinpocetine, acetyl-l-carnitine, ATP, pregnenolone, piracetam, the list goes on forvever with promising drugs.



		lilbumper (Newbee) 11-08-04 04:03 No 540335				I live in the US and
						I live in the US and have only paid $10/month while on health insurance. Now no insurance = about $347/month (200mg x 60 pills) But to answer your question is it worth it. In my opinion yes. I guess it all depends on the person. lilbumper



		methyl_ethyl (Guardian) 11-08-04 04:14 No 540339				Correct
						Yes ~$300.00 USD / 30 day supply sounds correct if you pay cash. In the US we have "health insurance" which allows us to pay a certain amount of money each week, I pay ~$10.00 / week for very good health insurance that affords me to purchase modafinil at $10.00 for a thirty day supply. Unfortunately most of the country is plagued with un-affordable health insurance and the benefit from participating in such plans allows them to purchase modafinil for ~100.00 per month after jumping through many hoops and being referred to several doctors, and having to fail a pre-planned battery of generic drugs first. I won't go on a rant about health insurance, but yes your estimate is correct if you pay cash for the modafinil. m_e Unipolar Mania, It's good for life...



		paranoid (Quick-witted Quibbler) 11-08-04 05:21 No 540354				In the US we have "health insurance"
						"In the US we have "health insurance" which allows us to pay a certain amount of money each week..." In Canada we don't need no stinking insurance to be able to afford to see a doctor - we've got universal healthcare Unfortunately, drugs are not covered by healthcare unless deemed necessary for life and you is dirt-ass poor, and even this is not then not always the case. However, private health insurance coverage for drugs is widely available here in Canada too, and most decent places of employment offer good drug reimbursement plans. My teaching assistantship here for example offers me significant coverage on drugs (although I'll be darned if I know what it is up front - maybe around 80% coverage?). My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).



		maj (Hive Bee) 11-08-04 12:42 No 540413				Speedy
						You are fatigued if you ingest methaphetamine because you are going way fucking faster than you beleive. I totally agree with the drug supplementation. However that is not what I am posting about. Have you ever smoked some dope and then felt that arggggh ... fuck I feel lazy feeling. It is because your body is actually moving so fast it is exhausting itself in a short durationed time period. So you want the fatigue to go away I would suggest cleaning your system out of all drugs, exercising, and while your not doing what you synthesis put it in something, save it . Once you feel better about your health and fatigue is no longer a problem to you.........SPlurge. You know we all have to conserve are health that is more important than any thing else. Your body is your temple . Your gonna have that temple for another 60 + years. I took the one less traveled by,And that has made all the difference.



		ChemoSabe (Hive Addict) 11-08-04 16:31 No 540451				Naming Diseases is what Spreads Them
						Item #1 Although there are some indidividuals that truly suffer from something much like what the condition of "chronic fatigue" is, for the most part the people who have chosen to adopt this name to describe their own state are simply bored as hell and fed up with their own life situation. These folks can usually chase the self induced condition away for good if they can just find something new that they have a strong interest in or a decent spark of passion for and then sink themselves whole heartedly into that interest/activity. But most just stay the same lazy fucks that they've become addicted to being and just continue on in their habitual daily grind. Item #2 Sometimes that point where you intake yet another jolt of stimulant and it actually makes you feel a wave of sedation rather than stimulus is when you've burned up your body's available glycogen. That's the body equivalent of running out of gas. If you get to this point no matter how much more stimulant you take it ain't gonna do jack. The cure for it is to simply eat some food. Only after you eat will you sense how much stimulant you've got in your system. But I'm sure some of you have seen idiots who aren't clued to this and sit and smoke or snort up a 1/4 gram (or more) and can't comprehend why they are still yawning. can't flush this



		paranoid (Quick-witted Quibbler) 11-08-04 21:34 No 540480				IMHO, likely the majority of chronic fatigue...
						IMHO, likely the majority of chronic fatigue symptoms are psychosomatically based. Being able to get out of the general apathetic funk that often brings on the feeling of constant fatigue is key. This is generally best accomplished by the incorporation of regular exercise and having work to complete that you both enjoy and are able to make noticable progress with. Make and visit friends, and avoid alcohol/drug use. Makes a world of difference. My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).



		methyl_ethyl (Guardian) 11-09-04 03:42 No 540556				Ha
						In Canada we don't need no stinking insurance to be able to afford to see a doctor - we've got universal healthcare How's that workin for ya? Hmmm. I feel a little bit out of aligniment, I think I will call my chiropractor and demand an appointment tommorow, or Fuck, I ran out of concerta, best show up at my psychiatrists first thing in the mornin to pick up a script, or damn my back hurts like hell, I think I may need some oxycodone, I guess I will stop by my physicians tommorow during lunch. Best $10.00 I ever spent. How quickly and how much would it cost for you to see a doctor? granted, there is much variability between personal health benefits in the US, however as long as you are not involved in an HMO I think the health benefit has to be better than Canada, for the small amount of money that costs to be involved with a proper health insurance provider. That being said, they are all criminals..... m_e Unipolar Mania, It's good for life...



		fierceness (Hive Addict) 11-09-04 04:35 No 540573				B12 shots are indicated for chronic fatigue...
						B12 shots are indicated for chronic fatigue syndrome in some cases. Ask your doc.



		kingsofsleep (Hive Addict) 11-09-04 04:50 No 540577				not always
						How's that workin for ya? A bit smug dontcha think? Or have you been swallowing all the usual propaganda being spewed out by your party? Universal health care isn't the bugaboo that we want to make it. Personally I would welcome such a chance as I haven't been insured for some 15 yrs now. I worked in restaurants before I was in real estate and neither industry has any sort of benefits. There are far too many abuses of power in our current system. Not to mention the fact that doctors aren't always the ones making important patient care decisions. Insurers should not be in charge of life or death decisions. I know several pre-med students who changed their minds about med school in light of the conditions for doctors in this country. They are slaves to the insurers. Maybe some of the oz bees can answer this better but from what I have heard, their universal health care system is quite good. Appointments are easy to come by and the care is excellent. Cui peccare licet peccat minus - One who is allowed to sin, sins less. (Ovid)



		paranoid (Quick-witted Quibbler) 11-09-04 06:51 No 540598				"A bit smug dontcha think?
						"A bit smug dontcha think? Or have you been swallowing all the usual propaganda being spewed out by your party?" I don't think she meant it all that derogatory-like. Just some good natured dick waving " How quickly and how much would it cost for you to see a doctor?" Cost? Free. Zip, zero, zilch. How quickly? Depends on the severity of the problem and whether I have a family doctor or not. If not, and the problem is not serious, possibly a couple of weeks. But I can go to a walk-in clinic and see someone that day if necessary. I may have to wait all day, but I can get in. "Hmmm. I feel a little bit out of aligniment, I think I will call my chiropractor and demand an appointment tommorow, or Fuck, I ran out of concerta, best show up at my psychiatrists first thing in the mornin to pick up a script, or damn my back hurts like hell, I think I may need some oxycodone, I guess I will stop by my physicians tommorow during lunch. Best $10.00 I ever spent." See, here's the major difference in perspective between a Canadian and an American when it comes to health. I don't think, or expect that I should be able to walk into a doctor's office and get pills I really don't need to take care of problems that are best solved without them. If I have an emergency, I go to the emergency room at the local hospital. If it's urgent (i.e. heart attack, stroke, severe bleeding, etc) I get taken care of immediately, and completely for free. If it's not overly urgent, I may have to wait for up to a few hours before getting looked at (generally not that long), and I'll get treated for free and receive some pain killers and/or antibiotics if necessary. If I need more, I get a prescription, and because most common drugs here are significantly cheaper than in the USA, it doesn't break the bank to afford them. Chiropractors are not really covered here anymore, now that the government has decided the treatments are half-quackery (as is sometimes true) and whatnot. If I have long term back problems, I see a physio-therapist which is either partially or completely covered depending on the severity of the problem. Dental is not covered, but is typically much cheaper here than there. It is also generally the first thing covered by most work health insurance plans here. Mine covers 80% of costs up to $2000 a year or something to that effect. Still feeling smug? My ideal vacation - Juxtaposed along the precipice intersecting reality and fantasy (i.e. wanking).



		MargaretThatcher (Hive Bee) 11-09-04 12:46 No 540629				Myth: The U.S. has the best health care system
						Myth: The U.S. has the best health care system in the world. Fact: The U.S. has among the worst health statistics of all rich nations. http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-healthcare.htm Are you, or have you ever been a Liberal? YES / NO



		Osmium (Stoni's sexual toy) 11-09-04 14:32 No 540643				Ouch. 20 years ago Americans had one of the...
						Ouch. 20 years ago Americans had one of the highest life expectancies worldwide. Today, American females rank 19th and males 28th. Life expectancy of poor Americans is lower than that of Bangladesh: http://www.bc.edu/centers/crr/issues/ib_21.pdf http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0%2C6903%2C1307825%2C00.html BUSH/CHENEY 2004! After all, it ain't my country! www.american-buddha.com/addict.war.1.htm

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