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Unobtainium
(Minister of Propaganda)
11-08-04 08:27
No 540386
User Picture       bet on the pope

Place your bets on who the next pope will be.

http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action=show_type_by_main_market&category=SPECIALS&ev_class_id=45&id=520

Speculation abounds on next pontiff

By Liz Sly Tribune foreign correspondent

Not only is it considered unseemly to speculate about who the next pope might be, it is also against Vatican (news - web sites) law.

But that hasn't stopped an online Irish bookmaker from taking bets on likely candidates.

According to odds offered by Dublin-based Paddypower.com, the clear favorite at 2-1 is Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi, whose appointment two years ago as archbishop of Milan was seen as an endorsement of his candidacy by Pope John Paul (news - web sites) II. Several previous popes came from the Milan archdiocese, Italy's largest.

He is closely followed by Cardinal Claudio Hummes, the Brazilian archbishop of Sao Paulo, and Nigeria's Francis Arinze, who at 3-1 lead the rest of the pack of candidates tipped to succeed history's third-longest-serving pope.

After that, the field widens to include 30 "papabile," the Italian word used to describe papal candidates, which roughly translates as "popeable."

Evidently, betting on the papacy isn't new. Pope Gregory XIV made it an excommunicable offense in 1591, suggesting it has been going on for at least a few centuries.

Paddy Power, spokesman for Paddy Power and the son of the company's founder, said he didn't know about the law and that no disrespect was intended.

"It's a bit of fun," he said from Dublin, where the bookmaker also runs a chain of Irish betting outlets.

"The way we think about it is, it's a bit like betting on who will be the next manager of the Irish soccer team, except that it's who next will manage the church," he said.

"It would be in bad taste if we bet directly on his health. But this is something that will happen. There will be a new pope, we just don't know when. We like to take bets on anything in the public eye."

Most recently, Paddy Power correctly called the U.S. election; the site had President Bush (news - web sites) as the 4-7 favorite at least a month before Election Day.

The question of who will fill the shoes of Pope John Paul II is far trickier, however. There are 123 cardinals eligible to vote in the conclave that will elect his successor, and all also are potential candidates. In theory, anyone can be pope, though in practice cardinals always choose one of their own.

Campaigning is frowned upon even after the death of a pope, and mere discussion of the subject by Vatican officials while the reigning pope is alive is forbidden.

Pope John Paul II, though 84 and weakened by Parkinson's disease (news - web sites), still has a busy schedule of audiences and masses, addresses pilgrims in multiple languages, remains active in papal affairs and has outlasted several former contenders.

Favorites traditionally fare badly, hence the Vatican saying: "He who goes into the conclave a pope comes out a cardinal."

`A fool's game'

"There are no front-runners," said Father Thomas Reese, editor of the Catholic magazine America. "Picking names is a fool's game. Picking qualities and types is all you can do."

The names on the Paddy Power list nonetheless provide a rough, if unscientific, guide to who's in and who's out in the stakes for the papacy, a subject of intense debate among Vatican watchers.

Tettamanzi is on most Vatican watchers' top 10 list, said John Allen, the National Catholic Reporter's Vatican correspondent. But if the next pope is to be Italian, he would rate higher the prospects of Cardinal Angelo Scola, archbishop of Venice, given odds of 12-1 by Paddy Power. "He's more charismatic and speaks several languages," Allen said.

Marco Politi, the veteran Vatican watcher at La Repubblica newspaper, leans toward candidates from the developing world, home to more than half the world's Catholics. A third live in Latin America, favoring the chances the next pope will come from that region.

He also would not rule out an Asian pope, such as Ivan Dias, archbishop of Bombay, who isn't on the Paddy Power list.

However, fewer than 40 percent of cardinals eligible to vote come from developing countries, while Europeans account for half, giving their candidates a likely edge.

Keith Pecklers, a professor at Rome's Pontifical Gregorian University, includes Godfried Danneels (20-1 on Paddy Power), a Belgian reformist, and Germany's Walter Kasper, who isn't ranked by Paddy Power, on his list of possibilities.

There's also a view that the next pope will need to attend to bureaucratic affairs neglected by the globe-trotting incumbent, he said. That would tend to favor an Italian who could navigate the Vatican bureaucracy. Karol Wojtyla was the first non-Italian Pope in 400 years, and Italy's cardinals, the biggest voting bloc, may lobby to bring the papacy back home.

Arinze, who, if elected, would become the first black pope, has long been a Paddy Power favorite, but Vatican experts say they don't rate his chances so highly because he is seen as too close to the Vatican bureaucracy.

The next pope must also be neither too young nor too old. Some think the current papacy, entering its 27th year, has lasted too long.

Age may work against other favorites such as Austria's Christoph von Schoenborn (12-1), who at 59 is just a year older than Wojtyla was when he became pope.

Desirable qualities

Reese won't name names, but he has come up with a list of qualities cardinals will be looking for. He will be age 62 to 72; speak English, Italian and probably several other languages; be well-traveled and cosmopolitan, and be capable of balancing the demands of traditionalists with the concerns of liberals.

These criteria appear to rule out many leading contenders, such as Cuba's Jaime Lucas Ortega y Alamino, a Paddy Power favorite at 11-2, La Repubblica's Politi said. At 68, he is the right age, but he has been unable to travel outside Cuba and may not have a sufficiently global outlook to satisfy the job's demands, which have grown significantly under the current papacy.

"It's hard to think of any person who could fill the space left by John Paul II, who is such a huge, charismatic personality," Politi said.

Paddy Power, the spokesman, claims no insights into candidates' chances. He suspects the odds are being driven mainly by patriotism; an Australian cardinal's odds dramatically improved after a local radio station launched a campaign encouraging listeners to place bets on him. Earlier this year, an English bishop denounced Paddy Power as "distasteful," prompting a flurry of bets that tended to favor two British cardinals.

About $19,000 has been wagered so far, mostly in amounts of about $100, Power said. A few bets have come from Rome, though none from anyone giving a Vatican address.

"There hasn't been any serious money from anyone in the know," he said. "If there was, we'd really sit up and take notice."

Who will die first. Pope Johnny P, or Arafat?

abominator
(Hive Bee)
11-08-04 13:57
No 540437
User Picture       Re: Pope vs. Arafat

My money is on the pope for outliving Arafat. I am not going to guess on the next pope, though I will say Arinze's chances are not that great.

Another little sip/ a bit deeper in debt
₆9

buz
(Hive Bee)
11-08-04 14:12
No 540440
      pope's been dead for months

dead figure-heads will soon bee all the rage.
with minimal robotics and bionics, the pope could bee an effective , infallible go-beetween for many more years.

maj
(Hive Bee)
11-08-04 14:24
No 540441
User Picture       I got 5 on it.

Yep, the new pope is gonna be none other than the Reverend Al Sharpton. Or Jesse Jackson depending on who Hillary is partial to when she takes over presidency. HAha shocked

I took the one less traveled by,And that has made all the difference.

maj
(Hive Bee)
11-09-04 12:23
No 540625
User Picture       looks like arafat trails

Arafat in a Coma, Condition Getting Worse

12 minutes ago

Add to My Yahoo! Middle East - AP

By LARA SUKHTIAN, Associated Press Writer

CLAMART, France - Yasser Arafat (news - web sites) is in a coma and his condition worsened overnight, a hospital spokesman said Tuesday, as Palestinian officials sought to visit their critically ill leader over his wife's angry objections.

Photo
AP Photo

AP Photo Photo
AP Photo
Slideshow Slideshow: Yasser Arafat

AP Video Palestinians Rally for Arafat in Ramallah
(AP Video)

The announcement by Gen. Christian Estripeau, spokesman for the Percy Military Training Hospital outside Paris, was the first time the French medical team treating Arafat publicly acknowledged that the 75-year-old is in a coma.

"President Yasser Arafat's health worsened in the night," said Estripeau. "His coma, which led to his admission to the intensive care unit, became deeper this morning."

Estripeau said doctors were withholding a prognosis but that his deterioration marked "a significant stage."

The announcement came amid a dramatic dispute between Arafat's wife, Suha, and Palestinian officials whom she accused of trying to usurp the veteran leader. The Palestinians, including top Arafat lieutenants Ahmed Qureia and Mahmoud Abbas, flew to Paris late Monday.

Escorted by police motorbikes, a convoy thought to be carrying the Palestinian delegation rushed to the hospital shortly after midday Tuesday.

The delegation asked to see Arafat and to meet with doctors treating him, said a Palestinian official in Paris who refused to be further identified.

He said the officials want a complete detailed report about Arafat's condition and to know exactly what is wrong with him. The official said that with the exception of Suha, the only person who has been able to see Arafat is his nephew Nasser Al-Kidwa — and that he was reported to have seen his uncle only once.

The Palestinians planned meetings throughout the day Tuesday with French officials, including President Jacques Chirac and Foreign Minister Michel Barnier.

But how close they would get to Arafat's bedside remained unclear.

Their trip was abruptly canceled but then rescheduled Monday after Arafat's wife accused them of wanting to usurp Arafat's four-decade-long role as Palestinian leader.

"I tell you they are trying to bury Abu Ammar alive," she shouted, using Arafat's nom de guerre, in a furious telephone call early Monday to Al-Jazeera television.

As next of kin, Suha Arafat has been controlling who has access to her ailing husband. "He is all right, and he is going home," she insisted.

A coma is a profound state of unconsciousness. Patients are alive but unable to move or respond to their environment. There are several levels of coma and patients may, or may not, progress through them. The responsiveness of the brain lessens as the coma deepens and when it becomes more profound, normal body reflexes are lost and the patient no longer responds even to pain.

The chances of recovery depend on the severity of the underlying cause. It is unclear whether a deeper coma alone necessarily means a slimmer chance of recovery because some people in deep coma recover well while others in a so-called milder coma sometimes fail to improve.

Suha Arafat's accusation outraged the Palestinian leadership and set the stage for a dramatic showdown that could inflame a tense power struggle between Arafat's longtime lieutenants and his wife.

Hospital officials said Monday that visiting rights were restricted. But French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier suggested Tuesday that the Palestinian delegation would be permitted to see Arafat, saying it was only "natural."

"All that will be decided at the hospital, with the doctors and the wife," Barnier told France-2 television.

Qureia, the Palestinian prime minister, and Abbas, a former prime minister and deputy chairman of Arafat's Palestine Liberation Organization (news - web sites), checked into a hotel a few miles from Arafat's hospital in southwest Paris. They were accompanied by Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath and Parliament Speaker Rauhi Fattouh.

Some Palestinians have complained Suha Arafat has gained too much power, as she controls the flow of information about her husband's condition and has taken charge of access to the ailing leader.

Palestinians have been making contingency plans in the event of Arafat's death.

Qureia has assumed some emergency financial and administrative powers. Abbas has chaired a series of meetings of the PLO executive committee. But neither politician has much grass-roots support among Palestinians or important militant groups.

Suha Arafat, his wife of 13 years and mother of his daughter, seems to have aligned herself with hard-liners who apparently seek to take over the Palestinian leadership in a post-Arafat era, though some Palestinian officials said her motives are more financial.

According to a senior official in Arafat's office, she has received monthly payments of $100,000 from Palestinian coffers and is widely believed to have control of vast funds collected by the PLO.

This year, French prosecutors launched a money-laundering probe into transfers of $11.4 million into her accounts. She has refused to talk to reporters about Palestinian finances. Suha Arafat, 41, lives in Paris and has not been to the West Bank or seen her husband since the latest round of Palestinian violence began in 2000.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=540&ncid=716&e=2&u=/ap/20041109/ap_on_re_mi_ea/arafat

I took the one less traveled by,And that has made all the difference.

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		Unobtainium (Minister of Propaganda) 11-08-04 08:27 No 540386				bet on the pope
						Place your bets on who the next pope will be. http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action=show_type_by_main_market&category=SPECIALS&ev_class_id=45&id=520 Speculation abounds on next pontiff By Liz Sly Tribune foreign correspondent Not only is it considered unseemly to speculate about who the next pope might be, it is also against Vatican (news - web sites) law. But that hasn't stopped an online Irish bookmaker from taking bets on likely candidates. According to odds offered by Dublin-based Paddypower.com, the clear favorite at 2-1 is Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi, whose appointment two years ago as archbishop of Milan was seen as an endorsement of his candidacy by Pope John Paul (news - web sites) II. Several previous popes came from the Milan archdiocese, Italy's largest. He is closely followed by Cardinal Claudio Hummes, the Brazilian archbishop of Sao Paulo, and Nigeria's Francis Arinze, who at 3-1 lead the rest of the pack of candidates tipped to succeed history's third-longest-serving pope. After that, the field widens to include 30 "papabile," the Italian word used to describe papal candidates, which roughly translates as "popeable." Evidently, betting on the papacy isn't new. Pope Gregory XIV made it an excommunicable offense in 1591, suggesting it has been going on for at least a few centuries. Paddy Power, spokesman for Paddy Power and the son of the company's founder, said he didn't know about the law and that no disrespect was intended. "It's a bit of fun," he said from Dublin, where the bookmaker also runs a chain of Irish betting outlets. "The way we think about it is, it's a bit like betting on who will be the next manager of the Irish soccer team, except that it's who next will manage the church," he said. "It would be in bad taste if we bet directly on his health. But this is something that will happen. There will be a new pope, we just don't know when. We like to take bets on anything in the public eye." Most recently, Paddy Power correctly called the U.S. election; the site had President Bush (news - web sites) as the 4-7 favorite at least a month before Election Day. The question of who will fill the shoes of Pope John Paul II is far trickier, however. There are 123 cardinals eligible to vote in the conclave that will elect his successor, and all also are potential candidates. In theory, anyone can be pope, though in practice cardinals always choose one of their own. Campaigning is frowned upon even after the death of a pope, and mere discussion of the subject by Vatican officials while the reigning pope is alive is forbidden. Pope John Paul II, though 84 and weakened by Parkinson's disease (news - web sites), still has a busy schedule of audiences and masses, addresses pilgrims in multiple languages, remains active in papal affairs and has outlasted several former contenders. Favorites traditionally fare badly, hence the Vatican saying: "He who goes into the conclave a pope comes out a cardinal." `A fool's game' "There are no front-runners," said Father Thomas Reese, editor of the Catholic magazine America. "Picking names is a fool's game. Picking qualities and types is all you can do." The names on the Paddy Power list nonetheless provide a rough, if unscientific, guide to who's in and who's out in the stakes for the papacy, a subject of intense debate among Vatican watchers. Tettamanzi is on most Vatican watchers' top 10 list, said John Allen, the National Catholic Reporter's Vatican correspondent. But if the next pope is to be Italian, he would rate higher the prospects of Cardinal Angelo Scola, archbishop of Venice, given odds of 12-1 by Paddy Power. "He's more charismatic and speaks several languages," Allen said. Marco Politi, the veteran Vatican watcher at La Repubblica newspaper, leans toward candidates from the developing world, home to more than half the world's Catholics. A third live in Latin America, favoring the chances the next pope will come from that region. He also would not rule out an Asian pope, such as Ivan Dias, archbishop of Bombay, who isn't on the Paddy Power list. However, fewer than 40 percent of cardinals eligible to vote come from developing countries, while Europeans account for half, giving their candidates a likely edge. Keith Pecklers, a professor at Rome's Pontifical Gregorian University, includes Godfried Danneels (20-1 on Paddy Power), a Belgian reformist, and Germany's Walter Kasper, who isn't ranked by Paddy Power, on his list of possibilities. There's also a view that the next pope will need to attend to bureaucratic affairs neglected by the globe-trotting incumbent, he said. That would tend to favor an Italian who could navigate the Vatican bureaucracy. Karol Wojtyla was the first non-Italian Pope in 400 years, and Italy's cardinals, the biggest voting bloc, may lobby to bring the papacy back home. Arinze, who, if elected, would become the first black pope, has long been a Paddy Power favorite, but Vatican experts say they don't rate his chances so highly because he is seen as too close to the Vatican bureaucracy. The next pope must also be neither too young nor too old. Some think the current papacy, entering its 27th year, has lasted too long. Age may work against other favorites such as Austria's Christoph von Schoenborn (12-1), who at 59 is just a year older than Wojtyla was when he became pope. Desirable qualities Reese won't name names, but he has come up with a list of qualities cardinals will be looking for. He will be age 62 to 72; speak English, Italian and probably several other languages; be well-traveled and cosmopolitan, and be capable of balancing the demands of traditionalists with the concerns of liberals. These criteria appear to rule out many leading contenders, such as Cuba's Jaime Lucas Ortega y Alamino, a Paddy Power favorite at 11-2, La Repubblica's Politi said. At 68, he is the right age, but he has been unable to travel outside Cuba and may not have a sufficiently global outlook to satisfy the job's demands, which have grown significantly under the current papacy. "It's hard to think of any person who could fill the space left by John Paul II, who is such a huge, charismatic personality," Politi said. Paddy Power, the spokesman, claims no insights into candidates' chances. He suspects the odds are being driven mainly by patriotism; an Australian cardinal's odds dramatically improved after a local radio station launched a campaign encouraging listeners to place bets on him. Earlier this year, an English bishop denounced Paddy Power as "distasteful," prompting a flurry of bets that tended to favor two British cardinals. About $19,000 has been wagered so far, mostly in amounts of about $100, Power said. A few bets have come from Rome, though none from anyone giving a Vatican address. "There hasn't been any serious money from anyone in the know," he said. "If there was, we'd really sit up and take notice." Who will die first. Pope Johnny P, or Arafat?



		abominator (Hive Bee) 11-08-04 13:57 No 540437				Re: Pope vs. Arafat
						My money is on the pope for outliving Arafat. I am not going to guess on the next pope, though I will say Arinze's chances are not that great. Another little sip/ a bit deeper in debt ₆9



		buz (Hive Bee) 11-08-04 14:12 No 540440				pope's been dead for months
						dead figure-heads will soon bee all the rage. with minimal robotics and bionics, the pope could bee an effective , infallible go-beetween for many more years.



		maj (Hive Bee) 11-08-04 14:24 No 540441				I got 5 on it.
						Yep, the new pope is gonna be none other than the Reverend Al Sharpton. Or Jesse Jackson depending on who Hillary is partial to when she takes over presidency. HAha I took the one less traveled by,And that has made all the difference.



		maj (Hive Bee) 11-09-04 12:23 No 540625				looks like arafat trails
						Arafat in a Coma, Condition Getting Worse 12 minutes ago Add to My Yahoo! Middle East - AP By LARA SUKHTIAN, Associated Press Writer CLAMART, France - Yasser Arafat (news - web sites) is in a coma and his condition worsened overnight, a hospital spokesman said Tuesday, as Palestinian officials sought to visit their critically ill leader over his wife's angry objections. Photo AP Photo AP Photo Photo AP Photo Slideshow Slideshow: Yasser Arafat AP Video Palestinians Rally for Arafat in Ramallah (AP Video) The announcement by Gen. Christian Estripeau, spokesman for the Percy Military Training Hospital outside Paris, was the first time the French medical team treating Arafat publicly acknowledged that the 75-year-old is in a coma. "President Yasser Arafat's health worsened in the night," said Estripeau. "His coma, which led to his admission to the intensive care unit, became deeper this morning." Estripeau said doctors were withholding a prognosis but that his deterioration marked "a significant stage." The announcement came amid a dramatic dispute between Arafat's wife, Suha, and Palestinian officials whom she accused of trying to usurp the veteran leader. The Palestinians, including top Arafat lieutenants Ahmed Qureia and Mahmoud Abbas, flew to Paris late Monday. Escorted by police motorbikes, a convoy thought to be carrying the Palestinian delegation rushed to the hospital shortly after midday Tuesday. The delegation asked to see Arafat and to meet with doctors treating him, said a Palestinian official in Paris who refused to be further identified. He said the officials want a complete detailed report about Arafat's condition and to know exactly what is wrong with him. The official said that with the exception of Suha, the only person who has been able to see Arafat is his nephew Nasser Al-Kidwa — and that he was reported to have seen his uncle only once. The Palestinians planned meetings throughout the day Tuesday with French officials, including President Jacques Chirac and Foreign Minister Michel Barnier. But how close they would get to Arafat's bedside remained unclear. Their trip was abruptly canceled but then rescheduled Monday after Arafat's wife accused them of wanting to usurp Arafat's four-decade-long role as Palestinian leader. "I tell you they are trying to bury Abu Ammar alive," she shouted, using Arafat's nom de guerre, in a furious telephone call early Monday to Al-Jazeera television. As next of kin, Suha Arafat has been controlling who has access to her ailing husband. "He is all right, and he is going home," she insisted. A coma is a profound state of unconsciousness. Patients are alive but unable to move or respond to their environment. There are several levels of coma and patients may, or may not, progress through them. The responsiveness of the brain lessens as the coma deepens and when it becomes more profound, normal body reflexes are lost and the patient no longer responds even to pain. The chances of recovery depend on the severity of the underlying cause. It is unclear whether a deeper coma alone necessarily means a slimmer chance of recovery because some people in deep coma recover well while others in a so-called milder coma sometimes fail to improve. Suha Arafat's accusation outraged the Palestinian leadership and set the stage for a dramatic showdown that could inflame a tense power struggle between Arafat's longtime lieutenants and his wife. Hospital officials said Monday that visiting rights were restricted. But French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier suggested Tuesday that the Palestinian delegation would be permitted to see Arafat, saying it was only "natural." "All that will be decided at the hospital, with the doctors and the wife," Barnier told France-2 television. Qureia, the Palestinian prime minister, and Abbas, a former prime minister and deputy chairman of Arafat's Palestine Liberation Organization (news - web sites), checked into a hotel a few miles from Arafat's hospital in southwest Paris. They were accompanied by Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath and Parliament Speaker Rauhi Fattouh. Some Palestinians have complained Suha Arafat has gained too much power, as she controls the flow of information about her husband's condition and has taken charge of access to the ailing leader. Palestinians have been making contingency plans in the event of Arafat's death. Qureia has assumed some emergency financial and administrative powers. Abbas has chaired a series of meetings of the PLO executive committee. But neither politician has much grass-roots support among Palestinians or important militant groups. Suha Arafat, his wife of 13 years and mother of his daughter, seems to have aligned herself with hard-liners who apparently seek to take over the Palestinian leadership in a post-Arafat era, though some Palestinian officials said her motives are more financial. According to a senior official in Arafat's office, she has received monthly payments of $100,000 from Palestinian coffers and is widely believed to have control of vast funds collected by the PLO. This year, French prosecutors launched a money-laundering probe into transfers of $11.4 million into her accounts. She has refused to talk to reporters about Palestinian finances. Suha Arafat, 41, lives in Paris and has not been to the West Bank or seen her husband since the latest round of Palestinian violence began in 2000. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=540&ncid=716&e=2&u=/ap/20041109/ap_on_re_mi_ea/arafat I took the one less traveled by,And that has made all the difference.

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