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All 14 posts Subject: illigal entry?? Please login to post Down

xwing
(Stranger)
11-10-04 18:02
No 540867
      illigal entry??

whats up... i used to lurk around here back when str8 2 bee was the shit...anyway swim had a warrant out for him. the other day two leo's showed up at his front door....swim promtly closed the door in there face. the next thing he knows they are at the back glass sliding door sdaying open up or will will break the sliding door....now swim let em' in because it is not his house and the owner would have been pissed had they broke it. but i guess his question is would they have leagly been able to break the door???
thanks in advance.

syschk
(Stranger)
11-10-04 18:09
No 540868
      Yes

Once they saw you they had were able to break down door to make arrest -- legally. If you did not open door for them they would probably said you were "resisting arrest" and smashed the door/house in to as many pieces as they saw fit.

shadow man keeps me company

xwing
(Stranger)
11-10-04 18:33
No 540872
      well that sucks.....glad my friend let them...

well that sucks.....glad my friend let them in...

geezmeister
(Of Counsel)
11-10-04 19:09
No 540879
      Depends

They may arrest you on a felony warrant and enter your home if you do not come out. Payton v. New York still is controlling law on the point. They may not enter someone else's home to arrest you on a felony warrant without a search warrant for that home, although this is often overlooked, since you aren't the aggrieved party and the legality of the arrest is immaterial to whether they can hold you on the arrest warrant.

In my state, under state statute, law enforcment officers may not cross the threshold on a misdemeanor arrest warrant, and are obliged to wait outside until you get tired of being inside. In my state, they can't execute an arrest warrant on a misdemeanor anywhere but in a public place between the hours of 10:00 pm and 6:00 a.m., which keeps them from coming to get you at night on misdemeanors.

There is no such restriction on felony arrests, and not all states have the statutory rule on misdemeanor arrests that my state has.

mostly harmless

xwing
(Stranger)
11-10-04 19:26
No 540884
      well daum

thanks for the info, i will let my friend know, i'm sure that the law varies from state to state though

Scottydog
(Hive Addict)
11-11-04 04:34
No 540964
User Picture       Legality and Reality

Are you a gambling man? Geez knows best in terms of legality but in terms of reality, LE can and will do pretty much whatever they want. Are you willing to gamble on a public defender and a court room decision? If not I can personally assure you that law enforcement IS!

Just when you think you know the law, you really don't because all of the revised statutes in the world will not protect you with inexperienced, ill-educated, rookie cops hell bent on making an arrest.

If in doubt (which most of them are) They will kick in your door, your neighbors door, whomever's and take you down and then let the courts sort out any "possible" civil rights infringements.

It will cost money for you to prove that the invasion was unconstitutional, it will cost them not even tears to clear the case.

In your situation, just the simple fact that they got a "visual" on your presence, is enough probable cause to believe you are where they believe you to bee and deadbolts will not restrain them. frown

The key is not to rack up warrants and to comply with whatever the original agreement was between YOU and THEM. That generally means showing up to court when you originally were ordered to or paying whatever fines may have been imposed in a timely manner. As I'm also sure that your friends might appreciate their privacy beeing respected, free of any warrantless intrusion.

God I'm glad I don't allow any visitors at my house, ya never know when any of them might have warrants for their arrest.

By the time you flip open a law book to tell them they can or can't do something, chances are that you will have carpet burns on your face. crazy

Refuse/Resist

geezmeister
(Of Counsel)
11-11-04 05:32
No 540971
      I agree

I agree with the street smarts Scottydog shows. I can, and have, stared LE in the eye at the door and told them to go get their fucking search warrant. I've told them to kiss my ass and shut the door in their face. But I have years of experience crossexamining them in court, and am not in the least intimidated by them. I communicate that in an authoritative, matter of fact manner they've heard before -- in courtrooms. It gives them pause. Its saved my ass on more than one occasion. I sometimes forget that not everyone can lip off to cops the way I tend to do and get away with it. Its part confidence, part attitude, and part of it is voice.

Yeah, they'd have kicked the door in and drug your ass out. All the nice legal principles work in the courtroom, not the street. Scottydog shoots you straight on this one.

mostly harmless

reeB_relliM
(Newbee)
11-11-04 16:46
No 541047
      If they see you FIRST......

As they are approaching your front door,   ...okay, if you see them, and they see you, but for whatever reason you decide to quickly slam the door in their face, ...they usually can and will kick down the door. They'll just say that you alerted and ran inside, it moreless becomes a pursuit, ..they didn't know if you were going to grab a gun, or flush evidence, or whatever else.

I know it sucks, but it's always best, if you know that there is a warrant out for your arrest, ...to just suck up your pride, turn yourself in and get it over with. Look at it like this, you certainly don't want them to catch up with you when you least expect it, you then put yourself and others around you at a high risk of being caught up in your darkest hour. Like for instance, if you are out with some buddies, and the car you're in gets pulled over, the cop usually will run everyones name for what they call a "28/29 local NCIC check" (to see if anyone has any warrants) ..well, they come back over the cops walkie and say "Joe Schmoe has a valid class 'C' DL, no restrictions, but I'm showing your party, John Doe (you) is 10-99, please standby for verification" ...well, I hate to say this, but in other words, that means your buddy has a valid drivers license and is clear, but you are most likely going to jail depending on whether that warrant gets verified by their records dept. , ...which also means that you will be charged with anything illegal they might find in your pockets when you're arrested (..aw man, I forgot all about that pipe being in my front pocket, or how about all those receipts that you'd forgot about, ..you know, the ones that accumulated from a day of running around buying pills shocked , ...major ooops!!) Yeah, but now the cop is more than likely gonna tear your friends car apart (with consent, or none).

Sure would make you feel like shit if they were to find 10 lbs of shit in his trunk now, huh? Where otherwise if you would've just taken care of your warrant previously, and faced it head on, then you both would've checked out clean, and the traffic stop would've been un-eventfull.

If you have a tendency to forget about your court dates, but still drive around all the time with shit on ya, or in your car, ...it's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of WHEN, the shit will catch up to you. I speak from many silly mistakes that I'd made as a rebel youngster. From that, "we live and we learn", ...in turn it has made me a much wiser man.

reeB

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)

geezmeister
(Of Counsel)
11-11-04 18:02
No 541053
      identification

That cop that asks for identification... you need to give them your name, but if you are not driving in the US, remember there is absolutely no law which requires you to carry any form of identification at all. Nor do you need to provide law enforcement with identification unless you were operating the vehicle.

Really. If you do not have any identification on you, and you tell them that you don't, there isn't anything they can do about it. Recent case law indicates that they can make you tell them who you are... it does not mean you have to prove it by providing identification.

I have a relative who wouldn't beleive me on this until he lost his driver's license. They took it away, and he didn't get a photo ID, and when he stopped, he tells them he doesn't have an ID. He's walked with warrants outstanding... but remember... NEVER claim to be someone else.... (at least someone who actually exists.)

mostly harmless

Osmium
(Stoni's sexual toy)
11-11-04 21:46
No 541086
User Picture       What about non-US citizens?

What about non-US citizens? I guess they have to identify themselves, don't they?

BUSH/CHENEY 2004! After all, it ain't my country!
www.american-buddha.com/addict.war.1.htm

Unobtainium
(Minister of Propaganda)
11-11-04 22:26
No 541095
User Picture       Cops would have no way of knowing you aren't a

Cops would have no way of knowing you aren't a US citizen unless you told them. If they do know you're a foreigner, they probably can demand you to show your passport. As in all countries, foreigners are required to present their passport to authorities when requested. I'm pretty sure the local police qualify as an authority in this case, and the fed wouldn't need to be involved. Otherwise they would just call up INS and have them demand proof of identification.

Milk rots your brain.

geezmeister
(Of Counsel)
11-11-04 23:06
No 541105
      No

Where I live, Os, you could be stopped, admit to being an illegal alien with no documentation, and they'd let you go on your way since LE around here would rather not have to do INS's work. That was the case with 63 illegal immigrants from Latin America last week.

I am NOT kidding.

mostly harmless

Unobtainium
(Minister of Propaganda)
11-11-04 23:14
No 541109
User Picture       I don't doubt it. Immigration is not the ...

I don't doubt it. Immigration is not the jurisdiction of police. Unless you were suspected of a crime, they wouldn't care. They may hassel you about it and threaten you if you piss them off, but if you haven't done anything illegal they don't want the paperwork involved in bringing in the feds.

Milk rots your brain.

Bwiti
(PVC-Analog Taste-Tester)
11-14-04 21:51
No 541561
User Picture       pigs

About a month ago, five shit-eating fucking swine that deserve to be innoculated with the deadly strain of ecoli and stabbed in their eyes with a syringe of snake poison, pounded on the door of a good friend of mine. They said they were interested in looking at the available apartment upstairs - When that didn't work, those fuckers said they were pigs. My friend slammed the window that he was talking to them out of. In my dreams, I hid his dope in a ceiling tile. Those worthless abortions-that-got-away eventually pried a window open and arrested him for skipping-out on probation a year or two ago. They asked me if I was on probation and I said, "Nope - You bastards won't get me for shit." It feels good to not be on probation. I wanted to tell that lady-pig bitch that I'd like to open her neck like a pez dispensor, but that would buy me some jail-time. It turns-out that some scum-bag cunt that didn't like him for no rational reason ratted him out. Too bad it isn't legal to dress-up as a native american and scalp those fuckers with a hatchet.

Love My Country, Fear My Government

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	All 14 posts		Subject: illigal entry??		Please login to post		Down


		xwing (Stranger) 11-10-04 18:02 No 540867				illigal entry??
						whats up... i used to lurk around here back when str8 2 bee was the shit...anyway swim had a warrant out for him. the other day two leo's showed up at his front door....swim promtly closed the door in there face. the next thing he knows they are at the back glass sliding door sdaying open up or will will break the sliding door....now swim let em' in because it is not his house and the owner would have been pissed had they broke it. but i guess his question is would they have leagly been able to break the door??? thanks in advance.



		syschk (Stranger) 11-10-04 18:09 No 540868				Yes
						Once they saw you they had were able to break down door to make arrest -- legally. If you did not open door for them they would probably said you were "resisting arrest" and smashed the door/house in to as many pieces as they saw fit. shadow man keeps me company



		xwing (Stranger) 11-10-04 18:33 No 540872				well that sucks.....glad my friend let them...
						well that sucks.....glad my friend let them in...



		geezmeister (Of Counsel) 11-10-04 19:09 No 540879				Depends
						They may arrest you on a felony warrant and enter your home if you do not come out. Payton v. New York still is controlling law on the point. They may not enter someone else's home to arrest you on a felony warrant without a search warrant for that home, although this is often overlooked, since you aren't the aggrieved party and the legality of the arrest is immaterial to whether they can hold you on the arrest warrant. In my state, under state statute, law enforcment officers may not cross the threshold on a misdemeanor arrest warrant, and are obliged to wait outside until you get tired of being inside. In my state, they can't execute an arrest warrant on a misdemeanor anywhere but in a public place between the hours of 10:00 pm and 6:00 a.m., which keeps them from coming to get you at night on misdemeanors. There is no such restriction on felony arrests, and not all states have the statutory rule on misdemeanor arrests that my state has. mostly harmless



		xwing (Stranger) 11-10-04 19:26 No 540884				well daum
						thanks for the info, i will let my friend know, i'm sure that the law varies from state to state though



		Scottydog (Hive Addict) 11-11-04 04:34 No 540964				Legality and Reality
						Are you a gambling man? Geez knows best in terms of legality but in terms of reality, LE can and will do pretty much whatever they want. Are you willing to gamble on a public defender and a court room decision? If not I can personally assure you that law enforcement IS! Just when you think you know the law, you really don't because all of the revised statutes in the world will not protect you with inexperienced, ill-educated, rookie cops hell bent on making an arrest. If in doubt (which most of them are) They will kick in your door, your neighbors door, whomever's and take you down and then let the courts sort out any "possible" civil rights infringements. It will cost money for you to prove that the invasion was unconstitutional, it will cost them not even tears to clear the case. In your situation, just the simple fact that they got a "visual" on your presence, is enough probable cause to believe you are where they believe you to bee and deadbolts will not restrain them. The key is not to rack up warrants and to comply with whatever the original agreement was between YOU and THEM. That generally means showing up to court when you originally were ordered to or paying whatever fines may have been imposed in a timely manner. As I'm also sure that your friends might appreciate their privacy beeing respected, free of any warrantless intrusion. God I'm glad I don't allow any visitors at my house, ya never know when any of them might have warrants for their arrest. By the time you flip open a law book to tell them they can or can't do something, chances are that you will have carpet burns on your face. Refuse/Resist



		geezmeister (Of Counsel) 11-11-04 05:32 No 540971				I agree
						I agree with the street smarts Scottydog shows. I can, and have, stared LE in the eye at the door and told them to go get their fucking search warrant. I've told them to kiss my ass and shut the door in their face. But I have years of experience crossexamining them in court, and am not in the least intimidated by them. I communicate that in an authoritative, matter of fact manner they've heard before -- in courtrooms. It gives them pause. Its saved my ass on more than one occasion. I sometimes forget that not everyone can lip off to cops the way I tend to do and get away with it. Its part confidence, part attitude, and part of it is voice. Yeah, they'd have kicked the door in and drug your ass out. All the nice legal principles work in the courtroom, not the street. Scottydog shoots you straight on this one. mostly harmless



		reeB_relliM (Newbee) 11-11-04 16:46 No 541047				If they see you FIRST......
						As they are approaching your front door, ...okay, if you see them, and they see you, but for whatever reason you decide to quickly slam the door in their face, ...they usually can and will kick down the door. They'll just say that you alerted and ran inside, it moreless becomes a pursuit, ..they didn't know if you were going to grab a gun, or flush evidence, or whatever else. I know it sucks, but it's always best, if you know that there is a warrant out for your arrest, ...to just suck up your pride, turn yourself in and get it over with. Look at it like this, you certainly don't want them to catch up with you when you least expect it, you then put yourself and others around you at a high risk of being caught up in your darkest hour. Like for instance, if you are out with some buddies, and the car you're in gets pulled over, the cop usually will run everyones name for what they call a "28/29 local NCIC check" (to see if anyone has any warrants) ..well, they come back over the cops walkie and say "Joe Schmoe has a valid class 'C' DL, no restrictions, but I'm showing your party, John Doe (you) is 10-99, please standby for verification" ...well, I hate to say this, but in other words, that means your buddy has a valid drivers license and is clear, but you are most likely going to jail depending on whether that warrant gets verified by their records dept. , ...which also means that you will be charged with anything illegal they might find in your pockets when you're arrested (..aw man, I forgot all about that pipe being in my front pocket, or how about all those receipts that you'd forgot about, ..you know, the ones that accumulated from a day of running around buying pills , ...major ooops!!) Yeah, but now the cop is more than likely gonna tear your friends car apart (with consent, or none). Sure would make you feel like shit if they were to find 10 lbs of shit in his trunk now, huh? Where otherwise if you would've just taken care of your warrant previously, and faced it head on, then you both would've checked out clean, and the traffic stop would've been un-eventfull. If you have a tendency to forget about your court dates, but still drive around all the time with shit on ya, or in your car, ...it's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of WHEN, the shit will catch up to you. I speak from many silly mistakes that I'd made as a rebel youngster. From that, "we live and we learn", ...in turn it has made me a much wiser man. reeB Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)



		geezmeister (Of Counsel) 11-11-04 18:02 No 541053				identification
						That cop that asks for identification... you need to give them your name, but if you are not driving in the US, remember there is absolutely no law which requires you to carry any form of identification at all. Nor do you need to provide law enforcement with identification unless you were operating the vehicle. Really. If you do not have any identification on you, and you tell them that you don't, there isn't anything they can do about it. Recent case law indicates that they can make you tell them who you are... it does not mean you have to prove it by providing identification. I have a relative who wouldn't beleive me on this until he lost his driver's license. They took it away, and he didn't get a photo ID, and when he stopped, he tells them he doesn't have an ID. He's walked with warrants outstanding... but remember... NEVER claim to be someone else.... (at least someone who actually exists.) mostly harmless



		Osmium (Stoni's sexual toy) 11-11-04 21:46 No 541086				What about non-US citizens?
						What about non-US citizens? I guess they have to identify themselves, don't they? BUSH/CHENEY 2004! After all, it ain't my country! www.american-buddha.com/addict.war.1.htm



		Unobtainium (Minister of Propaganda) 11-11-04 22:26 No 541095				Cops would have no way of knowing you aren't a
						Cops would have no way of knowing you aren't a US citizen unless you told them. If they do know you're a foreigner, they probably can demand you to show your passport. As in all countries, foreigners are required to present their passport to authorities when requested. I'm pretty sure the local police qualify as an authority in this case, and the fed wouldn't need to be involved. Otherwise they would just call up INS and have them demand proof of identification. Milk rots your brain.



		geezmeister (Of Counsel) 11-11-04 23:06 No 541105				No
						Where I live, Os, you could be stopped, admit to being an illegal alien with no documentation, and they'd let you go on your way since LE around here would rather not have to do INS's work. That was the case with 63 illegal immigrants from Latin America last week. I am NOT kidding. mostly harmless



		Unobtainium (Minister of Propaganda) 11-11-04 23:14 No 541109				I don't doubt it. Immigration is not the ...
						I don't doubt it. Immigration is not the jurisdiction of police. Unless you were suspected of a crime, they wouldn't care. They may hassel you about it and threaten you if you piss them off, but if you haven't done anything illegal they don't want the paperwork involved in bringing in the feds. Milk rots your brain.



		Bwiti (PVC-Analog Taste-Tester) 11-14-04 21:51 No 541561				pigs
						About a month ago, five shit-eating fucking swine that deserve to be innoculated with the deadly strain of ecoli and stabbed in their eyes with a syringe of snake poison, pounded on the door of a good friend of mine. They said they were interested in looking at the available apartment upstairs - When that didn't work, those fuckers said they were pigs. My friend slammed the window that he was talking to them out of. In my dreams, I hid his dope in a ceiling tile. Those worthless abortions-that-got-away eventually pried a window open and arrested him for skipping-out on probation a year or two ago. They asked me if I was on probation and I said, "Nope - You bastards won't get me for shit." It feels good to not be on probation. I wanted to tell that lady-pig bitch that I'd like to open her neck like a pez dispensor, but that would buy me some jail-time. It turns-out that some scum-bag cunt that didn't like him for no rational reason ratted him out. Too bad it isn't legal to dress-up as a native american and scalp those fuckers with a hatchet. Love My Country, Fear My Government

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