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All 17 posts Subject: anyone heard of these potential stimulants? Please login to post Down

superman
(Hive Bee)
07-15-04 03:06
No 519476
      anyone heard of these potential stimulants?

this is from the good drug guide,   just wondering if this has been explored at all by any bees

N-methyl-[alpha]-ethylphenylethylamine. This compound should be pharmacologically very similar to methamphetamine and synthesis could employ 1-phenyl-2-butanone instead of P2P. Alternatively, the use of 1-(4-fluorophenyl)propan-2-one, in place of P2P, would almost certainly give a product with adrenomimetic properties, and may in fact be considerably more potent than methamphetamine.

EDIT:   i should include this link for those wo haven't yet been here.   good read

http://designer-drugs.com/synth/index.html

Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
07-15-04 08:08
No 519534
User Picture       Methaephetamine, a.k.a α-Ethyl-PEA

It has been discussed before:

Post 471815 (Kinetic: "2-methylamino-1-phenylbutane", Novel Discourse)
Post 468000 (Kinetic: "Some extent", Newbee Forum)
Post 372259 (Bwiti: "1-Phenyl-2-Methylaminobutane HCl", General Discourse)
Post 504623 (Kinetic: "Another way to methaephetamine", Novel Discourse)
Post 475219 (Kinetic: "Benzene -> methaephetamine", Novel Discourse)
Post 98365 (assholium: "phenyl-3-butylamines??", Chemistry Discourse)

^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}

Vitus_Verdegast
(Hive Addict)
07-15-04 15:01
No 519587
User Picture       α-ethyl-PEA

I have bio-assayed α-ethyl-PEA (or aephetamine, not methaephetamine!) a couple of times. It is considerably weaker in both potency and qualitative effects than (meth)amphetamine, it gives no euphoria, but it's useful as a study aid.

http://www.mindspring.com/~rathcoombe/horror/raven2.jpg

wolff_kishner
(Stranger)
07-27-04 23:50
No 522074
      Weak effects are not necessarily a bad thing.....

It is considerably weaker in both potency and qualitative effects than (meth)amphetamine, it gives no euphoria

Perhaps, then, one may be able to avoid conviction under the analogue act by saying that it cannot be an analogue of methamphetamine because its stimulant effect is not substantially similiar to nor greater than methamphetamine. What do you think? A new set of RC companies could be formed without fear of conviction.

methyl_ethyl
(Guardian)
07-28-04 03:28
No 522125
User Picture       good luck

A new set of RC companies could be formed without fear of conviction.

I would tend to doubt that statement. Research companies that get into the business on the basis of a "grey market" business model tend to not only fail miserably but end up owing large sums of money to the government (US) or even worse jail time crazy . I cannot stress the point any further that those that want to make money on the "gray market" are wasting their time. Sure you might be able to pile up 300k (USD) during a good run, like the 1,4 Butanediol operation in Festus MO, however the odds are that you will be caught, and have to serve a lengthy sentence are almost guaranteed.

We have come to the point that formation of a small scale chemical supply wholesaler could never be formed without fear of conviction....

regards,

m_e

   Unipolar Mania, It's good for life... laugh

Vitus_Verdegast
(Hive Addict)
07-28-04 12:00
No 522235
User Picture       forget about it

Perhaps, then, one may be able to avoid conviction under the analogue act by saying that it cannot be an analogue of methamphetamine because its stimulant effect is not substantially similiar to nor greater than methamphetamine. What do you think?

An analogue is an analogue regardless of potency. You will not be able to avoid conviction if you sell this to the public, esp. not if they are called 'ravergirl69' etc.. Haven't you learned enough of the recent events?

A new set of RC companies could be formed without fear of conviction

Actually, I was very glad that the so-called research chemical companies were taken down. Of course I oppose the repulsive tactics used for this by the DEA strongly, but in no way I will support a bunch of greedy businessmen who earn lots of money in a completely immoral way and next to that are the main cause of illegalization of many interesting compounds.
I also support installing laws that make not the compounds but the RC companies illegal.

http://www.mindspring.com/~rathcoombe/horror/raven2.jpg

wolff_kishner
(Stranger)
07-28-04 19:36
No 522271
      Effects AND structure determine analogue status

An analogue is an analogue regardless of potency.

When I say analogue, I meant an analogue as defined by the analogue act. The act states that the chemical structure AND the effects must be substantially similiar for the substance to qualify as an analogue. Therefore, a substance with weaker effects would not be called an analogue under the law, because the effects are not "substantially similar" to a controlled substance.

psyloxy
(Hive Addict)
07-28-04 19:52
No 522274
User Picture       forget it

Therefore, a substance with weaker effects would not be called an analogue under the law, because the effects are not "substantially similar" to a controlled substance.

You think telling that to a US judge will get you out of court as a free man ? Damn, wake up ! I bet there's a host of DEA friendly 'scientists' who will testify how enormously substantial the similarities are. The law is made of rubber and always bent to your disadvantage, especially the drug laws, especially in the US.

Forget it. End of discussion.

--psyloxy--

xxxxx
(Hive Bee)
08-13-04 22:22
No 525322
      mephentermine

mephentermine (a,a,n trimethyl phenethylamine) is not a controlled substance and is rated as being 1/3 as potent as amphetamine. i would be interested in whether putting a cf3 or br on the 4 position or a 3,4 methylenedioxy would pass, since only schedule 1 and 2 analogs are currently schedule 1 compounds (last i read). of course if you put 3,4,5 trimethoxy on it this would be too much like mescaline for purposes of the 86 analogs act. comments please?

psyloxy
(Hive Addict)
08-14-04 05:54
No 525369
User Picture       In case it didn't catch your eye already: #116

In case it didn't catch your eye already:
#116 MDPH (http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal116.shtml)

My last post still applies, even more when you see the statement "Quite like MDA" in the qualitative comments.

--psyloxy--

xxxxx
(Hive Bee)
08-16-04 21:57
No 525797
      alpha, alpha, n trimethyl

i wasn´t able to post a diagram of the molecule, but the methyl groups are on the alpha carbon (and one on the nitrogen), so the compound does not have the amphetamine skeleton for the purposes of the analog act. #116 mdph is beta, beta dimethyl although it is incorrectly named alpha, alpha dimethyl (alpha is the first carbon (toluene) beta is the second (ethylbenzene), yes?). that is why mephentermine is interesting to me (although since my last post i have heard the compound may be a schedule iv controlled substance, so analogs of this compound would still not be schedule i controlled substances.)

starlight
(Hive Bee)
08-17-04 09:59
No 525870
      alpha, beta

MDPH is alpha, alpha dimethyl. The alpha carbon is the one with the amino group. The beta carbon is the one next to the aromatic ring.

xxxxx
(Hive Bee)
08-18-04 22:09
No 526118
      picture in the link is...

picture in the link is 3,4 -och2o-c6h3-ch2-c(ch3)(ch3)(nh2). mephentermine is c6h5-c(ch3)(ch3)ch2-nh(ch3).

moo
(Hive Addict)
08-18-04 22:52
No 526122
      Wrong

No, mephentermine is C₆H₅-CH₂-C(CH₂)₂-NH-CH₃, the alpha-carbon where to which the two methyls are connected is the same carbon bearing the methylamino group. Phentermine is alpha,alpha-dimethylphenethylamine where amphetamine is alpha-methylphenethylamine. Mephentermine and methamphetamine are the N-methyl analogues of those. Check out Merck Index or whatever if you don't believe.

_{fear fear hate hate}

xxxxx
(Hive Bee)
08-18-04 23:17
No 526128
      forget the name...

anyway there is a compound c6h5-c(ch3)(ch3)-ch2-nh(ch3) that has some activity. maybe putting a cf3 group on the 4 position would increase the activity.

Fastandbulbous
(Hive Bee)
08-26-04 01:11
No 527383
User Picture       beta-methylphenethylamine

Without the alpha-methyl group, there isn't going to be a lot of stimulation going on. Years ago I tried beta-methylphenethylamine to asses if it had any stimulant activity (it has been used as a vasoconstrictor decongestant in the past); it doesn't, just has pressor activity. So by that reasoning, adding an extra beta-methyl group isn't going to be any more effective.

If you want something with a lot more potential, try looking at alpha,beta-dimethylphenethylamine (3-phenyl-2-aminobutane) and it's N-methyl derivative

That is right, the Mascara Snake: Fast and bulbous

acx01b
(Newbee)
10-29-04 01:13
No 538404
User Picture       in france laws...

sory i post here and in law forum, because i think there are similar laws in many countries:

in france law is very clear:

some compounds are illegal, you can go to jail for only having some.

but designer drugs are not really legal because you cannot sell or give a product which have similar properties as illegal compounds (hallucinogenic, stimulant, and/or relaxant), you can go to jail for giving or selling even non-active compounds, saying that they are active...
so: you can go to jail too for selling ephedrine in low quantities because it is stimulant whereas in france you can buy some pseudoeph at the pharmstore without medical order (non listed medication)
for the ephedrine: selling it in the caps saying that it comes from the pharmstore you can go to jail for 2years whereas selling it in powder, in same quantities you can go to jail for 10 years (in the 1st case you risk because you sell medication without being pharmacist, in the second case you risk because you sell compound which has similar properties as illegal drugs)
finally in France you wont risk anything producting and consuming ALone things like methphentermine, but if someone says you have sold or given him some, you can go to jail for 10years...

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	All 17 posts		Subject: anyone heard of these potential stimulants?		Please login to post		Down


		superman (Hive Bee) 07-15-04 03:06 No 519476				anyone heard of these potential stimulants?
						this is from the good drug guide, just wondering if this has been explored at all by any bees N-methyl-[alpha]-ethylphenylethylamine. This compound should be pharmacologically very similar to methamphetamine and synthesis could employ 1-phenyl-2-butanone instead of P2P. Alternatively, the use of 1-(4-fluorophenyl)propan-2-one, in place of P2P, would almost certainly give a product with adrenomimetic properties, and may in fact be considerably more potent than methamphetamine. EDIT: i should include this link for those wo haven't yet been here. good read http://designer-drugs.com/synth/index.html



		Rhodium (Chief Bee) 07-15-04 08:08 No 519534				Methaephetamine, a.k.a α-Ethyl-PEA
						It has been discussed before: Post 471815 (Kinetic: "2-methylamino-1-phenylbutane", Novel Discourse) Post 468000 (Kinetic: "Some extent", Newbee Forum) Post 372259 (Bwiti: "1-Phenyl-2-Methylaminobutane HCl", General Discourse) Post 504623 (Kinetic: "Another way to methaephetamine", Novel Discourse) Post 475219 (Kinetic: "Benzene -> methaephetamine", Novel Discourse) Post 98365 (assholium: "phenyl-3-butylamines??", Chemistry Discourse) ^{The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders}



		Vitus_Verdegast (Hive Addict) 07-15-04 15:01 No 519587				α-ethyl-PEA
						I have bio-assayed α-ethyl-PEA (or aephetamine, not methaephetamine!) a couple of times. It is considerably weaker in both potency and qualitative effects than (meth)amphetamine, it gives no euphoria, but it's useful as a study aid. http://www.mindspring.com/~rathcoombe/horror/raven2.jpg



		wolff_kishner (Stranger) 07-27-04 23:50 No 522074				Weak effects are not necessarily a bad thing.....
						It is considerably weaker in both potency and qualitative effects than (meth)amphetamine, it gives no euphoria Perhaps, then, one may be able to avoid conviction under the analogue act by saying that it cannot be an analogue of methamphetamine because its stimulant effect is not substantially similiar to nor greater than methamphetamine. What do you think? A new set of RC companies could be formed without fear of conviction.



		methyl_ethyl (Guardian) 07-28-04 03:28 No 522125				good luck
						A new set of RC companies could be formed without fear of conviction. I would tend to doubt that statement. Research companies that get into the business on the basis of a "grey market" business model tend to not only fail miserably but end up owing large sums of money to the government (US) or even worse jail time . I cannot stress the point any further that those that want to make money on the "gray market" are wasting their time. Sure you might be able to pile up 300k (USD) during a good run, like the 1,4 Butanediol operation in Festus MO, however the odds are that you will be caught, and have to serve a lengthy sentence are almost guaranteed. We have come to the point that formation of a small scale chemical supply wholesaler could never be formed without fear of conviction.... regards, m_e Unipolar Mania, It's good for life...



		Vitus_Verdegast (Hive Addict) 07-28-04 12:00 No 522235				forget about it
						Perhaps, then, one may be able to avoid conviction under the analogue act by saying that it cannot be an analogue of methamphetamine because its stimulant effect is not substantially similiar to nor greater than methamphetamine. What do you think? An analogue is an analogue regardless of potency. You will not be able to avoid conviction if you sell this to the public, esp. not if they are called 'ravergirl69' etc.. Haven't you learned enough of the recent events? A new set of RC companies could be formed without fear of conviction Actually, I was very glad that the so-called research chemical companies were taken down. Of course I oppose the repulsive tactics used for this by the DEA strongly, but in no way I will support a bunch of greedy businessmen who earn lots of money in a completely immoral way and next to that are the main cause of illegalization of many interesting compounds. I also support installing laws that make not the compounds but the RC companies illegal. http://www.mindspring.com/~rathcoombe/horror/raven2.jpg



		wolff_kishner (Stranger) 07-28-04 19:36 No 522271				Effects AND structure determine analogue status
						An analogue is an analogue regardless of potency. When I say analogue, I meant an analogue as defined by the analogue act. The act states that the chemical structure AND the effects must be substantially similiar for the substance to qualify as an analogue. Therefore, a substance with weaker effects would not be called an analogue under the law, because the effects are not "substantially similar" to a controlled substance.



		psyloxy (Hive Addict) 07-28-04 19:52 No 522274				forget it
						Therefore, a substance with weaker effects would not be called an analogue under the law, because the effects are not "substantially similar" to a controlled substance. You think telling that to a US judge will get you out of court as a free man ? Damn, wake up ! I bet there's a host of DEA friendly 'scientists' who will testify how enormously substantial the similarities are. The law is made of rubber and always bent to your disadvantage, especially the drug laws, especially in the US. Forget it. End of discussion. --psyloxy--



		xxxxx (Hive Bee) 08-13-04 22:22 No 525322				mephentermine
						mephentermine (a,a,n trimethyl phenethylamine) is not a controlled substance and is rated as being 1/3 as potent as amphetamine. i would be interested in whether putting a cf3 or br on the 4 position or a 3,4 methylenedioxy would pass, since only schedule 1 and 2 analogs are currently schedule 1 compounds (last i read). of course if you put 3,4,5 trimethoxy on it this would be too much like mescaline for purposes of the 86 analogs act. comments please?



		psyloxy (Hive Addict) 08-14-04 05:54 No 525369				In case it didn't catch your eye already: #116
						In case it didn't catch your eye already: #116 MDPH (http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal116.shtml) My last post still applies, even more when you see the statement "Quite like MDA" in the qualitative comments. --psyloxy--



		xxxxx (Hive Bee) 08-16-04 21:57 No 525797				alpha, alpha, n trimethyl
						i wasn´t able to post a diagram of the molecule, but the methyl groups are on the alpha carbon (and one on the nitrogen), so the compound does not have the amphetamine skeleton for the purposes of the analog act. #116 mdph is beta, beta dimethyl although it is incorrectly named alpha, alpha dimethyl (alpha is the first carbon (toluene) beta is the second (ethylbenzene), yes?). that is why mephentermine is interesting to me (although since my last post i have heard the compound may be a schedule iv controlled substance, so analogs of this compound would still not be schedule i controlled substances.)



		starlight (Hive Bee) 08-17-04 09:59 No 525870				alpha, beta
						MDPH is alpha, alpha dimethyl. The alpha carbon is the one with the amino group. The beta carbon is the one next to the aromatic ring.



		xxxxx (Hive Bee) 08-18-04 22:09 No 526118				picture in the link is...
						picture in the link is 3,4 -och2o-c6h3-ch2-c(ch3)(ch3)(nh2). mephentermine is c6h5-c(ch3)(ch3)ch2-nh(ch3).



		moo (Hive Addict) 08-18-04 22:52 No 526122				Wrong
						No, mephentermine is C₆H₅-CH₂-C(CH₂)₂-NH-CH₃, the alpha-carbon where to which the two methyls are connected is the same carbon bearing the methylamino group. Phentermine is alpha,alpha-dimethylphenethylamine where amphetamine is alpha-methylphenethylamine. Mephentermine and methamphetamine are the N-methyl analogues of those. Check out Merck Index or whatever if you don't believe. _{fear fear hate hate}



		xxxxx (Hive Bee) 08-18-04 23:17 No 526128				forget the name...
						anyway there is a compound c6h5-c(ch3)(ch3)-ch2-nh(ch3) that has some activity. maybe putting a cf3 group on the 4 position would increase the activity.



		Fastandbulbous (Hive Bee) 08-26-04 01:11 No 527383				beta-methylphenethylamine
						Without the alpha-methyl group, there isn't going to be a lot of stimulation going on. Years ago I tried beta-methylphenethylamine to asses if it had any stimulant activity (it has been used as a vasoconstrictor decongestant in the past); it doesn't, just has pressor activity. So by that reasoning, adding an extra beta-methyl group isn't going to be any more effective. If you want something with a lot more potential, try looking at alpha,beta-dimethylphenethylamine (3-phenyl-2-aminobutane) and it's N-methyl derivative That is right, the Mascara Snake: Fast and bulbous



		acx01b (Newbee) 10-29-04 01:13 No 538404				in france laws...
						sory i post here and in law forum, because i think there are similar laws in many countries: in france law is very clear: some compounds are illegal, you can go to jail for only having some. but designer drugs are not really legal because you cannot sell or give a product which have similar properties as illegal compounds (hallucinogenic, stimulant, and/or relaxant), you can go to jail for giving or selling even non-active compounds, saying that they are active... so: you can go to jail too for selling ephedrine in low quantities because it is stimulant whereas in france you can buy some pseudoeph at the pharmstore without medical order (non listed medication) for the ephedrine: selling it in the caps saying that it comes from the pharmstore you can go to jail for 2years whereas selling it in powder, in same quantities you can go to jail for 10 years (in the 1st case you risk because you sell medication without being pharmacist, in the second case you risk because you sell compound which has similar properties as illegal drugs) finally in France you wont risk anything producting and consuming ALone things like methphentermine, but if someone says you have sold or given him some, you can go to jail for 10years...

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