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All 4 posts Subject: otc meth from Phe via strecker and al/hg? Please login to post Down

psi0nic
(Stranger)
09-13-04 21:10
No 531175
      otc meth from Phe via strecker and al/hg?

Looking at recent information on phenylalanine --> amphetamine synthesis it rather seems to me the nearest to a fully otc rxn. Here's my summary of how it proceeds, not doing the stochiometry as yet because i want to get some opinions from the bees about it:

Starting with phenylalanine, using sodium hypochlorite and, because i don't have easy access to benzene or toluene, would xylene or an aliphatic hydrocarbon solvent work? The description of the rxn talks about a starch test to monitor the rxn, i presume slices of potato could be substituted. It says 'starch iodine' paper, so does that mean i should make some HI to stain it in the first instance, and that the rxn will be complete when it reacts with the stained starch. I am not much in a state of processing information at the moment, so i apologise if that's completely wrong.

From there the formed p2p is extracted and purified with recrystallisation in the freezer - is this the right way to do it? Is there any issues with using a copper condenser to distill it? A glass condenser seems to be needed, and is required in the second step, but making the p2p in the first instance, seeing as p2p is quite stable it makes sense to me to start with small rxns, collect p2p and refine the rxn for optimal yield and from there the p2p could prolly sit semi-polymerised in a jar for many years without any special protection.

So the next step is to put an amine group on the newly formed ketone. My understanding that the most readily accessible method is via al/hg amalgamation and using nitromethane as a methylamine source. I haven't bothered to pop into my local photo shop anytime recently but ppl tell me it's easy enough to get mercuric cloride. I am aware that there is more information i need to know to do this thing properly, but i guess what i want to know is, is there other methods for aminating that are as OTC or relatively simple? Like, electrolytic for example?

Would other oxidisers work better, potassium dichromate for example?

I was also considering the non-substituted amine product. The production of formic acid seems simple enough so a leuckart is possible relatively otc too. I'm not all that sure i am a greater fan of the nonsubbed vs subbed product, however there is some possibility that the substited amine is more toxic, in part due to the methyl group protecting the chemical for a lot longer when it's stuck in the receptors. Also the idea of using mercury i find a litte unsettling, whereas ammonium formate is less nasty.

My idea with posting this is to get some discussion going. I see this route as a definite viable route for someone only intending to produce for their own use who is not a chemist by profession, a route to DIY psychostims.

Kinetic
(Hive Bee)
09-13-04 21:49
No 531180
      Strecker Degradation

Unfortunately there is a fatal flaw in your proposal. The Strecker degradation of phenylalanine does not produce phenylacetone; the decarboxylation instead gives phenylacetadehyde.

Here is a nice graphical abstract of the reaction: Merck Index #384: Strecker Degradation (http://themerckindex.chemfinder.com/TheMerckIndex/NameReactions/ONR384.htm). Replacing the CH₃- group of alanine (pictured) with Ph-CH₂- shows the reaction for phenylalanine; from this you can see the product will be the aldehyde. To obtain phenylacetone as the product you will need the non-OTC alpha-methyl phenylalanine.

Some more reading on the subject:

Post 508998 (Bond_DoubleBond: "OCl- oxidation of 3,4-methylenedioxy-phenylalanine", Chemistry Discourse)
Post 476244 (Lucid_Dreamer: "Also, phenylalanine--> ...", Newbee Forum)
Strecker Degradation of alpha-methyl-3,4-dimethoxyphenylalanine to 3,4-dimethoxyphenylacetone (https://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/p2p.strecker.html)

psi0nic
(Stranger)
09-14-04 19:11
No 531312
      phenylacetaldehyde...

silly me...

not much use cos it can't be made into anything (?)

ah well, the Phe remains a good nutrient for amphetamine recovery...

back to the drawing board...

edit:
https://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/meth.phenylacetaldehyde.html

phenylacetaldehyde can be made into amphetamine by a grignard addition.

Before I bumped into it I was going to ask whether there might be a way to add the methyl group onto the alpha carbon, and there it is.

First of all, one must make the methylated imine because this blocks any methylation of the nitrogen which thus exposes the alphamethyl to an addition.

So, bearing in mind that a grignard is not the most accessible reaction, is there any other mechanism that is more accessible that can do this?

psi0nic
(Stranger)
09-14-04 19:39
No 531314
      grignard solvent

just a random thought, a while back learned that eucalyptol (cineole) is a alicyclic cyclic ether (ie contains cyclohexane in its structure and an ether bridge... I think the key fact is that it has no double bonds would mean it could be a suitable solvent rather than diethylether.

time to do some research on preparing a methyl grignard reagent.

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	All 4 posts		Subject: otc meth from Phe via strecker and al/hg?		Please login to post		Down


		psi0nic (Stranger) 09-13-04 21:10 No 531175				otc meth from Phe via strecker and al/hg?
						Looking at recent information on phenylalanine --> amphetamine synthesis it rather seems to me the nearest to a fully otc rxn. Here's my summary of how it proceeds, not doing the stochiometry as yet because i want to get some opinions from the bees about it: Starting with phenylalanine, using sodium hypochlorite and, because i don't have easy access to benzene or toluene, would xylene or an aliphatic hydrocarbon solvent work? The description of the rxn talks about a starch test to monitor the rxn, i presume slices of potato could be substituted. It says 'starch iodine' paper, so does that mean i should make some HI to stain it in the first instance, and that the rxn will be complete when it reacts with the stained starch. I am not much in a state of processing information at the moment, so i apologise if that's completely wrong. From there the formed p2p is extracted and purified with recrystallisation in the freezer - is this the right way to do it? Is there any issues with using a copper condenser to distill it? A glass condenser seems to be needed, and is required in the second step, but making the p2p in the first instance, seeing as p2p is quite stable it makes sense to me to start with small rxns, collect p2p and refine the rxn for optimal yield and from there the p2p could prolly sit semi-polymerised in a jar for many years without any special protection. So the next step is to put an amine group on the newly formed ketone. My understanding that the most readily accessible method is via al/hg amalgamation and using nitromethane as a methylamine source. I haven't bothered to pop into my local photo shop anytime recently but ppl tell me it's easy enough to get mercuric cloride. I am aware that there is more information i need to know to do this thing properly, but i guess what i want to know is, is there other methods for aminating that are as OTC or relatively simple? Like, electrolytic for example? Would other oxidisers work better, potassium dichromate for example? I was also considering the non-substituted amine product. The production of formic acid seems simple enough so a leuckart is possible relatively otc too. I'm not all that sure i am a greater fan of the nonsubbed vs subbed product, however there is some possibility that the substited amine is more toxic, in part due to the methyl group protecting the chemical for a lot longer when it's stuck in the receptors. Also the idea of using mercury i find a litte unsettling, whereas ammonium formate is less nasty. My idea with posting this is to get some discussion going. I see this route as a definite viable route for someone only intending to produce for their own use who is not a chemist by profession, a route to DIY psychostims.



		Kinetic (Hive Bee) 09-13-04 21:49 No 531180				Strecker Degradation
						Unfortunately there is a fatal flaw in your proposal. The Strecker degradation of phenylalanine does not produce phenylacetone; the decarboxylation instead gives phenylacetadehyde. Here is a nice graphical abstract of the reaction: Merck Index #384: Strecker Degradation (http://themerckindex.chemfinder.com/TheMerckIndex/NameReactions/ONR384.htm). Replacing the CH₃- group of alanine (pictured) with Ph-CH₂- shows the reaction for phenylalanine; from this you can see the product will be the aldehyde. To obtain phenylacetone as the product you will need the non-OTC alpha-methyl phenylalanine. Some more reading on the subject: Post 508998 (Bond_DoubleBond: "OCl- oxidation of 3,4-methylenedioxy-phenylalanine", Chemistry Discourse) Post 476244 (Lucid_Dreamer: "Also, phenylalanine--> ...", Newbee Forum) Strecker Degradation of alpha-methyl-3,4-dimethoxyphenylalanine to 3,4-dimethoxyphenylacetone (https://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/p2p.strecker.html)



		psi0nic (Stranger) 09-14-04 19:11 No 531312				phenylacetaldehyde...
						silly me... not much use cos it can't be made into anything (?) ah well, the Phe remains a good nutrient for amphetamine recovery... back to the drawing board... edit: https://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/meth.phenylacetaldehyde.html phenylacetaldehyde can be made into amphetamine by a grignard addition. Before I bumped into it I was going to ask whether there might be a way to add the methyl group onto the alpha carbon, and there it is. First of all, one must make the methylated imine because this blocks any methylation of the nitrogen which thus exposes the alphamethyl to an addition. So, bearing in mind that a grignard is not the most accessible reaction, is there any other mechanism that is more accessible that can do this?



		psi0nic (Stranger) 09-14-04 19:39 No 531314				grignard solvent
						just a random thought, a while back learned that eucalyptol (cineole) is a alicyclic cyclic ether (ie contains cyclohexane in its structure and an ether bridge... I think the key fact is that it has no double bonds would mean it could be a suitable solvent rather than diethylether. time to do some research on preparing a methyl grignard reagent.

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