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All 34 posts   Subject: Do Drug Manufacturers always go to Jail?   Please login to post   Down

10-29-04 09:22
No 538498
      Do Drug Manufacturers always go to Jail?     

Is it possible for a person who has been charged with 3 federal crimes (related to alleged importing controlled substances from another country,having precursers,having a huge clandestine MDMA lab,having large quantities of finished product, etc.)not to go to prison?

(Minister of Propaganda)
10-29-04 10:39
No 538502
User Picture 

Yes. If they're politically connected, or if they can rat out people even bigger than themselves.

Milk rots your brain.
10-29-04 11:16
(Rated as: redundant)
(Stoni's sexual toy)
10-29-04 17:36
No 538578
User Picture 
      In the US: no.     

In the US: no.

BUSH/CHENEY 2004! After all, it ain't my country!
(Hive Bee)
10-29-04 18:36
No 538585
User Picture 
      Children of Zion     

In the US: no.

Don't even dare to make yet another anti-semitic post tongue

President of the Iraqi Chemical Weapons of Mass Destruction Development Society
10-29-04 21:06
No 538607
      IN THE SPACEMANS OPINION.........     

if youve got all those charges against you, you had better had a damn good attorney, and then guess what?  your still goin to the slam!!!!! that is if you are convicted, and in the FEDS you will bee!!!!!  that being said, if you dont go to the slam you (you in a generalized term) are a piece of shit fucking RAT!!!!!!! and may you (all yous are in generalized terms... meaning not really youcrazy) die a slow horrible death with all kinds of torture and shit....  thats just swis opionion thoughtongue

may the meth godz smile upon me or i shall sleep long time
10-30-04 01:49
(Rated as: incomprehensible)
(Of Counsel)
10-30-04 22:50
No 538809

I gather you are discussing a federal case. The seizure of a large MDMA lab and a "large quantity" of what I suppose is MDMA will carry an offense level for a first offender sufficient to require some time in the federal penitentiary system if convicted.

Federal prosecutors may charge bargain.. i.e agree to a dismissal of some charges in exchange for plea to others, but the judge retains the sentencing power, and the US Attorney cannot enter a plea bargain that specifies a sentence. The charge bargaining can limit the exposure of the defendant by reducing the offense level he will be sentenced under, but the bargain cannot include as its basis an agreement as to sentence.

An individual with ties to the community and assets in the judicial district will likely have bail set in a case of this nature; if he does not have ties to the community, or if he has no assets that would secure his appearance at trial, he is more likely to remain in jail without bail.

mostly harmless
10-31-04 06:06
No 538872
      mandatory minimums     

swis agrees, geez pretty much hits this one on the head except in one area.  in theory yes, one is entitled to some sort of bail,  but in reality, and swim is speaking from experience, in the FED system, especially where manufacturing is involved, unless you are helping out your friendly agency,or plea right away (you can do this without ratting, but you will face mandatory minimums)you will be denied bail for being a threat to society.  the threat being, you will immediately start manufacturing again (you think?) now as for mandatory minimums, a first time manufacturing offense, with no prior history of legal problems, and only admitting your involvement, is still going to get you around 10yrs FED time, with either 52 or 54 days per yr good time.  in other words be safe my fellow bees.

may the meth godz smile upon me or i shall sleep long time
11-06-04 01:24
No 539941
      Are you kiddin?     

Swim would think it would be easier to hit a state lottery than not draw some time in federal prison.Thats even if you have a damn good attorney and you profer(rat on people).In swims neck of the woods it costs $5000.00 just to retain an attorney for a federal dope case.
Johny Ashcroft can bit me!
Good luck you may need it!

                  Keep comin back it works!
11-06-04 08:58
No 540007

the 'chemist' is the holy grail of a drug bust, of course you will go down

False Messiah
(Hive Addict)
11-07-04 01:06
No 540090
User Picture 
      Determining Factors For a Federal Case     

Sorry if this is a dunce question but what are the determining factors that make a case be federal or not?

Swim's buddy's all too frightening brush with LE appeared to be strictly local but could it have been made federal if someone had really wanted it to? And if so how?

Even though swim's buddy's situation was not with the feds he still somehow won the lottery. A whole lifes worth (and maybe more) of good luck was somehow delivered to him for that.

can't flush this
(Hive Bee)
11-07-04 01:52
No 540097
User Picture this page...

this page gives the standards for sentencing and stipulations for compound infractions. it kinda works on a point system. certin charges have a base point amount. additional charges incure more points in conjunction with other crimes. for example: maufacture of a controlled/scheduled substance gets a base level of 38 to 43 points. if a computer was involved in distribution, add two levels, if a plane besides a commercial airliner, (ie,you chartered a plane to pick up dope or precursors) add another 2 forth and so on.

this site has a few easy to understand ferderal guidelines.
growing less than 100 plants (ie. 98 plants; roots count as a plant) you wont step into federal guidelines. grow 101 and your fucked. 5 grams of crack gets you 5 years, 4 gets you 1 year

Don't you think if I had something intelligent to say, it would bee in my post?
(Hive Bee)
11-07-04 02:18
No 540104
User Picture 
      this is an equivalency chart.     

this is an equivalency chart. it basicly says if you get caught with this much sub.x it the same as gettin busted with this much marijuana:
Cocaine and Other Schedule I and II Stimulants (and their immediate precursors)* 
1 gm of Cocaine = 200 gm of marihuana
1 gm of N-Ethylamphetamine = 80 gm of marihuana
1 gm of Fenethylline = 40 gm of marihuana
1 gm of Amphetamine = 2 kg of marihuana
1 gm of Amphetamine (Actual) = 20 kg of marihuana
1 gm of Methamphetamine = 2 kg of marihuana
1 gm of Methamphetamine (Actual) = 20 kg of marihuana
1 gm of "Ice" = 20 kg of marihuanaMSM still counts when its in the same bag!hehehe
1 gm of Khat = .01 gm of marihuanaeven the govn knows cat sucks
1 gm of 4-Methylaminorex ("Euphoria")= 100 gm of marihuana
1 gm of Methylphenidate (Ritalin)= 100 gm of marihuana
1 gm of Phenmetrazine = 80 gm of marihuana
1 gm Phenylacetone/P2P (when possessed for the purpose of manufacturing methamphetamine) = 416 gm of marihuana
1 gm Phenylacetone/P2P (in any other case) = 75 gm of marihuana
1 gm of Cocaine Base ("Crack") = 20 kg of marihuana
1 gm of Aminorex = 100 gm of marihuana
1 gm of Methcathinone = 380 gm of marihuana
1 gm of N-N-Dimethylamphetamine = 40 gm of marihuana 
 *Provided, that the minimum offense level from the Drug Quantity Table for any of these controlled substances individually, or in combination with another controlled substance, is level 12.notice the level charge here. if you had a handgun while having the dope, add two levels. if you used a plane other than a commercial airliner, then the level is brought to a minimum of a "26".
this link has all the drug charges for dist. and manufacture:

also i find interesting they take into consideration the cns activity and/or relative potency of simalar substances. for example:

1 gm of Alpha-Methylfentanyl = 10 kg of marihuana
1 gm of 3-Methylfentanyl = 10 kg of marihuana
1 gm of Fentanyl (N-phenyl-N-[1-(2-phenylethyl)-4-piperidinyl] Propanamide) = 2.5 kg of marihuana

they know the methyl anologs of fentanyl are more potent, thus the change in equivalency.

Don't you think if I had something intelligent to say, it would bee in my post?
(Hive Bee)
11-07-04 11:15
No 540174
      I didn't go to jail,got 4 years on probation...     

I didn't go to jail,got 4 years on probation with 2,5 years test period which means if i commit on another crime i will go down for 4 years,that's of course if i get caught commiting that crime,you can be well sure i'll be doing nothing even remotely illegal during that peroid.A relative of mine got 1 year and 6 months(not probation) for the same crime which was manufacturing of 1 kg of nearly pure(95% acc. to GC-MS) MDMA.HCl
It's clear we aren't living in USA though...
EDIT:I didn't rat on anyone and also don't have any connections.
(Of Counsel)
11-07-04 14:47
No 540197

what are the determining factors that make a case be federal or not?

Usually, the agency that makes  the bust will determine whether the feds take the case or not. If the feds make the bust, they usually turn the case over to the Department of Justice. State authorities usually turn cases to their state prosecutors. Size will come in to play at times, with smaller cases being turned to state authorities, and larger ones going to federal authorities. Involvement across state lines will often prompt federal participation. There is no hard and fast rule, however. Some state busts are taken by the feds, fewer federal busts are turned to state authorities.

mostly harmless
11-08-04 06:32
No 540373
      Where I live the penalty is the highest for...     

Where I live the penalty is the highest for manufacturer.  Lowest for the user, then small time dealers, major dealers and manufacturers.  The cops usually try to talk the small fish to get to the bigger fish.  I have seen some small fish pointed pointed to a bigger fish not of his source which teaches me that you can not trust people.  People will do whatever they can including selling out thier friends in order to save their own.  I know that the severity of penalty also depends on the scale of what you have committed.  I don't know how severe it is for a bee who cooks honey for his own consumption (for the reason that there is so much of rip-off and bad stuff out there due to blind law enforcement which makes what should be regulated be totally unregulated)
(Hive Bee)
11-08-04 06:36
No 540375
      Where i live penalties also run accordingly...     

Where i live penalties also run accordingly but greatly depend on earlier criminal activity,social status(ie if you have any kids etc) and even caracter.If they see you'd probably never commit a crime like that again,they don't punish so harsh.Sometimes dealer gets 3 years for few doses of junk and manufacturer of 1 kg like cub gets nothing(ie probation)
11-08-04 07:11
No 540380
      I guess I have seen similairites in my ...     

I guess I have seen similairites in my countries, but I can not say that it is based on sound justice.  There is, without a doubt in where I live, corruption which large scale dealers and manufacturers can buy his way out from jail if he does it quickly enough i.e. before the case is filed or before the news paper gets the story.  Where I live, there are many cops who bust from one district and sell them in another district.  The government is trying to get rid of bad cops but it will take time and I am not sure if it will be ever successful.  As long as there is a war on drugs, price of the drugs will be high and will attract people to take a chance to enter into the business.  it is a vicious circle.
(Bone Smuggler)
11-08-04 21:14
No 540475
      Federal Busts     

We have a pretty active DEA agent that assists frequently on the service of search warrants. When he is available to assist and guns are present, the case is usually accepted by the US Attorney. Generally, the Feds take the case if there is a significant amount of substance along with the presence of firearms. We can count on the Feds being interested if we get more than 10 g or so and guns present at the time of the bust. (Keep in mind that in prosecution the gram amount includes adulterants and dilutants. A meth cook in progress almost always has over 400 grams if the product is still in a solution. We charge the total volume including the solvent.) We frequently have their assistance on the execution of search warrants. Most of our investigators that work narcotics have attended the DEA schools provided in North Texas.

If you check the lists above,you'll see that the presence of a firearm will up the minimums on the federal sentencing guidelines.

Short answer: Feds take cases they make on their own. Feds take State cases if they assist, there are weapons, and there is a significant amount of narcotics. (over 10 grams or so)
(Of Counsel)
11-08-04 21:42
No 540485
      gun charge     

A number of federal districts have elected to automatically take drug cases where a gun is involved. I have seen some where the federal mandatory five year sentence on the gun count is the basis of the decision to charge federal rather than state, with the US Attorney agreeing to take a case with no initial federal involvement. This smacks of forum shopping by the prosecution, in my book. I have seen the forum shopping done when it was called for, in my opinion (and with my client!) but have seen it used reflexively when it wasn't appropriate. I'm certain your view of appropriate and my view of appropriate differ, but I remind you that my view of appropriate was formed with time on both sides of the fence... as prosecutor and as defense lawyer.

I have seen several federal busts without weapon involvement that resulted in smaller than expected seizures, or possession offenses rather than manufacturing offenses, that were charged "down" to local authorities although the bust was federal. That may not be routine practice, and there may be "cooperation" inducements from the defendants leading to charging in state rather than federal court.

mostly harmless
(Bone Smuggler)
11-08-04 22:21
No 540494
      "Charged Down"     

I've never seen one "charged down" as you put it. Most of our raids have local Feds involved, so I haven't seen one bumped up either. I understand that it happens though. Personally, I think if the Feds want it, they should participate. The only cases I've sent federally have had at least one DEA agent present, usually with one or to FBI guys as well. And yes, we were forum shopping.

I felt dirty doing it, but it did fit the qualifications. The Sheriff's Deputies were excited that the cases went federal because of the higher probability of punishment.
(Of Counsel)
11-09-04 04:27
No 540571

The Sheriff's Deputies were excited that the cases went federal because of the higher probability of punishment.

Of all the reasons for sentence and punishment in the entire concept of "corrections," the delight a sheriff's deputy takes in the length of defendant's sentence is the least material. Or important.

mostly harmless
(Hive Bee)
11-09-04 06:35
No 540591
User Picture 
      Guns and drugs     

You don't want these two together here, or probably anywhere for that matter. It will pretty much double the time you serve, or worse. frown

11-09-04 14:40
No 540645
      My government declared a war on drug a couple...     

My government declared a war on drug a couple of years ago.  Many people got arrested, many dealers got killed (and some cops as well) in the raids and busts.  However, they have never really caught the the big drug lords.  There were also killings of dealers or smugglers who got caught in order to keep their mouths shut.  It is difficult to say whether the bigger fish who manufacture the drug or the big shot corrupted officers ordered the killings. 

The results? Drugs are still available, more expensive, lower quality (and more dangerous) and the drug lords are still alive and well.  The people who are in the middle and the lower end of the chains get hurt the most.

Anyway I don't think that my government will solve the problem this way. 

I saw innocent people get busted and the cops framed them by putting both drugs and guns in their possesions.  If the bad cops really want to arrest someone, they can find a way to frame their victim.
11-09-04 22:09
No 540706

I completely agree with you, Geez.
11-10-04 23:58
No 540934
      Probation is a (slim) possibility...     

Under the U.S. Federal Guidelines, if you have little or no prior offense history, and if the offense involved manufacture of a small amount of a depressant substance in any schedule, or a substance of any pharmacology in Schedule III, IV, or V, and the offense resulted in no danger to human life or damage to the environment, and no three-neck flask was used, probation, home detention, and/or a halfway house is a possibility. If you are convicted of manufacturing a Schedule I or II stimulant, opiate, or hallucinogen, the guidelines require imprisonment.

For example, manufacturing 100 dosage units of methaqualone, a depressant, would qualify you for probation instead of jail time, but the smallest amount of meth or MDMA would require imprisonment.

Please note also that just because you are eligible to receive probation under the guidelines does not mean that the judge HAS to sentence you to probation instead of incarceration.
(Of Counsel)
11-11-04 00:15
No 540938
      the substance in question     

W-K: The substance in question is MDMA, thus the response.

mostly harmless
11-11-04 06:33
No 540975
      "and no three-neck flask was used...     

"and no three-neck flask was used..."

Hmm.. Why would it matter if three-neck flask was used or not?  Anyway, the substance of MDMA is really of the concern.
(Chief Bee)
11-11-04 07:27
No 540982
User Picture 
      Three-neck flasks are prohibited in Texas     

Three-neck flasks are prohibited in Texas: Post 322986 (former_chemist: "Interesting facts about Texas", Law and Order)

The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders
11-11-04 15:51
      "Three-neck flasks are prohibited in...
(Rated as: redundant)
11-12-04 21:36
No 541280
      There are too many variables in any case to...     

There are too many variables in any case to determine the eventual disposition without viewing all the evidence. SWIM was caught with a little less than 2 oz. of meth with greater than 95% purity per LE testing. He also had a collection of lab equipment (including 2 three necked flasks) that he estimated the purchase price of in excess of $5000 US. All lab equipment was clean at time of raid. Search warrant was signed by juvenile judge who was removed from the bench six weeks after the raid for "improper procedures regarding search warrants". The judge was susequently disbarred for the same offenses. SWIM owned property in two counties and had a promising career so he paid a lot of taxes. In light of the suspicious activities of the judge who approved the original warrant, SWIM was offered 5 years probation in exchange for a "no contest" plea. SWIM never ratted (lucky for me)and was released on good behaviour in 3 years. So, no, manufacturers do not always go to jail. You can get lucky once in a while, or you can get a good lawyer. SWIM credits his lawyer for his freedom just as much as the crooked warrant.

I suffer from reverse paranoia. I think everyone is out to help me.
(Of Counsel)
11-13-04 00:25
No 541305
      state v. federal     

Stan... the question refers to federal prosecutions, not state ones.

mostly harmless
11-13-04 17:50
No 541396
      Re: Hmm.. Why would it matter if three-neck...     

Hmm.. Why would it matter if three-neck flask was used or not?  Anyway, the substance of MDMA is really of the concern.

Possession of a three-neck flask with intent to manufacture a controlled substance results in a sentencing enhancement that raises the guideline level to one of mandatory imprisonment, regardless of the substance manufactured.

I know the topic was specifically about MDMA, but I was answering the more general question of, "Do drug manufacturers always go to jail?"


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