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All 49 posts   Subject: Lithium/Anhydrous/Sudafed ...Li(NH3)n + e-(NH3)m   Please login to post   Down

 
    reeB_relliM
(Stranger)
10-25-04 06:36
No 537633
      Lithium/Anhydrous/Sudafed ...Li(NH3)n + e-(NH3)m     

SWIM has only done this a few times, so obviously like most things that newbies might be getting into, there are a handfull of questions that he often wonders about, things that he might be doing wrong, or things that could be done a little differently to improve his yields. So SWIM would greatly appreciate any/all advise, tips, or suggestions.

Okay, SWIM would first mention that he doesn't have the luxury of doing this in an indoor labratory with the good equipment like beakers, vacuum pumps, glass stirring rods, etc.   ...so please try to bear w/ him (lol!)

He starts out by using a "good" heavy duty metal fire extinguisher to transport his anhydrous to a place way out in the backwoods (...he understands both the physical and legal dangers of doing it like this, and takes every precaution possible). Now, he bleeds off the tank very slowly always aiming downwind (shifting winds really suck, lol!), and once bled, he pours a small amount of anhydrous into a clean, empty, dry 5 gallon Igloo cooler type water jug, he just eyeballs the (gu)estimated amount, usually about 3" of liquid does the trick.

Then, he quickly takes apart about 4 or 5 "AA" lithium batteries, and one by one takes just the dull silver colored lithium strips and submerges and stirs them into the anhydrous liquid by using a wooden spoon.

Then, after the lithium is completely dissolved, SWIM takes a previously prepared baggie of finely ground up powdered Sudafed (usually from about 8 boxs of 96 ct. 30 mg generic brand Sudafed ground well with Coffee grinder) and slowly stirs in the powder until completely saturated or at least enough to make wet sludge.

Then, he pours a full can of Colemans fuel into a separate transparent and sealable container along with a gallon of distilled water, and then he shakes the mixture of fuel and water vigorously for a few minutes, this container has a valve on the bottom which comes in handy for draining off the nasty oily rust inhibitor crap that come in Colemans fuel.

After bleeding off the water/oil layer, SWIM adds the fuel to his big Igloo cooler, and she brews instantly and starts to react and bubble like crazy (...sweet!)

Then while she's brewin' up, swim cleans up his mess, and discards the garbage into a hole in the ground, then covers it up real good. Then, he usually will leave the area for a while (3 or 4 hours, sometimes longer) to let his magic brew "do its thing".

Upon returning, he retrieves the large jug and takes it back home with him (..what a nerve racking ride this can be, especially if it's still ventilating).

When back home, SWIM puts his smelly brew out on his flat top roof, and stirs the mixture a few times every so often, he then uses a cheap paper plate and folds it into 4ths to look like a B-day party hat (lol!), then uses a regular funnel sitting on top of a large, clean, dry glass jar, and then places the folded up paper plate into the funnel, and slowly pours the liquid from the Igloo jug into the paper plate to ensure that he only gets strained liquid  into his glass jar. However, sometimes changing the paper plate is necessary, as it becomes clogged with sludge.

After all the liquid has been filtered, he takes the glass jar now w/ a tightly secured lid, and brings it indoors where SWIM uses an electric heating pad (...the kind ususally used for muscle aches) to wrap tightly around the jar for warming up the solution, after heated up nicely,  ...he then uses a small gas can fixed with long   transparent 1/4" hose, and also with a filter in between can and end of hose, he will pour about a 1/2" to 1" of Muratic Acid into the gas can, and using small pieces of regular tinfoil wadded up into nice and tight balls, SWIM drops a few into the can and quickly replace the lid, ...then after it starts to gas, with the end of the hose submerged into the jar of solution and about 1" from the bottom, SWIM slowly swirls the hose around the bottom of jar as the blizzard occurs. After gassing for a few minutes and adding a few more pieces of foil, he will then take the jar and usuing a funnel and clean paper plate again, will pour through the plate, and whatever that's filtered out and remains inside the paper plate, SWIM will usually set off to the side outdoors on the roof and using something to weight it down to prevent the wind from taking off with it down the street somewhere (..that would really suck!),  ...but it only takes a little while until it is fully dried.

NOW,  ...SWIM has a few burning questions for the much more experienced and educated members of the board.

1)What is best to use for fuel (or solvent)?

So far SWIM has only used Colemans lantern fuel (red & white can at Wally World) and Prestone starting fluid, as Prestone seems to be fairly clean straight from the can, ...however, SWIM wonders if maybe there is something better that can be used. Please advise.

2) Also, should the situation ever arise where SWIM doesn't have the required time it takes to bubble his solution, how long can this stuff sit in a Igloo cooler with the lid on tight (it's still able to vent any excessive pressure, ...but barely) and still remain "good", not having too much effect on the yield?

3) After solution has been bubbled or gassed once, and then filtered out the goods,  ...can one expect to net anything else out of it if the already gassed once solution was poured back into the Igloo jug to sit on top of the mud to sit for a period of time?

3)SWIM had read about warming up the solution before bombing it, and is under the impression that this helps to get better, higher yields,  ...some of your thoughts about this?

4) Is there a certain amount of time it should be heated for? How warm is an optimal temp to reach before bubbling the solution?

Please correct SWIMs views wherever you feel it's needed. He's hoping to learn more from your input.

Thanks in advance.
  reeB

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    Stonium
(BEE-OTCH)
10-25-04 11:38
No 537666
      Post 309268     

Post 309268 (Rhodium: "Meth related posts go in the STIMULANTS forum!", Newbee Forum)

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.
-Howard Zinn



 
 
 
 
    maj
(Newbee)
10-25-04 11:48
No 537670
User Picture 
      RE     

1.  Sure you can use anything non-polar(I.E xylene,toluene,naptha)  Swim would use toluene its wonderful at pulling that FB

2.If you want you can put it in a mason jar until needed.

3. Swim would gas 4 times just a number.  However evaporate your non-polar solvent/'fb see if theres something left.

4.  Room temperature is fine.
 
 
 
 
    biotechdude
10-25-04 12:10
      edit - im retarted
(Rated as: redundant)
    
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Stranger)
10-26-04 10:32
No 537889
      Stonium - Sorry 'bout posting in wrong section.     

Ooops! blush That was my first post here, ..and was an honest mistake,  ...sorry 'bout that (..no sarcasm intended). 

Thanks for your responses, ..very much appreciated.

Also, SWIM is tring to figure out an overall better method of gassing. He currently does this outdoors, and not very far away from his home,   ...seems almost impossible to do this anywhere and still feel somewhat comfortable at the same time(lol!) SWIM is looking for some ideas on how he can do this differently. While gassing, is it really all that important to keep the end of hose close to the bottom of the jar of solution, and also to keep it slowly but constantly moving it in a circular motion?? If the hose was placed into solution in a fixed position (but still remaining about 1" from bottom) is this just not very effective? Please bear with me on this learning curve, ...I do realize that some of my questions may sound rather basic and simple to some of you guys, but we all gotta start out somewhere.

In regards to the latest gakk pill fillers that seem to be hitting the shelves these days, please tell me if any, some , or all of the following fillers are known to cause big problems.

Carnauba Wax, dibasic calcium phosphate, FD&C red no. 40 aluminum lake,hypromellose, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, polyethylene glycol 80, silicon dioxide, titanium dioxide.

Thanks again!
reeB_relliM

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    maj
(Newbee)
10-26-04 13:23
No 537908
User Picture 
      Re     

To tell you the truth I would be more worried about the smell of that ammonia and its vapor than HCL gas.  However the best way of obtaining 'salts' of methamphetamine IMO is dripping conc. sulfuric acid on some salt.  You can find Conc Sulfuric acid at your local hardware store.  To make sure it is concentrated pick up the bottle it has a heavier weight than ordaninary bottles around there, so to speak.  Reading the label is equally important. 

Oh and also you could do single methyl alchol pulls on psuedo to get out the 'fillers' .  Simplly take you psuedo cover with methyl alchol shake the hell out of it, let it settle , now filter off the clear liquid and evaporate your solution over a heat source( electrical mind you).  See the  reaction that occurs in this type of chemical equation is a stong motherfucker and reduces anything thrown its way in swims experience , exept occasionaly you'll get stuck with some clean psuedo in the bottem that didn't get reduced, save it and use it on another adventure.  So far you do not need to worry about gakks unless your trying to do a I/Rp or  hypo reduction.

Also you need to take some epsom salt , place in a glass dish - tinfoil , and set your oven on 400 F  and sit you epsom salt in there for an hour. This will give you chunks of 'drying' agent or anhydrous magnesuim sulfate.  Store this  'drying' agent in a sealed glass container relatively away from moisture.  Now your gonna need to go and get some 91% Isopropal alchol from the local pharmacy, I have heard you can obtain anhydrous IPA from your local auto parts store too.  Pour you alchol over this drying agent and let it sit for awhile, then pour out your mixture through a filter to strain any salt from geting through.  You could chunk it in there powder but mixing the psuedo and IPA allows it to mix better which in turn gets more psuedo reduced which =more dope.  And it doesn't clump up.
Now add your dryed psuedo to your now anhydrous Isopropal alcohol about 5-8 ml to the gram or when you got a nice consistently 'wet' mixture.   

Peel those energizers, soak em in that colemans fuel your no longer gonna need.  I would in my opinion add about three AA batteries to the ounce (psuedo). Considering your gonna have to reduce more than just psuedo unless your working with freebase clean psuedo which isn't necessary here.  It really doesn't matter if you add the batteries or the psuedo its stricly a personal preference.  Alright now for the fun part.  If you don't care about how much Anhydrous Ammonia you use then ok but if you wanted to measure it out, for 2 ounces use about half a liter or 500 ml. Add IPA/psuedo mixture slowly so there is no splashingshocked don't wanna go and get your self all fucked up.cool

Let the reaction run its part till its done.  Then you need to add some distilled water , not to much.  You can then add your sodium hydroxide and toluene,xylene,or other non-polar solvent.  Give this mixture a thorough shaking.  Let it settle and seperate your aqueos layer from your freebase layer.  Keeping both till you make certain you have the right one is always a good rule of thumb. 

Time to gas those goods .   Filter out all your dope and let it dry.  You can even evaporate the mixture left to see if anything else evolves.  You can then recrystallize your dope  for a clean and better time had by all.  Or notblush

Also I forgot when gassing you don't have to even stick the tube into the dope/np mixture.  To tell you the truth it won't clog if you do it that way. Just hover the end of tube  close to the liquid.  Don't forget to get your coat theres gonna be a blizzard.

Little_fat_boy is bad for your health
 
 
 
 
    imaphatbastard
(energized)
10-26-04 16:18
No 537924
User Picture 
      Oh that sweet smelly!     

Never wait around peelin your batts when you got your smelly evapin in the air its always best to have everything good to go once you get your smelly all poured out.
In my opionion colemans works about as good as anything.After you do that water wash on it(your colemans).I would suggest drying it with a generous amount of epsoms.You will notice a big difference if youve never tried it before.
Also when your smelly evaps all the way hit it again with some more smelly but go EASY on the batts this time.Let her boil down then throw in your colemans.
Good luck.
Have anybees ran into the hot pink smelly yet(glowtell)?

Imaphatbastard

                      Got Meth!
 
 
 
 
    micro
(Hive Bee)
10-26-04 22:06
No 537977
      Imaphatbastard is right when he says have...     

Imaphatbastard is right when he says have everything ready all at once but if you want to carry it one step further then there is no need to worry about coleman fuel to keep your li in.Simply just peel the darn things and place them in a ziplock. They will keep for hours this way.Not only that but when its time to unroll them they will still be shiny just like if you just peeled them,unlike that dull look after they been suspended in the coleman's..........
 
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Stranger)
10-27-04 04:30
No 538038
      Wow! ...learnin' something new everyday =)     

Wow! Thanks for the great replies!!!!! That's awesome!

Yes, SWIM does worry about the smell of the liquid anyhdrous, but that's why he takes it way - way out in the back woods to the bleed off the tank and to mix the anhydrous/lithium/pills/ ...and then solvent. SWIM also lets it sit for several hours to do its thing.

The gassing is done closer to his home, since all the misc filtering is always so time consuming, he feels the need to be nearby so he can wash/dry jars (limited on jars so he's gotta do this). Sometimes he can only filter out one jar (large sized) of the solution at a time, so he usually has lots of dicking around involved before he every gets everything finally done (argh!). SO, would it make more sense to filter out all of the solution into one huge sized jar (one big enough to hold it all). Then just gas the big jar all in one big shebang?? Or is it better pull and gas several different times using the smaller jars?

Thanks again!
  reeB

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    lilbumper
(Stranger)
10-27-04 06:16
No 538057
      I think     

I think that gassing techniques are really just what one prefers.  Swim had someone tell her that the hose HAS to be placed into the solution.  She actually likes the snow storms that occur while hovering the tip of the hose just over the np.  Also, Swim moves in circular motion while tapping the bottle against table rather than squeezing it.  This works well for her.

micro--really?  So, swim can peel batts and place in zip lock,say 15 mins before her annie is ready? They won't lose any li?

lilbumper
 
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Stranger)
10-27-04 07:00
No 538066
      Hmmm, I kinda wondered about that as well...     

SWIM didn't know that you could simply put these into a zip lock baggie. Just figured that since these batteries are so dangerous, especially given the fact that they could easily spark a blaze around chemicals, ..SWIM had always figured that it'd prolly be safest and less risky of any possible loss of any Li or starting a fire, so he just waits to peel the batts right after his "annie" has already been poured. SWIM usually will place the lid over the top of his container (loosly, ..not sealed) to help aid against the speed of evaporation of the "annie" while he's peeling his batts) Though, SWIM has gotten much quicker and is getting this battery peeling process down to a sciencewink.

reeb

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    Jade
(soccer mom)
10-27-04 11:07
No 538093
User Picture 
      suggestion     


IPA allows it to mix better which in turn gets more psuedo reduced which =more dope.  And it doesn't clump up.
Now add your dryed psuedo to your now anhydrous Isopropal alcohol about 5-8 ml to the gram or when you got a nice consistently 'wet' mixture.




If you do this way, mix enough to just make it a little slushy, put in an air tight container and place it in freezer until your ready to use it.

Also, I haven't seen anyone mention the importance of stirring the rxn?  Stir, stir, stir!

Always make sure you have enough nh3 handy.  It is better (and safer) to have too much than not enough.crazy

I'm not sure I would want to take a chance on putting li in a baggie.  Why chance it?  A birch rxn is dangerous enough without taking unnessary risks.  Better safe than sorry.


There's a terrorist behind every Bush.
 
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Stranger)
10-27-04 20:38
No 538137
      So, please explain something...     

SWIM had thought that the amount of anhydrous wasn't really all that important, just as long as it is enough to break down the lithium strips,  ...but he's getting some conflicting info, as Jade says that "It is better (and safer) to have too much than not enough", and I've heard others say just the opposite. Please shed some light in the grey areas.

Thanks!!
 reeb

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    maj
(Hive Bee)
10-27-04 20:49
No 538139
User Picture 
      Re     

In this case there is no wrong answer.  You want enough to reduce your Lithium to  turn you ephedrine into methamphetamine freebase.  However that amount I put in my post is by far sufficient.  If you go by 350 ml for first ounce and each additional ounce add 150 ml of anhydrous ammonia. From MR. Cleans Birch Reduction post it says a theoretical minimum is 39 ml.  That is far less than 350 for one ounce of ephedrine.
Being said that you could do the same reaction with a gallon of anhydrous ammonia which would be overkill in my opinion.  But when it comes crunch time you want to know you got more if you somehow fuck up and all your Li isn't reducing.  cool

I took the one less traveled by,And that has made all the difference.
 
 
 
 
    Jade
(soccer mom)
10-27-04 21:12
No 538149
User Picture 
      Safety first     

My reply was for safety reasons.  If you don't have enough nh3 handy, you may end up with the li catching on fire.  Trust me on this one, okay?  Also, your rxn is based on the ratio of E/Li, not nh3.

There's a terrorist behind every Bush.
 
 
 
 
    jboogie
(Newbee)
10-27-04 22:23
No 538177
      jade is right...     

the birch is much more dangerous when the solution is near to over-saturated. even more so with sodium or cesisium. the extra AA dilutes any moistures present so that xbooms dont happen. very important. many learned this the hard way... "1 drop of sweat will set it off" is what hear... probably not true but not gonna test it, either.wink

diacetylmorphomaniac
 
 
 
 
    micro
(Hive Bee)
10-27-04 23:08
No 538197
      There have been many times where there has...     

There have been many times where there has been an abundance of li left with nothing left to reduce......Swim always carries a small vial of h2o with him in case this happens. After the 15-20 minute wait of wanting it to turn grey but does not,he simply holds the vial above the rxn vessel and starts adding drops of h2o until completely neutralized or totally grey....Has never been an instance where these drops have caused any type of fire or explosion.....
 
 
 
 
    jboogie
(Hive Bee)
10-27-04 23:46
No 538206
      scarry...     

well, that disproves that old cook's tale. i still dont think that is the ideal manner to deal with an excess of water reactive material, though. have you tried to strain and keep in kerosene for future rxns?

diacetylmorphomaniac
 
 
 
 
    lilbumper
(Stranger)
10-28-04 04:24
No 538249
      A couple     

Couple of questions to add here (thanks reeb for starting this thread, it's turning out to be quite informativewink).
Does the reaction need to be completely, almost powdery, dry before you add np?
Also, someone above mentioned waiting for the gray.  Should the reaction be grey or white? Swim's is usually gray, but has seen someone else be pure white.

Just curious,
lilbumper
 
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Stranger)
10-28-04 07:31
No 538277
      Yeeeeeee(MotherFuckin')Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!     

SWIM thinks that using toluene may have done something foul here,  ..SWIM and friends dunno what to think just yet. Thought that everything was coming together nicely, and gassing produced snow,  ...however, after filtering the liquid off the dope, from there he just had let it completely evaporate (nice windy night), ..but after the first pull dried, SWIMS buddy wanted to try it out (..he usually bangs it up), so he put it into his spoon, added some water to it, and as he was trying to break it down using the back end of his plunger, ..he says, "whoa WTF dude, this shit is eating right through the hard plastic!!". SWIM checked it out, and sure enough, as he dragged the plungers end across the bottom of spoon, the plastic was actually melting down and it left a layer of smeared plastic in the spoon,  ...what's up with that??

Has something been overlooked? Please help. The stuff didn't look like it was breaking clean either, real weird, water on top of oil like, looked as though the spoon was teflon coated cuz the dope was sticking back together,   ..kinda hard to explain. Man, that shit stinks to high heaven, too. Whew!! 

What could be the problem here? SWIM didn't try what "maj" had suggested with baking the epsom salt etc. He figured he'd wait to try that next time.

Mixed the Li in with the "annie", then slowly stirred in the fine ground powder from the pills. Stirred very well, let annie evaporate off a bit, then he slowly poured on his Sunnyside Toulene, stirring the mix (gasping for air),  ...he let it run its course, then filtered the solution and gassed,  ...snowed pretty good, but the shit is eating through plastic. SWIM accidently sat the wet paper plate down on the window sill just for a second, when he lifted it again, it took the paint off the window sill blush

Please tell me what might be the problem.    


Thanks for the much need help with this, he appreciates it very much!!

reeB

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    micro
(Hive Bee)
10-28-04 11:08
No 538300
      Do ya a tone wash.......     

Do ya a tone wash.......
 
 
 
 
    maj
(Hive Bee)
10-28-04 11:42
No 538305
User Picture 
      RE     

Being as though I never knew dope to eat through anything besides some peoples nasal cavaties.  It sounds like solvent.  I know Toluene will definetly eat plastics, and it will definetly take paint off of a window seal.  Be that as it may I would pour all your dried dope into a glass pot with denatured alchol. (heat resistant)corning or pyrex  Heat this mixture up disolving all methamphetamine and then boil it down till you see a little film covering the top of your surface.  Then with some already very cold acetone from your freezer pour you about 100 ml into the hot denatured alcohol/methamphetamine mixture.  Set into freezer for a few hours come back you should have pure crystals .  Filter off cold and rinse with cold acetone to remove excess contaminents.  It kinda reminds me of ice.  However do not be distraught if huge chunks of 'ice'do not evolve. It may be only tiny crystals you gotta play with it and tweak it to your personal preferencelaugh.  This is recrystallizing.

I took the one less traveled by,And that has made all the difference.
 
 
 
 
    Jade
(soccer mom)
10-28-04 11:52
No 538310
User Picture 
      yes.     


Does the reaction need to be completely, almost powdery, dry before you add np?




Yes, it needs to be dry.  Swim has seen gray to real dirty white but never pure white. 


Mixed the Li in with the "annie", then slowly stirred in the fine ground powder from the pills. Stirred very well, let annie evaporate off a bit, then he slowly poured on his Sunnyside Toulene, stirring the mix (gasping for air),  ...he let it run its course, then filtered the solution and gassed




Did swim allow his to dry first?


There's a terrorist behind every Bush.
 
 
 
 
    imaphatbastard
(energized)
10-28-04 19:43
No 538353
User Picture 
      Yes jade!     


Also,I havent seen anyone mention the importance of stirring the rxn? Stir, stir, stir!



Good point Jade stirring is super important and insures a good reduction.In a perfect world a lab stirer would be great but when without improvise and Stir, stir, stir!


                      Got Meth!
 
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Stranger)
10-29-04 01:13
No 538403
      2nd paragraph of my very first post - ...     

2nd paragraph of my very first post -

"Okay, SWIM would first mention that he doesn't have the luxury of doing this in an indoor labratory with the good equipment like beakers, vacuum pumps, glass stirring rods, etc.   ...so please try to bear w/ him (lol!)"

Also, given the terrible smell this stuff emits, there is no way swim can boil this stuff, he has no electric warmer, or the facilities in which to do so. SWIM is screwed for nowfrown.

SWIM still has lotsa solution left to bubble, WHAT SHOULD HE DO??  Please help!

Jade - It was a very thick mud ball at the time when the toluene was added.

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Stranger)
10-29-04 04:45
No 538445
      Please advise, ...SWIM needs some advise.     

SWIM put some on a piece of foil, and with flame under it, the shit does nothing, it doesn't melt, and the small rocks slide up and down the foil,  ...very strange indeed.

Don't know what to do now, swim had only filtered and gassed a small amount from the entire batch. So, he now wonders what can he do. Please respond soon. SWIM is stuck for now, and needs some further advisement as to what steps to take.

Thanks!
reeB

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Stranger)
10-29-04 08:37
No 538491
      Well, ...this stuff isn't disolving in dntd alcoh     

Well,  ...I put the stuff into a glass pyrex dish, then poured in some denatured alcohol, brought it to a boil and beyond with lotsa stirring and this stuff isn't disolving at all,  ...I let it boil for  a while, though some of it disolved, most of it is still not disolving.

Anyway, just for shits and giggles, I put some cold acetone on it and put it into the freezer, we'll see what happens.

Damn, I wish somebody would respond and help me out here...........

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    marykane
(Stranger)
10-29-04 08:57
No 538493
      Q from a retarded 11 y/o boy     

alright i know this will sound like a stupid question but its the only part i dont get. "Then, after the lithium is completely dissolved, SWIM takes a previously prepared baggie of finely ground up powdered Sudafed (usually from about 8 boxs of 96 ct. 30 mg generic brand Sudafed ground well with Coffee grinder) and slowly stirs in the powder until completely saturated or at least enough to make wet sludge." Are you really just grinding up the sudafed pillz in a coffee grinder plain and simple. dont binderz and waxes and shit gakk up the dope? answer the question and i promise ill never even write another post in here again. I just wanna know what I been smokin
 
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Stranger)
10-29-04 10:46
No 538504
      Yep, plain and simple, ...obviously you can go     

Yep, plain and simple, ...obviously you can go through all the steps to void most of the binders out, but with this recipe, it usually doesn't effect much,  ...at least SWIM hasn't had any real problems with any gakk. The main reason SWIM doesn't go through with all those steps, is simply because he doesn't have the luxury of having all the needed lab tools etc. to work with.

SWIN had read what maj said above:
"Oh and also you could do single methyl alchol pulls on psuedo to get out the 'fillers' .  Simplly take you psuedo cover with methyl alchol shake the hell out of it, let it settle , now filter off the clear liquid and evaporate your solution over a heat source( electrical mind you).  See the  reaction that occurs in this type of chemical equation is a stong motherfucker and reduces anything thrown its way in swims experience , exept occasionaly you'll get stuck with some clean psuedo in the bottem that didn't get reduced, save it and use it on another adventure.  So far you do not need to worry about gakks unless your trying to do a I/Rp or  hypo reduction.

...and he will likely try this route next time around.

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    lilbumper
(Stranger)
11-01-04 06:39
No 539041
      Curious     

Just curious what ever came of this.  If it didn't melt on foil nor dissolve in alcohol, it wasn't what you wanted. So, what was it?  Where's your goods?

Swim is a bircher bee too.  She has never had this happen, but is interested to know the outcome in case it ever doescrazy

curious lil bee,
lilbumper
 
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Stranger)
11-01-04 08:15
No 539049
      Still awaiting the much needed advise.....     

"Just curious what ever came of this.  If it didn't melt on foil nor dissolve in alcohol, it wasn't what you wanted. So, what was it?  Where's your goods?

Swim is a bircher bee too.  She has never had this happen, but is interested to know the outcome in case it ever does"

Well,  ...since SWIMS problems with his batch had occurred rather late within this thread, so when SWIM posted his desperation call for much needed help seeking info on "what to do now", the post was buried deep within the thread, basically a late submitted post regarding a very new problem, appeared that my initial inquiry for help went unseen by many of the educated bees of the hive for quite a substantial amount of time, simply because those who'd read into the post once, now knew of what the subject started out as, thus figured it wasn't of any great big importance to re-read it again every time the thread bumped up and/or the next time they logged in, and so for whatever reasons my "crys for help" would go unanswered.

So, SWIM in a near state of panic, figured that perhaps he would have much better luck of getting a response if he were to post his problem "fresh" on a different section of the board where possibly more beez would see it. Well, this was wishful thinking at best. Because after he re-posted "fresh",  ...THEN this here thread was removed and marked as "cross-linked", and in the new thread SWIM was basically flamed and ridiculed for cross-posting, and the thread was "closed", even when it was about a new problem and where "time" was most likely "of the essence". 

That's what SWIM gets for figuring.

Couple days later, and now this thread has re-appeared again.

So, to answer your question, ..no, still needing some information as to what steps can be taken to fix this mess and to avoid from getting "salt" instead of "dope" when bubbling again.

Still haven't bubbled the bulk of the batch yet, was really hoping to get some advise first.

Thanks!
 reeB

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    Jade
(soccer mom)
11-01-04 11:15
No 539060
User Picture 
      ?     


Mixed the Li in with the "annie", then slowly stirred in the fine ground powder from the pills. Stirred very well, let annie evaporate off a bit, then he slowly poured on his Sunnyside Toulene, stirring the mix (gasping for air),  ...he let it run its course, then filtered the solution and gassed,  ...snowed pretty good, but the shit is eating through plastic. SWIM accidently sat the wet paper plate down on the window sill just for a second, when he lifted it again, it took the paint off the window sill




I think you have all your answers in this thread already.  You just need to listen to them.

Did you get a deep blue color with your li/nh3?  You already stated that you just dumped a "mud ball" in your np which leads me to believe that you never completed the rxn to begin with.  Combine that with the dirty pill stock and I'd say you've found the problem.  If you don't have the place or the equipment to do it right then don't expect it to come out right.  Sorry, but that's the way it is.crazy


There's a terrorist behind every Bush.
 
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Stranger)
11-01-04 17:10
No 539090
      Yes, was very deep blue, almost black.......     

Jade - Yes, it was noted of a very deep blue color, almost black...  SWIM may not have the luxury of having facilities and equipment, but he surely doesn't just carelessly throw everything in a pot together, call it "good", then up and walk off. NOT the case. Where did you get any such statement of "just dumping a mud ball in the np"?  As if SWIM knowingly went on with it, knowing that the shit was gonna get fucked up?? Too much blood, sweat, and tears is involved in all the steps taken to finally accomlish this process.

Jade -  Please keep in mind, as was already mentioned before, that SWIM has had success with every single batch he's ever made prior to this one, this should tell you something other than what you're thinking.

Another bee had made a very interesting point, he said that the toluene is an all around better, more powerful np solvent than that of the Colemans fuel, which could very well mean that some of the impurities were drawn into the dope as well, where-as SWIM didn't have this problem before since the Colemans fuel is a much weaker np solvent.

Sounds logical,  ...leaves just one question, how to go about fixing it, if at all possible?

Thanks!
reeB

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Stranger)
11-04-04 12:04
No 539637
      FWIW SWIM would really like to hear some ideas...     

If possible, SWIM would really appreciate some ideas and/or suggestions. Need information on how he might be able to fix this batch of "salt" like crap that he'd got back after bubbling with muriatic acid. 

The shit doesn't melt down, run, or burn on tinfoil (if trying to smoke it), and it isn't soluable in a spoon with water (if trying to prep it for IV use),  ...the shit looks good but even when its been completely dry for days, the shit still wreaks of toluene,  ..is this normal? I wouldn't think so, but who knows.

Still confused as ever... 

Thanks!
reeB

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    smokewonder
(Stranger)
11-04-04 13:52
No 539646
      tinfoil? where do you live     

hey a little off topic but dont you know about test tubes and blowtorches? tinfoil is not even comparible to a good ol pyrex 16x150. just wondering why people even smoke off foil anymore. That shit is as old a using a lightbulb ha!

there is nothing i could say that i havent thought before
 
 
 
 
    jboogie
(Hive Bee)
11-04-04 14:07
No 539649
      tinfoil...     

sometimes tinfoil is prefered when doing a burn-residue test. sometimes i dont have a test tube nearby. sometimes im in a hurry when i want to smoke.
yeah, glass is nice but not nessasary.

Don't you think if I had something intelligent to say, it would bee in my post?
 
 
 
 
    maj
(Hive Bee)
11-04-04 15:58
No 539672
User Picture 
      Well     

If you beleive the substance you have synthesised to be salt then there  is an alcohol extraction to be performed.  If you don't get back any methamphetamine I am at a loss for words.  I can not fathom what it would take to come to this.  IF YOU FOLLOWED MY DIRECTIONS.  Be that as it may lets see if we got any amines in that there salt.

1.  Dry the methanol-- with your already prepared Anhydrous Magnesium Sulfate  (RIGHT?) (Local auto parts store, gas line antifreeze, please read labels)

2.  Dump all 'salt' into methanol.  Salt will not dissolve in methanol  (unless you didn't dry it then there may be some loss)

3.  Pour solution through filter, catching all salt.

4.  Take saltless  liquid and evaporate.

5.  You should find your methamphetamine that was hiding.


However if there is no methamphetamine left after evaporation then the sythesis performed was really fucked up.  It is kinda hard to lose that much go-go.

I took the one less traveled by,And that has made all the difference.
 
 
 
 
    dwarfer
(esoteric)
11-04-04 22:30
No 539724
User Picture 
      OK here's what you need to do...     

loong time since anbody I heard of anywhere near here could
fling gups into a pail an get anything..

==============

read the thread on Intermediate studies of the sub ounce birch to see if anything works for you.

What i would do with ?? what you got:

dry it out entirely and include it in your next batch.

Grind your next batch  up with a like amount of NaCl.

Boil it in alcohol, dried: 100% isopropyl, or the stuff reffedin the other thread. Filter and dry the alcohol.

Extract again the same way.  dry.  Add to dry leavings and go for it.

At least this will probably reduce,
but it will still be shit.

Look up steam extraction with a tea kettle or something like that.

dont forget alcohol is flammable.

If you do not have a microwave to boil it in, put it in a pipe in boiling water,,,

Peaple might bitch about my microwave recommendation, but they don't know explosive limits..

<<outa here

dwarfer
 
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Stranger)
11-05-04 12:02
No 539844
      Thanks for the replies!!!     

So, without naming any specific sources,  ..where might SWIM find the right kind of methanol for this?? Also, in regards to denatured alcohol,  ..does the "Klean Strip" brand of "S-L-X Denatured Alcohol" sound about "right" to SWIY?? Just wanna bee sure SWIM has the correct stuff to work with, surely you bees can relate and understand. 

Hate to fire off a million questions all at once, but SWIM is very curious, and needs to know somethings that he couldn't find answers to while Utilizing TFSE. What is a practical and prefered method of heating and bringing most of these highly flamable chems up to and beyond the boiling state for any given amount of time?? SWIM only has a natural gas stove top range, and a microwave. Please advise.

Thanks again!! You guys ROCK!!!!

reeB

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    dwarfer
(esoteric)
11-06-04 01:46
No 539945
User Picture 
      ALCOHOL     

The hardware store mixed alkies seem to work fine:
check the ingredients and if it includes "water" don't buy it.
It will have some anyway, but only a trace..

=================

You could optimize safety by checking out pressurized pipe: superheated solvent threads by dwarfercrazy

dwarfer
 
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Stranger)
11-11-04 14:31
No 541024
      Wow!!!! That's one helluva neat trick!!!!     

I'm amazed at the difference, it was recommended to use a little dash of 91% IPA after first being filtered through baked epsom salt,  ...WOW!!! What an amazing difference!!! SWIM is very pleased, great yield of some whoop-ass shizzle dizzle, too.   

Thanks for the tip, surely will bee using this often!!!

reeB

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    metalgirl
(Newbee)
11-11-04 17:54
No 541052
      Questions for reeB relliM     

Nice work reeB relliM...I'd like to ask a few questions if I may.
       Firstly, how do you personally make anhydrous ammonia and then how do you get it into your fire extinguisher.
       You bleed the tank before pouring the anny into the flask. What is this bleeding for?
       The anny is poured from the extinguisher into the flask. How does the anny remain a liquid during this pouring. In my mind it should all evaporate rather quickly so I'm missing something here...
 
 
 
 
    Jamiroquai
(Stranger)
11-11-04 18:43
No 541057
      You turn the tank 90° south and fill it....     

You fill th tanks with them horiontal/on their side and never past 85% capacity. Also, you really wanna keep them upside down when storing so that the valve is on the bottom where the liquid is instead of the gas that produces the pressure.


So you basically wanna release out the liquid annie the same way it got in on it's side.

If you've never seen how it's done I recommend having someone show you instead of trial & error.

And be sure to buy some teflon tape and pipe dope to treat the threads of the valve(s).

Scuba tanks are king when it comes to small capacity storage of anhydrous. Buy a stainless teel one man and it'll last forever and a day. Fire Extinguishers have a shelf life of maybe a month if you didn't treat the threads and kept it stored standing up instead of upside down.

The annie remains a liquid while pouring because it's boiling point luckily isn't low enough to cause instant vaporiation and especially in wintertime which is why wintrtime evaps take twice to three times longer than summertime evaps.

Well unless you just fucking do it right and add to a five gallon bucket and use a broomstick to stir! hehe....


Shit don't need to cook for a set amount of time. Sooner that ammonia evaps the sooner it's done. Buckets rule.

Real men eat pussy.
 
 
 
 
    Jacked
(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
11-12-04 16:41
No 541253
      reply     

Store a tank with its valve down? That's not how the manufactures design the tanks to be stored. The valves are high pressure valves. Ammonia does not generate high pressure on the gas side anyway. 200 lbs on a warm day. The valves can withstand 2000 lbs on any-day.. Large storage tanks that are over 150 lb can be stored on there sides and will have runners to keep a tank from rolling and to keep the tube down for the liquid.. The reason a tank is only filled to 85% capacity is because of expansion of the liquid due to temperature changes around the bottle. A 100% expanded liquid volume would be very dangerous to have a liquid leave the valve at gas speeds. As the liquid expands it compresses the gas raising its pressure. One more thing if there is 200 lbs pressure at the gas end it stands to reason there will be 200 lbs plus the weight of the liquid pressing toward gravity. The liquid is under the same forces as the gas it just cant compact itself and raise its pressure however it can maintain a volume at increased pressures. (hydraulics)
Swim seen tanks strapped upside down in a system on a ship They were hard piped into the cooling system and were stored that way because of space restrictions.

Tighten Up!  (UH)
 
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Newbee)
11-12-04 17:11
No 541255
      I agree with Jacked 110%...     

Yeah, from how SWIM understands it, you should never fill the tank any more than about 3/4's the way full (..which isn't far off from what Jacked said).

metalgirl - SWIM has a good buddy that lives on a farm, and he usually has a few anhydrous ammonia pup tanks around his farm (..depending on season). SWIM gets his "annie" from the pup tanks, and will stress that it's VERY important to only use a high quality fire extinguisher with metal threads and thick steel cylinder walls, ...you DO NOT want to cheat or take any short cuts on this part of the game. "Annie" can be extremely dangerous shit to fuck around with, and SWIM also stresses the importance of having 1 or 2 gallons of water at the very least near-by any time you are messing with "annie".

What SWIM meant by "bleeding off" the tank,  ..he means that any time you have anhydrous in a tank with the lid threaded on to where it's completely sealed, it sure doesn't tank long before the tank is under enormous pressure, so before you can ever think about unscrewing the lid, you MUST slowly bleed off the air pressure from the tank, and ALWAYS STAND UPWIND whenever bleeding off pressure.

reeB

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    jboogie
(Hive Bee)
11-12-04 21:21
No 541278
User Picture 
      Dont wash w/water...     

swijb used to work at a reprographics office (this is way before birch was cool) that had tanks of AA to develop diazo reproductions, i.e. blueprints (big hint)wink. if you have a spill, clear the area. dont wash w/water. AA is an auto-refrigerant... if you add water, the AA will produce more vapor.frown flush skin after direct contact but dont dilute large amounts (or small amounts in a small space) unless you have a SCBA system. The dry vapors are somewhat explosive if they come in contact w/silver, iodine (or other halogens), hypochlorites (bleach, pool tabs) and shouldnt bee used with brass, copper, bronze, or anything galvinized. just so you know. smile

Don't you think if I had something intelligent to say, it would bee in my post?
 
 
 
 
    Jacked
(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
11-13-04 08:14
No 541349
      reply     

I just read this thread completely and it is FULL of problems and is very confusing. Not once was washing of the non polar ever brought up and as far as being dry before adding non polar is simply not true and for the pill chucking going on how the hell do you figure out how much Li or Na to use in the first place? Pill chucking should be baned from this board and any post regarding the practice should be deleted. Any solution given to problems were this method is practiced is completely based on speculation and trying to help someone pill chucking produce better results should be teaching them extraction instead of post rxn speculation... Damn!

First thing you got to remember is the average street grade shit is what a pill chucker is use to getting. When his half ass batch of poison and dope hits his blood stream he gets the best high he has ever had due to simply not knowing any better. Try and tell this guy his dope is shit and he will stand up and fight you over what he believes is true. This in turn is read by a newbee and sense it is so simple to just grind up some pills and chuck it in he's going to do just that dispute the posting of others stating the obvious. Half of the first timers don't even read past the first post on the mater.. This is the type of cooks you see on TV news shows that feed the propaganda for the war on drugs. It should be stopped cold in its tracks because it does nothing but hurt the efforts and undermined the ideals of the Hive.. This kind of posting has to be stopped, nipped at the bud of the problem even if it hurts a few feelings.

Tighten Up!  (UH)
 
 
 
 
    reeB_relliM
(Newbee)
11-14-04 09:46
No 541498
      Hold up for just a second please....     

Jacked - Y'know something, this thread was first started before the author (SWIM) had experieced any real problems in using this method, and had always had very good results.

 However, when this thread was only about a week old was about the same time frame as to when the newest of gakks hit the shelves in his area. Needless to say, the newest of gakked infested pills had foiled his next attempted batch, which is when SWIM had posted within this thread those results, and had asked for some possible answers as to why this had happened, and also wondered what SWIM could do to possibly fix it. SWIM tried to recrystalize, but that didn't seem to work either, although it could possibly bee that SWIM did something wrong, realizing that recrystalizing successfully is a science all by itself . He has since then considered that failed batch to be a complete loss.

SWIM has been doing dope for nearly 20 years (back when there was no such thing as "cut" dope), and certainly knows the difference between "excellent", "good", "average", and "bad" dope. It wasn't until about a year ago before SWIM had actually learned by watching one of his buddies use this method (...who had been using Uncle Festers 5th edition book "cold birch method")   ...it was relatively quick, easy to do, and had turned out with great results over and over again.

Now, since the introduction of the new gakks, SWIM had experienced some bad results, which in turn, had sent him on a mission. That mission was to learn how to get around this new problem, and is certainly hoping to never have these bad results happen to him again.

Uncle Festers thread, "Deconstructionist thought" had opened SWIMs eyes to a new, better way of doing things. SWIM ordered his KOH (not received it yet), and will bee using some new ideas and things he'd learned here at the hive to hopefully get even better results than SWIM has ever had to date. SWIM is excited about this, we'll just have to see what happens.

Also, whenever "Colemans Fuel" was used as the NP solvent, it was first washed 3x with equal portions of DH2O, however, when using Tolulene, it has been said that it does not need to bee water washed at all. Furthermore, SWIM had also figured that the necessity for the NH3/Li/pfed to bee dry, was simply not true as well. Whenever this method was used, the mixture was usually consistent to that of "mud" before adding the NP solvent, and the results were always good. 

The starting post of this thread stated clearly that SWIM didn't have the luxery of using an indoor lab with beekers, measuring tools, vacuums, various glass ware, etc.  From what swim understands, Lithium strips from four (4) "AA" batteries is about right for 1000 30mg red hots, and from that, SWIM thinks that one battery per 250 30mg pills is sufficient , ...does this sound about right to you? If not, please explain what you believe to bee the correct ratio. SWIM is primarily here to learn, not to teach. However if someone who might bee less knowledgable, happens to learn anything from this thread, then that is a "good" thing.


reeB

Just because the voices have stopped, does not mean that they are gone! (lol!)
 
 
 
 
    Jade
(soccer mom)
11-14-04 16:14
No 541518
User Picture 
      weigh it     

One battery to every 7 grams of psuedo.  Please note that the white pills have 60mg, red has 30mg and then consider how much of your weight is gakk when you do not clean them.  You really cannot go by the number of pills and expect it to be accurate.

There's a terrorist behind every Bush.
 
 

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